Hitler and WWII

millions of German women were raped by Soviets and others
Very good post, except I wonder how much of the above claim is true. It is one of those topics that was hushed up after WW2, but it seems that quite a few of the researchers bringing light to this topic may have exaggerated as well - maybe partly due to anti-Soviet sentiments during the Cold War.
 
Very good post, except I wonder how much of the above claim is true. It is one of those topics that was hushed up after WW2, but it seems that quite a few of the researchers bringing light to this topic may have exaggerated as well - maybe partly due to anti-Soviet sentiments during the Cold War.

Good catch, this is one thing I never looked into and just pulled from vague memory. Very likely that there is an element of anti-Soviet propaganda in there. The thing is, horrific killings of civilians and rapes, often on a large scale, happen in these kinds of chaotic (post-)war situations, on all sides. So it's easy to point to certain atrocities of one side as a form of propaganda, even if they are true. All sides tend to engage in it, so it's very hard to see through the fog of war. There are some historians for example who doubt the numbers of Soviet casualties during WWII, claiming that while they were no doubt very high, they weren't as high as claimed and that Stalin mixed in the deaths from his own cleansing operations. I haven't looked into these things, might be just historians being biased against Russia, but then again the Russians have their own WWII mythology, like everybody else, so you would have to deeply look into it to get an accurate reading of the situation.

Generally, part of the problem with many of the newly-minted Hitler fans on X and TikTok is that every participant in both World Wars has their own version, their own myth (the Brits, the Poles, the Russians, the Americans etc.), where each nation paints itself as some combination of hero and victim. Whether such narratives are right or wrong, or to what degree, is another matter of course. Usually national myths are quick to point out the atrocities of others, but slow seeing their own atrocities and complicity, or acknowledging the grievances of the other side. We naturally feel this is some sort of zero-sum game, where the other side's suffering somehow diminishes our own, and our own atrocities justify our own suffering, so we rather don't want to look. But we know here that there is a wider game plan at work that seeks to sow chaos, division and pathology everywhere. And we know that psychopaths know no borders or nationalities.

Now the problem is that the Germans were denied airing their version of events, including their grievances, whether about WWI or WWII. It was simply suppressed at all cost. And this isn't healthy: it should have been out in the open, to be discussed and known. Understand it, criticize it etc. Then perhaps people would have come to terms with the nuances and the different sides of the story and wouldn't be so shocked when they suddenly encounter the revisionist story and go full "Hitler was good".

It's understandable I suppose, because people come to it having this absurd propaganda story in mind that Hitler was just a madman, and Germans inexplicably followed him into his insanity. Then they learn that Hitler actually made some good points and are shocked - as if the whole thing could have worked out the way it did without him making some good points! They learn, for example, that Hitler didn't wake up one morning and decided to invade Poland just because, but that there were massive grievances of the ethnic Germans in Poland who were suddenly cut off from Germany after Versailles, and the Poles did everything they could to make them suffer in their own grandiose ambitions, fueled by the Brits who actually wanted the war and to escalate it, and that Hitler actually made reasonable offers for peace that they probably should have accepted. And so on. It's almost as if Versailles was designed to cause conflict and blow up Europe...

The fact is there is always another side: and like all others, the German version paints itself as the victim, too. Again, if this had been allowed to be aired and discussed, people wouldn't be so surprised that this other version exists and could deal with it without suddenly becoming Nazi-lovers.

Another thing is that since the German version of events from 1914 to 1945 was suppressed, at this point the argument against Hitler pretty much boils down to "Hitler evil, because Jews and racism". But this is not enough to counter the Hitler apologists (for one thing, everyone was a racist back then, and ethnic cleansings weren't invented by Germany). We actually have lost our knowledge about all this, and the ability to develop a nuanced, grown-up take. And this makes it easy for the TikTok Nazis to capture the imagination of a whole generation who think "well, they sure lied about Covid and pretty much everything else, and turns out that Hitler was a hero too".

It's funny though that the Nazi defenders also are the ones who hated the whole Covid regime. But if you know about life in Germany under the Nazis, while yes, it was a huge relief for many Germans that the Nazis finally did something about Versailles (although why they were funded from abroad to pull it all off is another matter), this was Covid on steroids where you weren't allowed to deviate from the party line, had to put up with dumb and cruel bullies telling you what to do and what to think, and so on. Hitler was no Putin, and not even a Trump, or Napoleon. He was an unimpressive guy who was duped and puppeteered, and ultimately allowed Germany to be destroyed because of his defects.
 
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It's funny though that the Nazi defenders also are the ones who hated the whole Covid regime. But if you know about life in Germany under the Nazis, while yes, it was a huge relief for many Germans that the Nazis finally did something about Versailles (although why they were funded from abroad to pull it all off is another matter), this was Covid on steroids where you weren't allowed to deviate from the party line, had to put up with dumb and cruel bullies telling you what to do and what to think, and so on. Hitler was no Putin, and not even a Trump, or Napoleon. He was an unimpressive guy who was duped and puppeteered, and ultimately allowed Germany to be destroyed because of his defects.
As Laura and the C's use to say, there is a program for everyone. I know good folks who stood they ground agains the BS during the Covid trials but are falling short on topics like climate change for example, believing the conspiracy nonsense that current weather and earth changes are caused by the 3d PTB mighty technology.

When trying to debunk these kinds of nonsense they'll politely listen while sticking to the lies they've been fed up by the useful idiots or duped folks who are handled directly or indirectly by the PTB to sow disinformation and hide the real truth.

The fact is that without a network of like minded souls, while being blind of your own weaknesses, programs and blind spots you can be easily manipulated by 3d and 4d cointelpro agents and even be used against other truth seekers as a trojan horse to sidetrack or harm them as well. This is a spiritual war in every sense of the word, but, many good souls aren't aware of this fact yet.

Sorry for going off topic a bit here. Just some thoughts I was thinking about lately.
 
Generally, part of the problem with many of the newly-minted Hitler fans on X and TikTok is that every participant in both World Wars has their own version, their own myth (the Brits, the Poles, the Russians, the Americans etc.), where each nation paints itself as some combination of hero and victim.
Yes, definitely. I grew up in the USSR and then in Germany and lived in the US later, so I am able to see all these perspectives and where they turned into myths and whitewashing of history. Germany is certainly an exception, being pretty much the only country in the world that was put on a cultural guilt trip over what happened in WW2. Not even Japan or Austria did that to this extent.

And while it can be argued that the "never again"-mantra that was repeated in Germany had some positive effects, it seems that by now even that was twisted into "everything right-wing is nazi, support only the insane and totalitarian leftist ideas". I still have some hope for Germany though, maybe even more than the UK currently.
 
Jim, we all know about the events leading up to WW2 and how the "axis" powers were as complicit, or moreso, as Germany in fomenting the war, and the geopolitical reasons for the war. Like I said, at the very least, Hitler was a dupe of Western (and other) powers. I see no benefit in trying to rehabilitate him beyond that.
Exactly, and strangely I’ve not seen a single reference to WW1 and the state of Germany following it. There was an opportunity for him to step into. Without that, the dark forces feeding Hitler for this test run would not have had a populace to build his army and industry. I highly suggest this article by Paul Craig Robert’s (which SOTT featured not long ago;
Germany Did Not Start World War II |

Hitler was a high wind blown into an already out of control firestorm. To me it’s the iconography, the symbolism, and the imagery which has been fed and cultivated by the media in the years since that the Hitler trope has become what it has. It’s been mentioned in this thread how many Jews died in Russian programs. It could actually be more in total than the Holocaust’s numbers. Not to mention there are many who believe those numbers were greater inflated as has virtually everything in Jewish history and mythology. The Cs have said WW2 was a test run, and they said Hitler was driven by dark forces, but I don’t recall them saying that he was the prime mover of WW2. Just a cog in a huge STS machine. But in the final analysis, was he really any better or worse than Stalin, or did he just have a better costume? And the costume and character and inflated role in a war that had multiple villains (in fact England could be considered the biggest villain of the war from one perspective) that is driving this TikTok resurgence of the character as some sort of Che Guevara T-shirt of the new generation?
 
But in the final analysis, was he really any better or worse than Stalin, or did he just have a better costume? And the costume and character and inflated role in a war that had multiple villains (in fact England could be considered the biggest villain of the war from one perspective) that is driving this TikTok resurgence of the character as some sort of Che Guevara T-shirt of the new generation?
It would be rather ironic, or perhaps not, if his ideas became rather popular once again.. if there was a test run, then the real program is to be run eventually, yes?

And drawing a comparison between the state of Germany in the 20s and 30s and today in the West at least, maybe we're not that far off from landing in similar circumstances, polarized society, broken economies, a carefully placed immigrant populace in most countries, someone to blame for everything. Perhaps it could also be seen as a sign of how the mind of humanity under pressure works, extreme measures become more attractive the longer the pressure is on, individually and on a macro scale.

There's perhaps another angle on the sudden fascination, and it's Israel, and the association that people in general make with jews and the actions of the zionist state, on the one hand.. yes every IDF soldier is jewish, and most every resident of Israel is also.. but the two, despite their close relation aren't entirely mutually exclusive. But human beings, we tend to be reductionists, so information about jewish involvement in most world events, and atop most global corporations, perhaps gets associated with jews in general period. Which is halfway wrong, but right enough for people to associate Hitler with holocaust and the prospect of removing a bad influence from positions of power in the world, looking less shocking considering the lens through which it is looked at, that is, the recognition of who may be pulling the strings of power in the world.

But, regarding Hitler himself, I'm sure there's quite a bit more that went on with him, and I am certain he has been unfairly demonized, but so has Putin, but Putin's actions match his words precisely, and I think that is the measure one should use when talking about nuanced individuals. Russia and Ukraine, relative to Germany and Poland, and what that meant for polish people but specially for German people, you could easily determine how much care Hitler had for the German people, even if he thought he meant it, in some pathological way, in truth.. he had no qualms about sacrificing Germany for the greatness of Hitler.

And perhaps that is the one angle we can lend to the historic revision, that is, when looking at history we should understand certain events in the context of the time in which they took place, and not take our current sensibilities with us to look at it. However, psychological knowledge and a more complete understanding of the inner workings of pathologies is warranted as a tool to explore historical characters, as it remains unemotional I think.

And perhaps that's yet another angle to understand the current phenomena, the human tendency to not look at situations with a nuanced perspective and immediately seek to fully adopt a figure because they may have one aspect which agrees with our worldview, to make them fit in a box that they may not fit in at all. Sadly, because of that tendency, to write narratives to choices already made by our elephants, identifying or finding sense in some of Hitler's words would start a process of writing sense to the rest of his character, and that's a slippery slope.
 
It would be rather ironic, or perhaps not, if his ideas became rather popular once again.. if there was a test run, then the real program is to be run eventually, yes?

And drawing a comparison between the state of Germany in the 20s and 30s and today in the West at least, maybe we're not that far off from landing in similar circumstances, polarized society, broken economies, a carefully placed immigrant populace in most countries, someone to blame for everything. Perhaps it could also be seen as a sign of how the mind of humanity under pressure works, extreme measures become more attractive the longer the pressure is on, individually and on a macro scale.

There's perhaps another angle on the sudden fascination, and it's Israel, and the association that people in general make with jews and the actions of the zionist state, on the one hand.. yes every IDF soldier is jewish, and most every resident of Israel is also.. but the two, despite their close relation aren't entirely mutually exclusive. But human beings, we tend to be reductionists, so information about jewish involvement in most world events, and atop most global corporations, perhaps gets associated with jews in general period. Which is halfway wrong, but right enough for people to associate Hitler with holocaust and the prospect of removing a bad influence from positions of power in the world, looking less shocking considering the lens through which it is looked at, that is, the recognition of who may be pulling the strings of power in the world.

But, regarding Hitler himself, I'm sure there's quite a bit more that went on with him, and I am certain he has been unfairly demonized, but so has Putin, but Putin's actions match his words precisely, and I think that is the measure one should use when talking about nuanced individuals. Russia and Ukraine, relative to Germany and Poland, and what that meant for polish people but specially for German people, you could easily determine how much care Hitler had for the German people, even if he thought he meant it, in some pathological way, in truth.. he had no qualms about sacrificing Germany for the greatness of Hitler.

And perhaps that is the one angle we can lend to the historic revision, that is, when looking at history we should understand certain events in the context of the time in which they took place, and not take our current sensibilities with us to look at it. However, psychological knowledge and a more complete understanding of the inner workings of pathologies is warranted as a tool to explore historical characters, as it remains unemotional I think.

And perhaps that's yet another angle to understand the current phenomena, the human tendency to not look at situations with a nuanced perspective and immediately seek to fully adopt a figure because they may have one aspect which agrees with our worldview, to make them fit in a box that they may not fit in at all. Sadly, because of that tendency, to write narratives to choices already made by our elephants, identifying or finding sense in some of Hitler's words would start a process of writing sense to the rest of his character, and that's a slippery slope.
I’m reminded of a friend I had in high school in the early 1980s. He was from Augsburg and moved to Southern California as a boy. He used to sit in his room and listen to albums of recordings of Hitler’s speeches. He didn’t hate Jews per se, but referred always to “dirty Jewish lies”. He once donned a full Nazi officer’s uniform (which he was proud to have in his possession) and picketed the Simon Wiesenthal Museum when he was 15. But he revered the Fuhrer as the savior of Germany. A few years later on he switched from death metal to Grateful Dead and became a full on peace loving hippie. He remained my friend until he died of drug addiction in 2008. But yeah, of all the people I grew up with, I cannot recall one who evolved from such extremes over so short a time. Had he lived long enough for me to pass it to him, I honestly think he’d have been deeply affected by The Wave. He would’ve found a home here.
 
He remained my friend until he died of drug addiction in 2008. But yeah, of all the people I grew up with, I cannot recall one who evolved from such extremes over so short a time.
I'm sorry to learn your friend passed away, although it does sound like he may have carried some extremes into his change of lifestyle, or at least he may have been struggling with something for a long time.
 
I'm sorry to learn your friend passed away, although it does sound like he may have carried some extremes into his change of lifestyle, or at least he may have been struggling with something for a long time.
Well back in high school, we did a lot of acid trips. Usually to the mountains or the desert. It was a vision quest sort of. We were searching the boundaries and reading Castaneda. I actually think the death of my Jewish father, of whom he’d grown quite fond, affected him profoundly. He wept uncontrollably when I told him he’d passed. I’d never seen him like that. He always maintained an air of stoicism and indifference. But my dad’s death really shook him to his core. I think it changed him. I at a certain point turned my focus to my band, while still practicing Olympic level drinking. He on the other hand pursued similar drinking but accompanied by methamphetamine. I was also in much better physical condition from years of long distance backpacking, whereas he was a bartender and just continued to get thinner and more frail as the years went by. But yeah, he burned his candle at both ends until it consumed him. I agree though that it probably stemmed from his coming to grips with the realities of his Fuhrer, and how in his youth he held that Barbadian in such reverence.
 

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