How to avoid making noise - detour from Corona virus...exaggerated story?

[anka]

@SOTTREADER , @Thebull , @loreta :

I decided to deal with this outside of the Corona thread to keep the flow of discussion there undisturbed.

Straight to the matter. This is the exchange in question:

Fantastic Anka! You made my night! Thank you!

Remember they were doing the same in China a couple of months ago

Not sure what your trying to suggest here?

That they were doing the same in China.

And?

There's no and.

Now let me tell you something, SOTTREADER. I notice in some of your posts that the message from you just does not come across and the problem I think lies in that you don't bother to explain yourself better. Other messages are factual and beneficial to others but the exchange above shows very little external consideration. The result is creating noise which in such a busy thread is disrespectful. One of the house rules states: 'Maximization of the signal to noise ratio'.

Don't you think that when Thebull asked you to explain yourself better and you basically just repeated the sentence that it would be appropriate and externally much more considerate to say more? When I first read your response to @loreta, I also found it strange but I decided to wait with my reaction and observe a bit. I want to say now that it would be very helpful, when you are asked, to answer in more detail what you mean by your words. Simple as that. Otherwise we just create chaos with all that misunderstanding.

Edit: Link to the forum guidelines

 

[SOTTREADER]

@anka I don't want to jump straight into a defensive mode.

Can you please copy / paste the relevant posts here that you think I made that contravene the rules and / or aren't upto the standard you expect so I can see?

Regarding the exchange with @Thebull, I posted a video from China showing people singing which was similar to that from Italy.

The aim was to show a pattern... That it looks like regardless of country, people are essentially people and will find innovative ways to make good of a bad situation. I think this is a testament to the human spirit?

 

[anka]

I will try, SOTTREADER. To your defense I want to say that it was my impression and I cannot guarantee I can prove its legitimacy :) Now, it will take me a while to go through your posts to find where I got the impression exactly. Allow me this delay, thanks.

And thanks for your explanation too, that's what I was hoping for. Only without further wording it was such a dry statement that a person who reads the bulk of info can get sort of derailed and it would only take those two three sentences which you just wrote above to be added to the original post. Then there would be no doubt what you mean and the stream of info would flow on

 

[Ina]

@SOTTREADER,
That is what I have noticed as well and honestly, it is like a faint sunshine through the clouds and I am stubbornly looking for more.

 

[SOTTREADER]

@anka, just let me know and we'll hopefully see how we can work through it!

I might not be the most refined person going... Apologies! Language and finesse are not my strong suits.

 

[Ina]

@anka,
Sometimes noise becomes the signal. Thank you for breaking up the thread.

 

[Thebull]

@anka I don't want to jump straight into a defensive mode.

Can you please copy / paste the relevant posts here that you think I made that contravene the rules and / or aren't upto the standard you expect so I can see?

Regarding the exchange with @Thebull, I posted a video from China showing people singing which was similar to that from Italy.

The aim was to show a pattern... That it looks like regardless of country, people are essentially people and will find innovative ways to make good of a bad situation. I think this is a testament to the human spirit?

No problem from my side I think I was trying to delve to find out what SOTTREADER's real thoughts are regarding the Corona virus. Does SOTTREADER think that the response from the ptb are justified. Does sottreader think that the majority of the people here are unjustified in thinking that the virus is over hyped? I'm not sure I have grasped where he's coming from at times so I probably was trying to start a conversation. I'm not the brightest and maybe should have asked out right. I thought sottreader was suggesting something else when he responded to Loreta so thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Ina]

Another spontaneous gesture from Coronavirus doctors dancing with patients in a hospital in Wuhan (dancing maybe part of treatment).

‘Life will find a way.’

 

[SOTTREADER]

No problem from my side I think I was trying to delve to find out what SOTTREADER's real thoughts are regarding the Corona virus. Does SOTTREADER think that the response from the ptb are justified. Does sottreader think that the majority of the people here are unjustified in thinking that the virus is over hyped? I'm not sure I have grasped where he's coming from at times so I probably was trying to start a conversation. I'm not the brightest and maybe should have asked out right. I thought sottreader was suggesting something else when he responded to Loreta so thanks for clearing that up.

Okay, maybe I should try and explain my position.

I don't really pay much attention to hysteria. People act as a part of a mob in various situations. This is part of the human condition. It's not only covid-19 that can trigger the mob mentality. So for me, that people are acting in a moblike fashion is not 'news' as it was. In fact, them not acting in such a fashion is what I'd consider as 'news', something to all of a sudden pay attention to and try to understand.

I think this virus has injected an additional risk to the usual background risk that people face. This 'additional risk' is unannounced, and in contravention to our democratic ideals where 'choice' is one of the fundamental underpinning. To put it a different way, covid-19 has announced itself, it is spreading, you will get infected, (you'll go through a process as Trump put it) and then you'll either come out okay (1), okay but with diminished capabilities (2), not okay(3), or dead(4). These are things people were not even considering they'd be facing outside the usual background risks we have all grown accustomed to (e.g. flu, risk of dying in a car crash etc).

The 'mob' therefore takes flight, the government (which is elected by the mob) has to react and fulfill their mandate to protect the electorate.

The judgement of the outcomes from the actions of the government is whether they will successfully protect their electorate and essentially eliminate this new additional risk (covid 19) and return things to how they were before (when it didn't exist). The government should be able to do this not only by reducing number of deaths, but also number of infections (the electorate does not want to get infected, let alone die).

My position is I track this event to its conclusion. There are 2 main camps driving decision making at both the societal / policy level and down to the social individual levels.

They are

1. Those who can't accept the new reality, they see it as a threat that must be eliminated at (almost) any cost. The 'this is not just a flu' crowd.
2. Those who have come to accept it and have done so by conceptualising it as the flu. They therefore have integrated this new additional risk into their mental conceptualisation of the usual background risks that exist (e.g. flu, risk of dying in a car crash etc). A.k.a. the flu crowd.

The 2 groups are fighting each other and at the moment group 1 is winning in most countries though group 2 appears to have a foothold within the UK, at least in the societal / policy level.

At the individual social level, group 2 is the predominant powerful group in this forum owing to the fact the authorities that be here hold this position.

I'm somewhat conflicted between the two groups, having not reached an internal equilibrium as to how I'm seeing (or more importantly, feeling about) the situation. What I am though is in high confluence with the outbreak as a whole, being captivated by the ongoing story!

I may come across as antagonistic I think as I post information that is more in confluence with group 1 (which is not the predominant group here) and I lack the ability to finesse the language to be more in confluence with the perceptions / conceptualisation of group 2 (the dominant audience).

Ultimately though, I think presenting the dominant information from the information sphere of group 1 allows people to have a wider view as ultimately, group 1 is calling the shots currently e.g.

• I've been mentioning for weeks that group 2 will be dragged kicking and screaming into the reality of group 1 - see all the lockdowns in Europe and the USA now. This is useful information, yes?

This is the reality. There's no escaping it, the this is just flu crowd will be dragged into that reality kicking and screaming but that's the reality. Not sure how else to put it... This is what is happening! What we have to do now is just get psychologically ready to face that reality as that's what is coming. Again, not sure how else to put it other than to say it's going to happen that way. Italy tried to avoid that by taking token gestures and now they are forced to go semi full mode in the hope the situation is rescued but it's probably not enough and also it's a bit too late in the day...! The situation is as it is!

• Also, utilising the conceptualisation from group 1, one could have identified where the situation in Spain was heading ahead of time, which I posted below. Now Spain is in total and complete lockdown.

I don't know if anyone has noticed this but Spain has moved from the cluster stage to the explosion stage.

Yesterday they had 399 new cases, today 443. Before this, for a long while they had clusters so usually 40 - 100 per day.

[....]

In Spain, the government now has their work cut out. In Spain there is no talk about social distancing.... I should know, I was there last week. Festivals, cultural events and the like are in full swing. People live normally like there is nothing to worry about.

So now, the numbers are exploding and unless the government takes actions like Italy, Spain will soon be facing thousands of cases and their hospitals are about to get busier.

[.....]

Anyways, my position is I conceptualise this virus through the lense of the 2 groups mentioned above... I track information put out by the 2 groups. I note which group is in power at any given moment and therefore what policies they will enact on the ground as the virus spreads. On the social level, there is potential for civil chaos down the line in certain countries which are dependant on various factors which I'm still ironing out.

Hopefully you now know my position better.

 

[Voyageur]

They are

1. Those who can't accept the new reality, they see it as a threat that must be eliminated at (almost) any cost. The 'this is not just a flu' crowd.
2. Those who have come to accept it and have done so by conceptualising it as the flu. They therefore have integrated this new additional risk into their mental conceptualisation of the usual background risks that exist (e.g. flu, risk of dying in a car crash etc). A.k.a. the flu crowd.

Being behind on the thread in question, thought it considerate of you to expand on the questions being asked.

Anyways, my position is I conceptualise this virus through the lense of the 2 groups mentioned above... I track information put out by the 2 groups. I note which group is in power at any given moment and therefore what policies they will enact on the ground as the virus spreads. On the social level, there is potential for civil chaos down the line in certain countries which are dependant on various factors which I'm still ironing out.

Is there a third camp?

The C's often indicate the third influence or man (there are many examples of this and here is one):

A: Laura, my dear, if you really want to reveal "many beautiful and amazing things," all you need to do is remember the triad, the trilogy, the trinity, and look always for the triplicative connecting clue profile. Connect the threes... do not rest until you have found three beautifully balancing meanings!!

So perhaps, and just as an example that may not be correct:

3. There may be those who see #1 (with its unbridled fear) being agitated further by a 24/7 media and State craft. They may know it is also understandable for #1 to be in this position as being more prone to the say so of authoritarians. They may see States trying to follow the lead to contain; which is not necessarily irresponsible. Number #3 may also see #2 as being a pretty reliable gauge having seen history (including knowledge of plagues), who have looked at the science of viruses (statistics and treatments), and who also see those who, as in the past, make use of the fears generated by those in #1 for things now seen and things yet unseen as possibilities. Possibilities include the use of #1 (and to move more into that category from #2), more or less, to further objectives not related with the flu while keeping it front row and center in the lens. They may see those who may be trying to make hay out of it as related to their particular influences (and this includes geopolitical and geoeconomic)?

I'll add to the third category without creating a forth, the possible of hyperdimensional interactions feeding on fear generated within #1 and on those who help to generate?

Don't know.

The thread in question has a lot of data (with serious health/emotional implications), data that goes this way and that, so one thought at one time may lead to another thought later - it's open, and may change again, IMO.

Again:

...various factors which I'm still ironing out.

Yes, it is ongoing process indeed.

 

[Thebull]

Okay, maybe I should try and explain my position.

I don't really pay much attention to hysteria. People act as a part of a mob in various situations. This is part of the human condition. It's not only covid-19 that can trigger the mob mentality. So for me, that people are acting in a moblike fashion is not 'news' as it was. In fact, them not acting in such a fashion is what I'd consider as 'news', something to all of a sudden pay attention to and try to understand.

I think this virus has injected an additional risk to the usual background risk that people face. This 'additional risk' is unannounced, and in contravention to our democratic ideals where 'choice' is one of the fundamental underpinning. To put it a different way, covid-19 has announced itself, it is spreading, you will get infected, (you'll go through a process as Trump put it) and then you'll either come out okay (1), okay but with diminished capabilities (2), not okay(3), or dead(4). These are things people were not even considering they'd be facing outside the usual background risks we have all grown accustomed to (e.g. flu, risk of dying in a car crash etc).

The 'mob' therefore takes flight, the government (which is elected by the mob) has to react and fulfill their mandate to protect the electorate.

The judgement of the outcomes from the actions of the government is whether they will successfully protect their electorate and essentially eliminate this new additional risk (covid 19) and return things to how they were before (when it didn't exist). The government should be able to do this not only by reducing number of deaths, but also number of infections (the electorate does not want to get infected, let alone die).

My position is I track this event to its conclusion. There are 2 main camps driving decision making at both the societal / policy level and down to the social individual levels.

They are

1. Those who can't accept the new reality, they see it as a threat that must be eliminated at (almost) any cost. The 'this is not just a flu' crowd.
2. Those who have come to accept it and have done so by conceptualising it as the flu. They therefore have integrated this new additional risk into their mental conceptualisation of the usual background risks that exist (e.g. flu, risk of dying in a car crash etc). A.k.a. the flu crowd.

The 2 groups are fighting each other and at the moment group 1 is winning in most countries though group 2 appears to have a foothold within the UK, at least in the societal / policy level.

At the individual social level, group 2 is the predominant powerful group in this forum owing to the fact the authorities that be here hold this position.

I'm somewhat conflicted between the two groups, having not reached an internal equilibrium as to how I'm seeing (or more importantly, feeling about) the situation. What I am though is in high confluence with the outbreak as a whole, being captivated by the ongoing story!

I may come across as antagonistic I think as I post information that is more in confluence with group 1 (which is not the predominant group here) and I lack the ability to finesse the language to be more in confluence with the perceptions / conceptualisation of group 2 (the dominant audience).

Ultimately though, I think presenting the dominant information from the information sphere of group 1 allows people to have a wider view as ultimately, group 1 is calling the shots currently e.g.

• I've been mentioning for weeks that group 2 will be dragged kicking and screaming into the reality of group 1 - see all the lockdowns in Europe and the USA now. This is useful information, yes?

• Also, utilising the conceptualisation from group 1, one could have identified where the situation in Spain was heading ahead of time, which I posted below. Now Spain is in total and complete lockdown.

Anyways, my position is I conceptualise this virus through the lense of the 2 groups mentioned above... I track information put out by the 2 groups. I note which group is in power at any given moment and therefore what policies they will enact on the ground as the virus spreads. On the social level, there is potential for civil chaos down the line in certain countries which are dependant on various factors which I'm still ironing out.

Hopefully you now know my position better.

Thanks for your detailed response.

And?

I'd also like to apologise for my response to your post.

Anka that's for moving this here and sorry for the noise!