House and mine disintegration

[Anamarija]

Maybe. I have the desire to explore that part of me (I love psychology in general)

Do you have a wish to explore emotions from practical experience or just theoretical?

but the problem is that I have the feeling that some forces also have the desire to stop me in doing that.

As Seven of Nine says: Please, explain!

p.s. my dreams from last night was that I was riding a horse, that was very interesting because I have never dream this before. Maybe that means that I'm pushing to hard on some things, because I couldn't control easily my horse and I want it.

p.s. do you know some good thread about arguing, how to argue properly? That's my issue this days. I don't want to fight, don't care for arguing (even this could easily be my buffer, but if this is buffer I don't see the point in arguing), but if I don't argue it looks like I don't care.

 

[Persej]

Do you have a wish to explore emotions from practical experience or just theoretical?

Both.

As Seven of Nine says: Please, explain!

It's Hybrid Wars on personal level. New problems popping up before you solved the old ones. As above (in geopolitics) so below (on personal level).

And if you have to deal with several problems in the same time, the chances are good that you won't solve any of them. Or perhaps, just after you solved one problem, you get another one, and therefore you never get the chance to achieve something bigger in your life. You just spend your life solving problems after problems.

It works on people, and it works on countries.

p.s. my dreams from last night was that I was riding a horse, that was very interesting because I have never dream this before. Maybe that means that I'm pushing to hard on some things, because I couldn't control easily my horse and I want it.

Could be.

p.s. do you know some good thread about arguing, how to argue properly? That's my issue this days. I don't want to fight, don't care for arguing (even this could easily be my buffer, but if this is buffer I don't see the point in arguing), but if I don't argue it looks like I don't care.

Well, if the person is worth arguing with, then I think that arguing can be a good thing. I can't think of any text right now, but if I find it I'll tell you.

 

[Persej]

p.s. do you know some good thread about arguing, how to argue properly? That's my issue this days. I don't want to fight, don't care for arguing (even this could easily be my buffer, but if this is buffer I don't see the point in arguing), but if I don't argue it looks like I don't care.

This thread has some very good comments about arguing. Especially read Laura's posts: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24722.msg286294.html#msg286294

 

[Anamarija]

Thank you Persej, very helpful. ;)

 

[Windmill knight]

Speaking about "maturity of character", last night I had a same type of dream that I have from time to time. I dream about being in high school (sometimes in faculty) because somebody found out that I haven't finished some subjects and now I have to go to school again. And every time after I wake up I have to tell myself that I don't have to worry about that because I have diploma and that I finished all that I had to finish.

But now I think that maybe those dreams weren't about the school itself but about general life lessons. Maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me that in my life I missed to pass some basic life lessons and that I cannot skip them if I want to graduate.

I hope that in the future my subconscious manages to tell my what are those lessons and how to pass them.

I sometimes have those dreams too. Either I'm back at uni or at highschool, and I got exams to come, or a thesis to finish. A different version of this same type of stressful dream is being in jobs I've had in the past and having to get into the office on time, or dealing with some work-related urgent issue but something goes wrong, etc. Yet another is being late to catch a plane, and I've noticed those pressing-time dreams come up particularly when I know I need to get up early in the morning for some reason.

I've also wondered if those are metaphors for lessons or tasks that have yet to be completed. However, I think that the simplest explanation is that I'm anxious or stressed about something in waking life and that stress gets replayed during the dream following old patterns. As a general rule, I think it's useful to compare the themes that come up in dreams with our daily lifes. It often happens that the underlying emotions are similar, but the situations and the characters in the dream are changed, often for elements of the past that at the time made a big impression on the machine so it plays the old records again and again.

 

[luc]

Very interesting thread, thank you everyone!

As for the "drive" that some people develop, it depends on the motivation I guess - for example, I have known people with an exceptional drive to become an "artist" or what have you, because they want to be famous, admired, and avoid "real" work... On the other hand, I greatly admire people with a strong drive towards truth and service to others, which is a totally different "driving force". Thank you also for bringing up the "splitter vs. crystallizer" discussion, I totally forgot about that.

Speaking about "maturity of character", last night I had a same type of dream that I have from time to time. I dream about being in high school (sometimes in faculty) because somebody found out that I haven't finished some subjects and now I have to go to school again. And every time after I wake up I have to tell myself that I don't have to worry about that because I have diploma and that I finished all that I had to finish.

But now I think that maybe those dreams weren't about the school itself but about general life lessons. Maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me that in my life I missed to pass some basic life lessons and that I cannot skip them if I want to graduate.

I hope that in the future my subconscious manages to tell my what are those lessons and how to pass them.

I sometimes have those dreams too. Either I'm back at uni or at highschool, and I got exams to come, or a thesis to finish. A different version of this same type of stressful dream is being in jobs I've had in the past and having to get into the office on time, or dealing with some work-related urgent issue but something goes wrong, etc. Yet another is being late to catch a plane, and I've noticed those pressing-time dreams come up particularly when I know I need to get up early in the morning for some reason.

I've also wondered if those are metaphors for lessons or tasks that have yet to be completed. However, I think that the simplest explanation is that I'm anxious or stressed about something in waking life and that stress gets replayed during the dream following old patterns. As a general rule, I think it's useful to compare the themes that come up in dreams with our daily lifes. It often happens that the underlying emotions are similar, but the situations and the characters in the dream are changed, often for elements of the past that at the time made a big impression on the machine so it plays the old records again and again.

I've had very similar dreams, usually involving taking my final math test at school again... I always thought this is a hint for a deep blockage I face, namely self-discipline. I had this "personality split" that sometimes, I could drive myself real hard, but I always lost momentum once real self-discipline and endurance was needed. Another "little I" took over - I think there is some deep coping mechanism behind that, which I developed early on in life - everything was better than facing what's behind it I guess, even shooting myself in the foot, so to speak. This caused great harm to me and other people depending on me in the past. So maybe such dreams are meant to remind me of that, and motivate me to face this abyss? But it also could be "just" a stressful situation that is replayed again, with no deep meaning...

 

[Yas]

Very interesting thread!

In many instances I used to admire people who have this strong personality inside them (crystals), but in other times I prayed to god to never become like them when I see how much they are unable to let go of their holy cows. At that point I see a robot in front of me, not a living human being who can think rationally.

I would still like to crystallize, but just not to have something that would block me from my essence and having an open view on the world.

Since I can relate to not having a "drive for life" for most of my life (a bit of tautology here ;)), here's an idea. Is it possible that you don't want to "crystallize" but to have a "maturity of character"?

In many cases really "driven" people are being motivated by things they are not aware of. And sometimes it carries a heavy price for their health. I have a friend like this, who wants to work as a doctor at the top veterinary clinic in post Soviet Union area. She works as an assistant there right now. Sure, she is super dedicated and works incredibly hard for that chance. She takes 16 hours shifts one after another, and that's why she definitely deserves it.

On the other hand, she suffers from a serious case of parasomnia (and I had a chance to experience it when came for a short visit). During a day she is an epitome of tranquility, but during sleep she moves, fights, makes noises as if in pain, even says things like "I am afraid". She also says that sometimes she sleepwalks. Sure, apparently she has it from childhood, but it probably means that she always has been a "driven" person. And I really worry for her, because this isn't going to end well. But obviously she doesn't want to hear any of it.

But there is another type of "strong personality", that has to do with "strength of character". In this case "strong" doesn't mean "crystallized". This kind of people can "bend" and adapt if needed, but they also have enough will to face inner turmoils and prevent them from interfering with their aim.

That could be a good alternative to "crystallization". :)

Thanks for this comment Keit. Some time ago, I was thinking about this people that have a clear "drive" in life and I thought of it as identification, which can be related to "crystallization". This was something that I thought about when I was young and I kind of felt that people are so identified with what they do, lets say, being a musician or a doctor, and that becomes their whole identity. I noticed I never felt identified by something in particular and I thought I was wrong because of that, that I didn't find my true motivation in life... or something like that.

Yet, I think differently now. I believe that this identity people hold on to can be admired, yes. But that doesn't mean that we are all like that and also, as you say, the driving force that leads people to be identified with one particular activity isn't necessarily a conscious choice of what they want to do with their lives. Many times, what we believe to be our identity are narratives that we tell ourselves, according to our own programming. So after reading Inviting a Monkey to Tea, I came to an idea the identity isn't necessarily something fixed. What if what we call our true self is our Being? An what if our Being is our consciousness, so it isn't necessarily a fixed thing but an action; the action of being conscious?

So, we have a self (composed of multiple Is) that establishes relationships with the experience, by living, and if we don't identify our being with one particular relationship and we develop a second relationship which is above the multifaceted self and the experience, that would be the relationship of consciousness with self and experience, and maybe that relationship is what we call our true self. It is flexible and not fixed but a constant action, therefore, it hasn't got a particular activity as motivator, but choices (another action) lead by our consciousness.

Well... these are just ideas that I write down when I'm trying to digest what I read and they need work in order to be more clear... so I'm sorry if they are more confusing than anything else.

Speaking about "maturity of character", last night I had a same type of dream that I have from time to time. I dream about being in high school (sometimes in faculty) because somebody found out that I haven't finished some subjects and now I have to go to school again. And every time after I wake up I have to tell myself that I don't have to worry about that because I have diploma and that I finished all that I had to finish.

But now I think that maybe those dreams weren't about the school itself but about general life lessons. Maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me that in my life I missed to pass some basic life lessons and that I cannot skip them if I want to graduate.

I hope that in the future my subconscious manages to tell my what are those lessons and how to pass them.

I sometimes have those dreams too. Either I'm back at uni or at highschool, and I got exams to come, or a thesis to finish. A different version of this same type of stressful dream is being in jobs I've had in the past and having to get into the office on time, or dealing with some work-related urgent issue but something goes wrong, etc. Yet another is being late to catch a plane, and I've noticed those pressing-time dreams come up particularly when I know I need to get up early in the morning for some reason.

I've also wondered if those are metaphors for lessons or tasks that have yet to be completed. However, I think that the simplest explanation is that I'm anxious or stressed about something in waking life and that stress gets replayed during the dream following old patterns. As a general rule, I think it's useful to compare the themes that come up in dreams with our daily lifes. It often happens that the underlying emotions are similar, but the situations and the characters in the dream are changed, often for elements of the past that at the time made a big impression on the machine so it plays the old records again and again.

I've had very similar dreams, usually involving taking my final math test at school again... I always thought this is a hint for a deep blockage I face, namely self-discipline. I had this "personality split" that sometimes, I could drive myself real hard, but I always lost momentum once real self-discipline and endurance was needed. Another "little I" took over - I think there is some deep coping mechanism behind that, which I developed early on in life - everything was better than facing what's behind it I guess, even shooting myself in the foot, so to speak. This caused great harm to me and other people depending on me in the past. So maybe such dreams are meant to remind me of that, and motivate me to face this abyss? But it also could be "just" a stressful situation that is replayed again, with no deep meaning...

I also had these dreams of going back to school and having to finish some work and having exams and so on. I always thought that because school years where particularly hard emotionally, my subconscious is still processing all of that and doing some cleaning work. But the ideas posted above are definitively interesting and give food for thought. Thanks for sharing!

 

[luc]

Thanks for sharing this Yas.

Thanks for this comment Keit. Some time ago, I was thinking about this people that have a clear "drive" in life and I thought of it as identification, which can be related to "crystallization". This was something that I thought about when I was young and I kind of felt that people are so identified with what they do, lets say, being a musician or a doctor, and that becomes their whole identity. I noticed I never felt identified by something in particular and I thought I was wrong because of that, that I didn't find my true motivation in life... or something like that.

Similar here - or rather: I always had multiple identifications/driving forces going on that basically nullified each other. It was actually very frustrating and destructive to live in a state like this. On the other hand, it now provides ample material to "work with", to give each thing I tried/identified with a new meaning, and use it under a different umbrealla so to speak, with a more esoteric aim in mind.

Yet, I think differently now. I believe that this identity people hold on to can be admired, yes. But that doesn't mean that we are all like that and also, as you say, the driving force that leads people to be identified with one particular activity isn't necessarily a conscious choice of what they want to do with their lives. Many times, what we believe to be our identity are narratives that we tell ourselves, according to our own programming. So after reading Inviting a Monkey to Tea, I came to an idea the identity isn't necessarily something fixed. What if what we call our true self is our Being? An what if our Being is our consciousness, so it isn't necessarily a fixed thing but an action; the action of being conscious?

So, we have a self (composed of multiple Is) that establishes relationships with the experience, by living, and if we don't identify our being with one particular relationship and we develop a second relationship which is above the multifaceted self and the experience, that would be the relationship of consciousness with self and experience, and maybe that relationship is what we call our true self. It is flexible and not fixed but a constant action, therefore, it hasn't got a particular activity as motivator, but choices (another action) lead by our consciousness.

That's how I see it as well - we need to take our "personality" (as G. understood it) and work with it - integrate all those little I's and identifications by giving them a new purpose. Before, they were all doing this or that randomly, triggered by external and internal stimuli we were not aware of. Now, the goal is to put a little arrow symbol on all those I's, making them vectors pointing in a specific direction (our Aim). That way, we develop a new relationship with our little I's - something bigger, our true self, becomes responsible and "orchestrates" these identities so that each one can move towards the Aim. Sometimes, this means a radical change in our personalities, sometimes it means that outwardly, we don't change much, but because of the new motivations/aims, our whole purpose in life changes, our whole self moves in a certain direction, whereas before everything was random.

What I'm trying to say is that maybe those identifications are not useless after all and indeed can be admired, but what's important is to develop something bigger in ourselves, which can make those identifications move in a certain direction. At least that's how I understand it right now.

 

[Persej]

I think you explained our situation very well luc.

Regarding random identifications, there was this very good article on SOTT about how our "consumer culture imposes numerous influences that weaken personality structures": https://www.sott.net/article/318269-Cultural-insanity-Ponerized-Western-consumer-culture-is-creating-a-demoralized-man-in-psycho-spiritual-crisis

Despite surface appearances to the contrary, the consumer age is deathly boring. Boredom is caused, not because an activity is inherently boring, but because it is not meaningful to the person.

And this is another form of the attack on our selves. Although, this form of the attack can come in a pleasurable manner (sport, cars, fashion, tv shows...). So you have a plenty of material for all of your little Is to have fun with, and to never remember that something is wrong inside.

 

[Yas]

Yes, thanks luc! Your explanation very clear.

The Aim is indeed important in the process of bringing meaning to our lives. I think that this is very well put and clear:

What I'm trying to say is that maybe those identifications are not useless after all and indeed can be admired, but what's important is to develop something bigger in ourselves, which can make those identifications move in a certain direction. At least that's how I understand it right now.

I would stick that to my wall :D Thanks!