Had quite an eventful Christman party.

[Deleted member 8431]

Hi guys,

Wanted to share my Christmas celebration night as it has been quite eventful to say the least. Comments and mirrors are welcomed but but not necessary.

So we had this big family reunion at my cousin's house on the 25th. We went there pretty excited and I was extremely happy to be there since many family members that I hadn't seen in years (up to over a decade) were there. My little cousin's girl was also there (she is 6 yo and adorable) which made me even happier (I love kids).

So everything went well through the night, we've had a great supper, exchanged gifts and discussed through the whole evening. My cousin had bought beer as a gift for another cousin (fancy beer from france with glasses) and he decided to open them up right there (8% alc/vol) and started to get drunk. Now this cousin is really nice and there isn't the least bit of aggressivity in him when he is sober but that night, we saw another face of him. At some point, I had to go get some more drinks to the store for the others so I left with the car and when I came back, first thing that happened is my drunk cousin told me "good bye J-M" and shook my hand. I asked him "you're leaving?" thinking it was time for him but then realised he had just been into a serious argument with the family. So my other cousin (house owner) brought him downstairs so they can talk and my aunt went down as well. Well the drunk cousin was out-of-control. He started becoming violent with my aunt and cousin so much that we had to immobilise him on the ground. His speech was incoherent and at that point, I'm pretty sure he was in a "black out" (non conscious about what he was doing).

My little cousin's girl was crying and that made me feel extrememly bad for her as she likes us all. So anyhow, my drunk cousin got up, couldn't find his shoes so he just decided to leave with only his socks in -15°C temperature with ice and snow everywhere. We didn't want him to go like that but we didn't want to hold him in the house either as he was very unpleasant. So we let him go and called the police so we don't find him frozen to death the next day or something (his house was like 20 km from there so he would never have walked it). Patrol car was in the neighborhood so they came about a minute or so after and got my cousin who was sitting down in snow bare feet. The police officers were very cool and handled the situation extremely well. Since my cousin lives with her mother, they called her so she comes to pick him up and go home. She was actually glad we did that for her son.

That's pretty much it. I just feel bad that this had to happen in such a joyful time. The rest of the evening still went well but you know, it was kind of awkward a bit.

This is sad. What I saw is that my drunk cousin has deep wounds inside of him and drinking too much made it all come out. That's the only thing I can see because he's a very good person at the base. A very loving guy. But he has big issues. He passed many years alone in his room playing on-line games etc. so that can't be good for his mental health.

I haven't had any news since but will soon. I'll have a talk with him and see if I can be of any help. He was really unpleasant that night and violent but I know there's a reason and I know it's not "him" so to speak. So that's why I want to offer my help to him. I'm pretty sure he'll be open, otherwise, I'll have to let it go unfortunately.

Has anybody lived similar situations?

Peace.

 

[irjO]

oh yeah, i have a friend who is very nice person and friendly but after he take some drinks he becomes another person.. and its the kind of person who after started to drink the first cup he cannot stop till get drunk so.. its a symptom of a person with drinking problems.. you can talk to him and show him that he has drinking problems and its hurting the people who love him.. but if he doesn't see that then you have to try to take him in a nice way (not been rude, mostly invitations) to some rehab society where he can realize his problem.. this is my opinion of course!

 

[Voyageur]

Has anybody lived similar situations?

Peace.

Many; talk about a drug of abuse, if not in moderation, drink, can be and often is a destroyer of life and families - and the societal ripples effects from there.

Creating change, difficult externally, seems it must come from within like a shock or awakening. :(

Sorry this was to be at a time of your family gathering. Hope your cousin can find it in himself to follow the threads of why and understand the emotional chemistry behind it all.

 

[Buddy]

Has anybody lived similar situations?

Yeah, when I left home and joined the military. Drinking get-togethers is how I started learning more about a social 'persona' and how it can cover up an individual seemingly fragmented by unresolved issues from his past.

Have you yet ran across any of our threads or posts featuring Dr. Gabor Maté and his work with addicts? As Maté suggests, don't address the drinking; don't ask why the drinking; drinking isn't the real problem; rather, ask why the pain?

And with regard to your desire to help, I wouldn't push in any way or really expect him to open up with you so easily. You may be able to serve him best if you start by simply letting him know you're there to talk with because you have a non-judging ear to offer should he be so inclined.

At least this has been my tactic, so FWIW.

 

[aragorn]

Sorry to hear about your experience, JayMark.

To tell you the truth, that could have been me, some 20'years ago. Although I never got violent, getting drunk made me do all kinds of stupid things.

I've given my past behavior, and the need to get drunk a lot of thought ever since I 'got back on track' and stopped drinking (ca 15 years ago). What I've come to realize, and this doesn't necessarily apply to your cousin, is that getting drunk was a way to:

- At least for a moment, stop the anguish, the tormenting and negative emotions and thinking loops
- At least for a moment, be 'more like others', funny, talkative, assertive etc
- At least for a moment, not caring about what others thought of me (I always felt like I was nothing compared to others, what they had achieved)
- Any negative experience, like a breaking up with a girl friend, had to be buffered, numbed, and 'comforted' with alcohol

Well, you get the picture. As Buddy wrote, the problem isn't the drinking, but what's behind the depression and/or anguish. In my case it was probably a mix of depression, stress, and narcissistic woundings (with a portion of passive aggressive behavior).

Thinking of what helped me, I would say that the most important factors where:

- Finding someone who listened to me and my problems, someone with empathy and 'common sense'
- Finding something meaningful to do, having an aim in life
- Quit the booze, and harmful diet and life style
- Understanind my upbringing, and what it did to me

So, maybe you could meet with your cousin for coffee (no beer!) and just listen to what's on his mind and talk to him. The problem, I've noticed, with many people who 'flip out' while drunk is that when they sober up and get back to their daily routines, they smooth things over in their mind saying "Oh, what was I talking about last night (while drunk)! My life is completely okay, I feel great. Forget about what I said..." Well, there isn't much you can do about that, except offer a listening ear if and when they want to share their problems, while sober.

 

[mabar]

Has anybody lived similar situations?
Peace.

Yes many times, on Xmas holidays with family members from my father's line, but they use stronger beverages, being mezcal or tequila 32-60% alc/vol, in shots, or in cocktails or with other kinds like beer, wine, brandy, vodka, whisky etc…, they called themselves normal ones because they just drink in special events, or in weekends and so had done friends from high school, university and from work. I supposed that's why I did not get enthusiastic into “learning” to drink alcohol. They (family members) had not get violent, oh! But they get so intransigent, stubborn, way too happy and loving, depressive etc., all in one night.

I once get stuck with two drunk uncles, I was in my way to get into my room, and at the living room they there were, and they spot me and I spot them. One was staying at our house, the other come for a visit, and my father was already asleep (??). Fortunately a cousin was going to came for his father so he was not going to drive The other was going to sleep at the first floor and I did not consider to be right leaving them drinking all night long. Images on my mind of my uncle bumping in the stairs being too drunk help me to stay there until one was at his bed and the other was with his son.

Sober as Aragorn says, other way is like talking to a cartoon.

 

[loreta]

Has anybody lived similar situations?

Peace.

Absolutely. My brother in law was a very nice guy but since he started to drink he was a monster. Extremely violent, one day he punched my husband in the face. He was living with his father and when he had his "crisis" his father was forced to leave the house because of the danger. Some times the police came, take him but the day after everything was the same. My brother in law was a very unhappy person but he was also a person who did not want to change, to take care of himself. So the alcohol took care of his brain. Alcohol kills brain cells. When my father in law died, he went to live in a house who rented rooms for people who had problems. Unfortunately in this house lived another crazy person: one day this guy who was a pyromaniac started a fire and there my brother in law died.

Alcoholics are very manipulative.

 

[supriyanoel]

I was invited to a party where I knew only one person. Before going I was very nervous, almost in pain, and if I drank I would had surely had a few beforehand. I don't drink anymore and was wondering the cause. Maybe fearful of meeting new folks, especially eating ketogenic for only 3 weeks? I didn't know. Got all dressed, sequins ,all in black and a white cape. Looked good in my estimation. Walking in my friend was seated in jeans and a sweater, when I had previously asked if people were getting dressed up. Red flag #1. The 3 others walked in and voila, one of the women was someone I know through the grapevine, as owning a "spiritual" bookstore.I never felt good vibes from this person.Upon meeting I was friendly. Her eyes immediately shot daggers thru me and I accepted them sailing straight on through. I vowed to stay stupid throughout, and was not getting into any controversy with any hooha thing I heard. The only salad I was interacting with was the one with lettuce in it.I knew the word salad came, I smiled, shut up, and drank distilled water Thank God I don't drink alcohol!These conversations were ripe fodder for my rebuttals! Someone said "oh, you're a psychic right Noel?" Absolutly not, I know nothing, I said. Cut it dead in its unnecessary tracks and changed the subject. We started talking about animals, but Madame X, Ill call her from the Spirit store was not having it. She announced looking directly at me that the whole world changed in Dec. 22, and we were now in a number 5 cycle and some more gobbledygook about the Mayans. I didn't really tune in the rest as I was looking at the top of her head as she slatheredgravy on to her bread while emphasizing that it was gonna be real good! she was challenging me to a response. I said that it sounded incredible.Wow! I didn't goad her on or add any real thoughts, as she is absolutely entitled to say anything she believes. She was looking forsome food, as this one was hungry. She, was like that woman in the movie"Poltergeist" and jabba the Hut combined and scowling. I thought of all the things I could of said, asked myself why I would say them, and breathed myself through it. I was gracious. I will say this was a change for me.In the past I would of had her head spinning and body shaking. And IMO, yes she was vile, repellent,smug,shaking from Parkinson's, vicious,troubled, all these things, but so what? I've been things I didn't like either.I did.not need to let myself be attacked to the best of my ability, but most of all I didn't need to be right. And I didn't feel sorry for her. I observed as she went on boisterously and thought," Reality TV." The last person I told about this scoffed, and actually got a show. But it would of been mean for me to say it. That last person got it because she was a sideshow, anomaly. And whether she embraces it laughingly to the bank, it is a misuse of power, and knowing this I shut up.I began to feel very ill realizing I couldn't eat what I ordered. Even the string beans had something poisonous on it, and had to excuse myself. I did enjoy some of it, but my previous feelings were right on. The lesson was trust them. Simple. If you don't feel well to an inordinate degree, you stay put. I got home in time to grab the 2 doggies at midnight, ring the bell and cry my eyes out with joy on the countdown.All in a nights work. I didn't leave unscathed, though, from all of it.Not all of those arrows went through me, I am still 3DSTS. The KetogenicDiet releases the egos attachments much easier and quicker. Although I could be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 8431]

Thank you very much for your sharings guys.

Have you yet ran across any of our threads or posts featuring Dr. Gabor Maté and his work with addicts? As Maté suggests, don't address the drinking; don't ask why the drinking; drinking isn't the real problem; rather, ask why the pain?

Very good advice. I've been through two serious therapies/rehabs in the past concerning my own addictions so I do have quite a good background in that sense. Using is what I will usually describe as a symptom of a deeper [emotional] problem. That's the part people "see" in general and focus on. Adressing the issue directly to a concerned person might only result in creating tensions and uncomfort as it is what people will genererally only talk about. You have to show the person that you're not there to criticize the drinking/drug habbit.

And with regard to your desire to help, I wouldn't push in any way or really expect him to open up with you so easily. You may be able to serve him best if you start by simply letting him know you're there to talk with because you have a non-judging ear to offer should he be so inclined.

I hear ya. No use in trying to force help on to another person, that would be going against their free will. It is not a STO's job to determine the needs of others. I'll let him know that I understand, can relate and am there in the case he needs to talk.

Well, you get the picture. As Buddy wrote, the problem isn't the drinking, but what's behind the depression and/or anguish. In my case it was probably a mix of depression, stress, and narcissistic woundings (with a portion of passive aggressive behavior).

You are both right. This is actually a classic mistake people make. They only point the drinking/using problem and behaviors that come along. They never care to try to locate the root of it hence why it often leads to more trouble and aggravation. Kind of the same thing that is going on with out entire society as a matter of fact. People only point the symptoms (politics, economy, war, crime, povrety) but do not realise that the core problem has to do with psychopaths and what's going on in their "minds".

So, maybe you could meet with your cousin for coffee (no beer!) and just listen to what's on his mind and talk to him.

No beer. I had everclear grain alcohol in mind instead. It's colorless. Wait... ;D

Joke aside you are right. I'll offer an ear (not beer) but won't be there to pull out the worms out of the can (don't know if that expression makes any sense).

The problem, I've noticed, with many people who 'flip out' while drunk is that when they sober up and get back to their daily routines, they smooth things over in their mind saying "Oh, what was I talking about last night (while drunk)! My life is completely okay, I feel great. Forget about what I said..." Well, there isn't much you can do about that, except offer a listening ear if and when they want to share their problems, while sober.

Good observation I must say. I'm pretty sure he felt bad the next day but chances are he dosen't remember much and will probably just dismiss it and put the weight of the problem on alcohol alone (what have I done, I shouldn't have drank so much, everything is ok) as you say.

So yep, will offer an ear for sure. He's almost in his mid 20's, quite shy, has the heart at the right place, a very nice and loving person, artistic and very creative/original. His mother is an alcoholic though and have been for as long as I can remember. She is a nice person but she drinks and it can go out of hand as well. He's been really isolated most of his life, passed the last decade of so palying online games like crazy, living on welfare etc. So it's not really hard to figure out why things aren't so sweet you know. That sort of lifestyle can change a person for sure. Real-life social situations become very diffrent and sometimes, the desire to alter the way we experience them by drinking/using in order perhaps to render it closer to the one we are used to (virtual) might manifest itself, or so I'm starting to think.

Will be there, won't judge, won't put pressure.

Thanks guys, always a pleasure to share with you both!

And thanks to the others as well!

Peace.

 

[truth seeker]

While offering to lend an ear may be a good way to go, I'd just say to try to be aware of any savior programs that may come up in you. There's nothing wrong at all with being there for someone but sometimes, when people are very wounded, they can end up living their lives in victim mode. What this essentially means is that they may have difficulty taking responsibility for their own pain and can unwittingly end up feeding on others. So maybe try to pay attention to what they do more than what they say. For what it's worth.

 

[Deleted member 8431]

While offering to lend an ear may be a good way to go, I'd just say to try to be aware of any savior programs that may come up in you. There's nothing wrong at all with being there for someone but sometimes, when people are very wounded, they can end up living their lives in victim mode. What this essentially means is that they may have difficulty taking responsibility for their own pain and can unwittingly end up feeding on others. So maybe try to pay attention to what they do more than what they say. For what it's worth.

Very good advise truth seeker. I've been in a "victim mode" for a very long time as a matter of fact so that's why what you say does ring a bell to me right on the spot!

Thanks for reminding!

Peace.

 

[Redrock12]

Has anybody lived similar situations?

Yes, I have, personally. And while I agree that a drinking problem is a symptom of a larger one, it is also one that, imo, must be dealt with before the larger one, whatever it is, can be dealt with effectively.
Excessive alcohol consumption, ie the amount consumed, varies from individual to individual. There are so many variables involved that it is literally impossible to predict how any one person will react at any given moment to drinking. Stress, diet, physical condition, age, or any combination of these, are just a few of the factors that can influence one's reactions.
In my own case, overall, the older I got, the fewer drinks it took to bring on a blackout. So I consider alcoholism, to be a progressive disease. The longer you drink, the worse it gets.
At least, this is my experience.
During my last drinking spree, which was 34 years ago, and without getting into the details, I experienced a blackout so terrifying that I immediately stopped drinking any alcoholic beverages, and have not had any since.
I attended AA continuously for a whole year, going to meetings seven days a week and staying away from people and places where drinking was involved. There are lots of things wrong with AA as an organization, but I have to credit it with getting a leg up on sobriety and modifying my destructive lifestyle. And I am not recommending that AA works for everyone, or that you have to attend AA to stop drinking, but, nevertheless, it did work for me.
So I guess I'm saying, based on my own experience, that nothing happens until one gets rid of the alcohol. No different than getting rid of the heroin, cocaine, or presecription addiction, before any therapy can be effective.
But of course, this is just my own observation and experience, fwiw.
Hope this contributes to the discussion.


mod: quote fixed

 

[supriyanoel]

By really observing the behavior, and not necessarily the substance ingested and imbibed, you can see a lot if you are not in a state of numbness yourself. Which I'm not suggesting. I would drink a few glasses socially, while slugging from a flask in the bathroom, hidden from all prying eyes. I would always know if someone was on to me.I would then distract them, feeling caught and guilty, biding my time for a safe getaway.Of which we know doesn't exist. Watch the behavior carefully. Addicts are actors and liars, so you will see much if you know what to look for.Change in personality and demeanor, for better or worse. Most non-alcoholic folk get tired after 1 or 2 drinks.But not all.