How can I write better?

[3DStudent]

To write maturely you would write with respect, and also displaying your knowledge. A mature person may not know something, and is able to ask for help or ask, "What are your thoughts on this?"

I think writing concisely and conveying information in the best way makes for good communication. Within the past 2-3 years I had that same problem with verbal communication. I just didn't know how best to ask or pose my thoughts in verbal words. So I'd stumble on my words, or make seemingly foolish sentences. But it has lessened and today it's less of a problem. So I think it just comes down to practice.

When writing longish posts, I write down the keywords or a few sentences I want to say. Then I expand them in a post and add correct grammar and flow. I review it and modify to make sure it makes sense. One last review and then I post it.

 

[luc]

Oh wait, what the hell did I want to tell you? Darn... :/

Luke, frankly, I found this comment rather insulting to all those who helped you out here. It translates to "oh, I know that I'm making life difficult for all of you, but I don't give a damn!! LOL!". You could have just changed your post and made it more on point, instead of writing that comment.

To be even more frank, I don't bother reading your posts anymore if they are longer than a few sentences. There's just so much babbling and confused thoughts in there that I feel it's not worth my time. Which is tragic, because I think you do have very interesting things to say if you manage to be concise.

Here's a plan: for a defined period of time, say one month, limit yourself to writing no more than 150 words per post (about the length of this post). NO EXCEPTIONS. Can you do it?

 

[Ina]

About writing better.

Just quickly some admin. 1.This is a fresh reply to the original message.2. I am using my mobile.

Being bilingual myself I can understand both the difficuly and the insatisfaction with written English self expression. To write well in any language you need to attain mastery in its structure, resources and its usual and specific constructs. To convey in writing what you think with clarity you need to master logic, rethoric and reasoning together sith focus and follow through. To express yourself....you need to know yourself and accept that you are continuously in a process of learning, meaning that you should only worry about applying as corectly as possible what you know without being afraid of that if you so wish. ...
Practically and short time. If you have a writing project there are many helpful internet bootcamps or writing clubs that can give you support.
Last but not least. Practice, practice, practice.
Ina

 

[bjorb]

[quote author=LW]Ok, can I apologise and say I'm sorry? I know I messed up. I didn't want to admit it but instead found ways to justify. I know I did the opposite of what I wanted to do! Things just got out of hand and I was back to old-patterns. It's a struggle.[/quote]

Whenever you struggle with it. Maybe the following about unnecessary talking can help :)

Unnecessary talking is one of the chief obstacles to awakening. If we want to awaken, we need to reduce unnecessary talking, and if you want to reduce it, you need to know what it is, both in theory and practice.

Talking has many uses. We are the only animal on the planet that has this faculty. We can use it to communicate great ideas, to ask simple questions. To express emotions, in all kinds of forms, from simple greetings, to moving poems. We can use talking to ask someone to `Please pass the salt', to give the instinctive-moving brain what it needs. There's a lot of useful, necessary talking.

On the other hand, there is also talking that has no use, that does not achieve any aim, that is simply talking for talking's sake. You aren't interested whether the other person is interested to hear what you're saying, you probably aren't aware of what's going on, engrossed in the conversation. You might well feel drained afterwards, and have no memory of what you said, it was so trivial.

Talking like this can use a huge amount of energy, and is a sure sign of sleep.

There is no rule to tell you what is necessary and what is unnecessary talking. You have to observe yourself, see if what you are saying is of any use, and how does it make you feel? Some people are more prone to unnecessary talking than others, and will need to work on it more. For some people it may be that they do very little talking at all, and really need to speak up more often.

 

[luke wilson]

Oh wait, what the hell did I want to tell you? Darn... :/

Luke, frankly, I found this comment rather insulting to all those who helped you out here. It translates to "oh, I know that I'm making life difficult for all of you, but I don't give a damn!! LOL!". You could have just changed your post and made it more on point, instead of writing that comment.

To be even more frank, I don't bother reading your posts anymore if they are longer than a few sentences. There's just so much babbling and confused thoughts in there that I feel it's not worth my time. Which is tragic, because I think you do have very interesting things to say if you manage to be concise.

Here's a plan: for a defined period of time, say one month, limit yourself to writing no more than 150 words per post (about the length of this post). NO EXCEPTIONS. Can you do it?

The energy that is embodied in this post is why I started the thread - because I could feel it weigh down on my shoulders.

I take everything you've said seriously and I'll endeavour to improve. Instead of committing to your plan on paper, I'll try and bring it forth in my actions.

About writing better.

Just quickly some admin. 1.This is a fresh reply to the original message.2. I am using my mobile.

Being bilingual myself I can understand both the difficuly and the insatisfaction with written English self expression. To write well in any language you need to attain mastery in its structure, resources and its usual and specific constructs. To convey in writing what you think with clarity you need to master logic, rethoric and reasoning together sith focus and follow through. To express yourself....you need to know yourself and accept that you are continuously in a process of learning, meaning that you should only worry about applying as corectly as possible what you know without being afraid of that if you so wish. ...
Practically and short time. If you have a writing project there are many helpful internet bootcamps or writing clubs that can give you support.
Last but not least. Practice, practice, practice.
Ina

Thank you Inna. I particularly enjoyed this

To write well in any language you need to attain mastery in its structure, resources and its usual and specific constructs. To convey in writing what you think with clarity you need to master logic, rethoric and reasoning together sith focus and follow through.

[quote author=LW]Ok, can I apologise and say I'm sorry? I know I messed up. I didn't want to admit it but instead found ways to justify. I know I did the opposite of what I wanted to do! Things just got out of hand and I was back to old-patterns. It's a struggle.

Whenever you struggle with it. Maybe the following about unnecessary talking can help :)

Unnecessary talking is one of the chief obstacles to awakening. If we want to awaken, we need to reduce unnecessary talking, and if you want to reduce it, you need to know what it is, both in theory and practice.

Talking has many uses. We are the only animal on the planet that has this faculty. We can use it to communicate great ideas, to ask simple questions. To express emotions, in all kinds of forms, from simple greetings, to moving poems. We can use talking to ask someone to `Please pass the salt', to give the instinctive-moving brain what it needs. There's a lot of useful, necessary talking.

On the other hand, there is also talking that has no use, that does not achieve any aim, that is simply talking for talking's sake. You aren't interested whether the other person is interested to hear what you're saying, you probably aren't aware of what's going on, engrossed in the conversation. You might well feel drained afterwards, and have no memory of what you said, it was so trivial.

Talking like this can use a huge amount of energy, and is a sure sign of sleep.

There is no rule to tell you what is necessary and what is unnecessary talking. You have to observe yourself, see if what you are saying is of any use, and how does it make you feel? Some people are more prone to unnecessary talking than others, and will need to work on it more. For some people it may be that they do very little talking at all, and really need to speak up more often.

[/quote]

As always, thanks Bjorn.

 

[Anamarija]

Maybe I have understood this wrongly, but isn't this topic about selfimportance? Why someone paying so much attention how he looks and why he not trying to achieve something imporant or how contribute to others or community?

Is presentation more important than content?

Sorry if my post sound offending, I will try to deflate with this words: I found you post very intelligent and wise. ;)

 

[luke wilson]

Maybe I have understood this wrongly, but isn't this topic about selfimportance? Why someone paying so much attention how he looks and why he not trying to achieve something imporant or how contribute to others or community?

Is presentation more important than content?

Sorry if my post sound offending, I will try to deflate with this words: I found you post very intelligent and wise. ;)

From my understanding, presentation is quite important and can affect many things adversely if not adhered to. For example, you must communicate in the correct way, appear the correct way and generally in how you come across, you should conform to the environment you are in if you intend to fit in and not suffer from the effects of non-conformity.

As we are all social creatures and essentially live our lives in these 'social hubs' which we create between us, individuals are required to fit into their designated hubs or suffer the consequences.

Content of-course is important but content in many regards is connected to appearance. After all, what you know about everyone in your life is what you've seen of them either through surface things (e.g. appearance, language etc) and/or through their actions.

 

[Anamarija]

Maybe I have understood this wrongly, but isn't this topic about selfimportance? Why someone paying so much attention how he looks and why he not trying to achieve something important or how contribute to others or community?

Is presentation more important than content?

Sorry if my post sound offending, I will try to deflate with this words: I found you post very intelligent and wise. ;)

From my understanding, presentation is quite important and can affect many things adversely if not adhered to. For example, you must communicate in the correct way, appear the correct way and generally in how you come across, you should conform to the environment you are in if you intend to fit in and not suffer from the effects of non-conformity.

As we are all social creatures and essentially live our lives in these 'social hubs' which we create between us, individuals are required to fit into their designated hubs or suffer the consequences.

Content of-course is important but content in many regards is connected to appearance. After all, what you know about everyone in your life is what you've seen of them either through surface things (e.g. appearance, language etc) and/or through their actions.

Agree, I'm still trying to understand how in practical way I can achieve to fit in some groups that I'm in right now. But isn't that what just come, in every day adjustment, if you trying to be aware of it?

Example, many people from my country don't know how to write on English on the forum because they afraid how someone else will saw them? Because someone will think of them in bad way because of lack of skill of English? Do you value others from the way they write posts? Some people has so much to say, help someone but they don't know how to say it. Isn't this community (among other things) place where we can feel confrontable to try to say something even this is wrong speaking or knowing?

 

[luke wilson]

Maybe I have understood this wrongly, but isn't this topic about selfimportance? Why someone paying so much attention how he looks and why he not trying to achieve something important or how contribute to others or community?

Is presentation more important than content?

Sorry if my post sound offending, I will try to deflate with this words: I found you post very intelligent and wise. ;)

From my understanding, presentation is quite important and can affect many things adversely if not adhered to. For example, you must communicate in the correct way, appear the correct way and generally in how you come across, you should conform to the environment you are in if you intend to fit in and not suffer from the effects of non-conformity.

As we are all social creatures and essentially live our lives in these 'social hubs' which we create between us, individuals are required to fit into their designated hubs or suffer the consequences.

Content of-course is important but content in many regards is connected to appearance. After all, what you know about everyone in your life is what you've seen of them either through surface things (e.g. appearance, language etc) and/or through their actions.

Agree, I'm still trying to understand how in practical way I can achieve to fit in some groups that I'm in right now. But isn't that what just come, in every day adjustment, if you trying to be aware of it?

Example, many people from my country don't know how to write on English on the forum because they afraid how someone else will saw them? Because someone will think of them in bad way because of lack of skill of English? Do you value others from the way they write posts? Some people has so much to say, help someone but they don't know how to say it. Isn't this community (among other things) place where we can feel confrontable to try to say something even this is wrong speaking or knowing?

This is just my opinion.

Of-course, if you know people who would want to communicate and get involved, but decide not to do so because they think they will get judged harshly for their lack of communication-skills, you should encourage them to go against the grain. Depending on what environment they are in, people could empathise and give them that extra space or some people could be close-minded. If you are referring to this forum in specific, this is one of the most open-minded forums out there as far as I know!

Also, it's important to remember that lets say the people you talk about, they are already a million miles better if they can string a sentence in english because you would have a quadrillion people who could write sweet poetry in english but can't write even 1 word in croatian. That is, they need to see the other side of the equation (what they have as opposed to what they don't have).

However, I think it's wrong to think that just because you have certain deficiencies, certain rules which apply to others don't apply to you.

 

[Anamarija]

However, I think it's wrong to think that just because you have certain deficiencies, certain rules which apply to others don't apply to you.

Sorry, I didn't understood what you mean with this?

 

[luke wilson]

However, I think it's wrong to think that just because you have certain deficiencies, certain rules which apply to others don't apply to you.

Sorry, I didn't understood what you mean with this?

E.g. lets say you give your view on a 4th way concept. You are struggling with your English so what you say is seen different to what you imagined. People point this out that what you said is not correct in terms of content and from your perception, you think it's because they aren't seeing it how you are (maybe because of language differences).... so you try again and again.... but you are met with the same responses. Now the heat is rising.

In this situation, you are against many things including the obstacles of language lets say compared to someone who can convey their thoughts effortlessly in words.

So lets say after awhile of this back and forth you get angry and say things you shouldn't due to the build up of anger and frustration. Just like anyone else, depending on what rules apply for those who say things out of anger and frustration, you will suffer the same consequences most of the time. That is, certain rules which apply to others, also apply to you, regardless of whatever deficiencies you think you may or may not have. People sometimes forget this if they rise too high (e.g. see Hillary Clinton's email scandal) or if they are too low (deficient).

 

[Anamarija]

Thank you, great example and you clear out this for me.

But isn't that great opportunity to practice external consideration just because of barrier of language, for me and for others?

 

[luke wilson]

Thank you, great example and you clear out this for me.

But isn't that great opportunity to practice external consideration just because of barrier of language, for me and for others?

There are 2 different vantage points and for resolution to be achieved, where these points meet, they must be in harmony. Using the example above

1st Vantage Point

The one who thinks he is not being understood due to whatever reason (say language).

2nd Vantage Point

The ones who think the other person is incapable of getting over 'the whatever reason' to seeing things their way (the correct way).

Now, as we live in social hubs with rules, the 2nd vantage point has more authority, so in my eyes, the one on the 1st vantage point has to shift because he is the only 1 occupying that space, compared to the hundreds/thousands/millions etc who occupy the space of the 2nd vantage point. That is, you enter into the realm of conformity vs non-conformity and the consequences there-in.

If external consideration means that you expect the 2nd vantage point to secede their position, then I think that is wishful thinking in practise as it's highly unlikely to happen. At best, you can hope for a stalemate, at least in the short-term, if you are unwilling to secede your position of the 1st vantage point.

Coming back to this forum, the 2nd vantage point is always that of the teacher and the 1st is always that of the student, at least as per my perception.

Btw, this is just my opinion.

 

[Anamarija]

Thank you, great example and you clear out this for me.

But isn't that great opportunity to practice external consideration just because of barrier of language, for me and for others?

There are 2 different vantage points and for resolution to be achieved, where these points meet, they must be in harmony. Using the example above

1st Vantage Point

The one who thinks he is not being understood due to whatever reason (say language).

2nd Vantage Point

The ones who think the other person is incapable of getting over 'the whatever reason' to seeing things their way (the correct way).

Now, as we live in social hubs with rules, the 2nd vantage point has more authority, so in my eyes, the one on the 1st vantage point has to shift because he is the only 1 occupying that space, compared to the hundreds/thousands/millions etc who occupy the space of the 2nd vantage point. That is, you enter into the realm of conformity vs non-conformity and the consequences there-in.

If external consideration means that you expect the 2nd vantage point to secede their position, then I think that is wishful thinking in practise as it's highly unlikely to happen. At best, you can hope for a stalemate, at least in the short-term, if you are unwilling to secede your position of the 1st vantage point.

Coming back to this forum, the 2nd vantage point is always that of the teacher and the 1st is always that of the student, at least as per my perception.

Btw, this is just my opinion.

I must say that I admire your skill to explain easily what is your point of thinking :).

If the one from point one and the one from point two try to achieve the same thing - understanding, isn't that the best for the best of them and also community?

 

[luke wilson]

If the one from point one and the one from point two try to achieve the same thing - understanding, isn't that the best for the best of them and also community?

Can I ask you a question, who determines what this state of having achieved understanding looks like? Is it point 1 or point 2? The situation is already that of non-understanding.