Hepatitis advice for FOAF

ocean59

Dagobah Resident
Hi all,

A good friend of mine called recently, seeking opinions on some advice she was being asked for. I wasn't really sure the best answer, and thought I'd ask here.

A man in his 40s suffering from hepatitis, MRSA, and likely various other autoimmune disorders recently collapsed and ended up in the hospital, unable to move. Doctors says his liver is all but toast - maybe 10% function remaining, full blown cirrhosis, and probably only weeks to live. The hepatitis is due to decades of alcohol (and likely other substance) consumption, and his diet has been atrocious at best for the last 10-15 years.

Apparently a group of 'friends' have descended on him and his situation, and the person calling the shots is a hardcore paleo-diet promoter (perhaps to the extreme, and/or in an out of balance fashion). She wants to transition him to a diet of primarily grass fed beef, and some fermented dairy products, and eggs. First she called my friend asking for advice, and my friend called me. The people involved in helping this person don't necessarily know what the best approach is at this point, but are banking on a paleo solution, and possibly no vegetables also.

My good friend, who is quite knowledgeable about diet and health (and always open to new information) was conflicted after hearing about all this.

She thinks that while the paleo diet (when done properly) can make a lot of sense, for someone with almost zero liver function, she was gravely concerned that the added stress of the animal fats would simply be too much to process, and that some detoxing should firstly take place. This being in the form of a temporarily vegan diet, high in healthy fats, along with various green shakes and supplementation appropriate for liver detoxing.

My point to her was that detoxing and a paleo diet go hand in hand, and at the very least *some* natural animal fats should be immediately introduced, just to see how he would react. Being that hepatitis is a severe inflammation of the liver, simply removing all the inflammatory foods and drinks would begin a detox, and he should not be deprived of natural and proper fatty meats (possibly for the first time in over a decade) when his body may need that fuel the most. But of course, I made clear that I really know very little about this and am also no expert - and so said I would ask some folks of like mind for any ideas.

It sounds like the person making the decisions is of the opinion that grass fed beef is a cure all for everything all by itself (easy to understand that!). My friend and I both agree that regardless, supplementation is also going to be key, should this fellow even make it more than a few more weeks. I emphasized Sylmarin milk thistle, NAC, mega-dosing Vit C, Enzymes/bile and Magnesium for starters...she agreed and chimed in with burdock, urva ursi, and a couple other herbal remedies. We also agree that dairy is a BAD option right now, and probably the eggs too. Gluten and sugar need also be removed, which is currently the plan, or so she's heard.

Her main question is - when someone is as far gone as this person is, how wise is it to transition the person immediately to animal fats when their liver is all but done for? And if anyone has any other advice in general, it would be appreciated. While I don't know the person myself, I do feel for him and his family. And it is nice to hear people asking the right types of questions for once, I just don't have all the answers!
 
Jason (ocean59) said:
...Her main question is - when someone is as far gone as this person is, how wise is it to transition the person immediately to animal fats when their liver is all but done for? And if anyone has any other advice in general, it would be appreciated. While I don't know the person myself, I do feel for him and his family. And it is nice to hear people asking the right types of questions for once, I just don't have all the answers!

While a paleo diet can certainly help the body & mind, if one is healthy enough to survive the initial induction, it won't necessarily address the underlying causes of high-level self-destructive behavior. I am also concerned that I didn't see anything in your post suggesting that this person was asking for help, let alone to be "saved." What is really going on here, I wonder.
 
Megan said:
While a paleo diet can certainly help the body & mind, if one is healthy enough to survive the initial induction, it won't necessarily address the underlying causes of high-level self-destructive behavior. I am also concerned that I didn't see anything in your post suggesting that this person was asking for help, let alone to be "saved." What is really going on here, I wonder.

Yes, it does sound like people swooping in uninvited long after the point of no return. I think this person made the choice to die years ago and his body is just now catching up. I have no idea if a change of diet at this point would do any good at all, even if he really wanted to do it, and get clean, and fight for his life. Not enough data to know, but my sense is it's past time for that sort of thing.
 
Megan said:
While a paleo diet can certainly help the body & mind, if one is healthy enough to survive the initial induction, it won't necessarily address the underlying causes of high-level self-destructive behavior.
If they have made the choice to die (at some level), then changing diet would probably only speed the process up....leaving a black mark against the diet among those left alive.
 
That this is a 'friend of a friend of a friend' makes it pretty difficult for me to really know what's going on, thus my instinct was to try and find the information being requested.

I totally agree with both of you - and I did raise that point in the phone call - multiple times. It really bugged me that it wasn't being discussed. If the guy is not willing to make any changes, and has never shown any interest in same - then it doesn't really matter what happens at this point. Even if it works, what is to stop the guy from returning to his previous lifestyle?

The answer given was that this dude is about to die, cannot move, and people are going to do their best to help him no matter what. And this hospitilization is the worst manifestation of his life - so if by some chance he makes it, maybe just maybe this would be the wake up call he needs. Or, maybe it is time to check out. I really don't know - and neither does the friend of friend.

I just felt there seemed to be some misconceptions, both from the person at the scene helping, and from the person whom she is asking advice from. Both want nothing but to help this person who can no longer help himself, and both sincerely want to know what the best approach would be, regardless of circumstance.

As for the free will component - I'm just not in a position to know, though my instincts tell me it is likely past the point of far gone.

On a dietary/scientific level, I thought it was an interesting question - is there a point after which so much damage has been done that an intermediary step should be introduced before a paleo transition.

Best case scenario - he gets better and makes changes in his life. This is a longshot, and without a proper approach, unlikely. But at least he may get a few more weeks to spend with family and friend, and may be in a slightly clearer state of mind in any event.

Worst case scenario - He doesn't get better and dies (already the guaranteed diagnosis from the medical establishment).

So, since I am so far removed from the situation, I figure it couldn't hurt to try and find the information being requested, and perhaps such could help - but in reality I may never know the end result here.
 
RedFox said:
If they have made the choice to die (at some level), then changing diet would probably only speed the process up....leaving a black mark against the diet among those left alive.

It sounds like the person in charge is gung-ho paleo, beyond convinced of its magical healing powers to cure everything. Obviously there is more to diet and health than just that, but the person she is asking for advice from isn't very well versed in paleo knowledge (this is why she asked me for help/opinions/thoughts). IMO, putting the guy on a vegan diet and attempting a more intense detox in those circumstances would be way more than the body can handle, especially without proper fuel. But at the same time going 100% beef may not be the answer at this point either.

It is pretty clear that the destruction was caused by alcohol, drugs, and diet - I don't think anyone involved with the situation is confused on that point. That is clearly what has been and is killing him - anything at this point is a long shot, last chance attempt at saving a life. This is why I couldn't just say 'sorry, until I know he really wants to live, I can't help you with any education.' But I also don't know enough myself to really clarify one way or the other, this is why I thought I would network about it.
 
I must agree with all of the above comments about this particular person's condition. But for hepatitis C in a person without all of the other near terminal conditions and probable emotional baggage, we have had some success using the nano-catalytic silver hydrosols which we distribute at lifesilver.com.

In the late 90s I was reunited with an old friend who had become a quite good doctor of chiropractic. She had contracted Hep C from a blood transfusion during a difficult child birth. She was on a liver transplant waiting list. I had a case of ASAP (10 ppm) shipped to her, and at her next blood work everyone involved was amazed at the dramatic reduction of her viral load. A couple of years later, when the stronger 30 ppm hydrosol became available, she switched to that. She has been taken off the transplant waiting list and now leads a normal life. I do not know that she is completely free of the infection, but the symptoms are negligible.

We have the clinical studies to demonstrate that these silver preparations can completely cure hepatitis B.

I contracted Hepatitis A (infectious) from gulf coast oysters in 1970. The only therapy was bed rest, water (continuous hydration) and simple carbs. No fats or proteins. The antithesis of the paleo diet, which leads me to suspect that a paleo diet might not be the best therapy for someone whose damaged liver cannot process fats.
 
Thanks Rabelais for sharing your experiences, I will pass the info along anonymously to those involved with helping this guy.
 
Jason said:
It is pretty clear that the destruction was caused by alcohol, drugs, and diet - I don't think anyone involved with the situation is confused on that point. That is clearly what has been and is killing him - anything at this point is a long shot, last chance attempt at saving a life. This is why I couldn't just say 'sorry, until I know he really wants to live, I can't help you with any education.' But I also don't know enough myself to really clarify one way or the other, this is why I thought I would network about it.

I think that your FOAF has first to decide whether he wants to live. Nothing can be done or will work unless that basic question has been decided, by him and him alone. I also agree with anart that he may well have decided not to live, and his body is slowly catching up to that decision.

If he does decide to live, any changes to diet and lifestyle would probably need to be approached in an extremely slow, cautious and methodical manner. But it really does sound like it's too late, and the friends who have gathered round him have been galvanised into action by their own fear of mortality.
 
Endymion said:
...I think that your FOAF has first to decide whether he wants to live. Nothing can be done or will work unless that basic question has been decided, by him and him alone. I also agree with anart that he may well have decided not to live, and his body is slowly catching up to that decision...

When I learned (in 2007) that I had cancer, that is what I had to do. It wasn't a quick decision. But after some time I decided that I wanted to live, and I did.
 
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