How to deal with a bad person if you have to live with her?

[Anamarija]

Probably everyone had at least one bad person (someone who doing little bad things, can comunicated with him, he is going trough your stuff, keeping secret, talking lies about you to other people, telling lies to you, not just big one, he is just lying all the time) in your life?

Everyone probably ask yourself "why this is happening to me?" So many bad people in this world so it is pretty "natural" that each one has at least one of those, right?
I could say that before I have made some choices in my life I had so many vampires in my life that I'm amazed that I'm still alive. Maybe we all have to go trough such dificult experience.

I apologize if someone already post this subject.

I could understand that we cannot have only good people (same vibration like we) around us, but if you live with a sneaky guy how can you deal with him? This is not situation from yesterday, I'm trying to deal with this for 2 years. Before this I had a almost the same person, with the same characteristic living with me, so for me this is like: Ok, here we go again!
First year I was so in to talking about him, all the time. Then I realized that is waste of time and enery. Now, I'm trying no to look to him, not to talk, nothing. Sometimes it works, sometime I slip.
There is no chance right now to not to live together.

So, my questions are: how you deal with this kind or problems, did you ever had this kind of problems? How did you explained yourself (karma or ...) why this is happening to you?

 

[skycsil]

So, my questions are: how you deal with this kind or problems, did you ever had this kind of problems? How did you explained yourself (karma or ...) why this is happening to you?

Probabbly most of us know what you're talking from direct experience, and you will find tons of useful information and recommended readings if you search in the forum for keywords like narcissism, psychopathy, predator, organic portals, etc.

I think the trick here is that we tend to separate the "good" from the "bad" people making it an "us vs them" fight. The thing is, we have a predator inside of us. As Barbara Horts points out in Unholy Hungers:

"The abrupt speed with which a vampire archetype may be activated and deactivated can surprise us to the point of disbelief. We cannot believe that the serial murderer Ted Bundy was a successful suicide prevention counselor. We cannot fathom how the officers in Nazi death camps could, after a day filled with torture and genocide, be loving fathers and devoted husbands when they returned to their families at night. We can't believe that such things could be true because, as the great social psychologist Else Frenkl-Brunswick discovered, we are highly intolerant of ambiguity, particularly when the ambiguity occurs in other people. We like to keep our people neatly categorized: right and wrong, good and bad. We love to hate heinous criminals because they permit us to put the bad "out there" in another person. Once all of the bad has been projected onto the Really Bad Person, we can reassure ourselves that there is no bad in ourselves. Nonetheless, the truth is that our inner lives are far more complex than we realize. "Good" people do inhuman things, and "bad" people do humane things-it just depends on the circumstances. Even a person who is severely infected with vampiric energy can be capable of compassion, and even a person with the best of intentions can be driven by the vampire if the situation evokes the beast."

 

[T.C.]

Hi Dakota

Can you go into any more specifics about the situation? You say they're a bad person and allude to some pretty bad behaviour, but could you give us any more data? You say it's not possible to not live with them at the moment, but at the moment, we (the forum) can't be sure if that's actually the case.

With a bit more info, we could close off a few different courses of action and then focus on the best direction to take with this.

 

[Anamarija]

Can you go into any more specifics about the situation?

T.C., I have tried to write my post without a long story because I don't want to bather you with my life problems. I presumed that everyone had a experience with this kind of problem.
I agree with skycsil and Barbara Horts about vampire in everyone, but I'm aware (when I am) vampire in me, and the other personae is not. He cheats, he lies, steels, making bad atmospehere all day. I have dealt with all his debts, not because of him, because some else. We are stuck with him because a finance.
I'm just wondering how others deal with this challenge if you wanna called that way or just problem? In your mind how you deal with everyday living?

 

[cope]

"The abrupt speed with which a vampire archetype may be activated and deactivated can surprise us to the point of disbelief."
If i managed to keep her 'normal' all day, the tantrum/feeding would just be postponed until bedtime. For me, not being used to such behaviour, this was terrible, it wore me out completely. The first three years it would take me up to 1,5 hour to calm down: make tea, smoke, collect energy.. Then, i learned to do this quicker, and limit the drain. Then i learned to get extremely angry in a split of a second, attack back, and get calm in short time again, just letting it fall of my back. But this doesn't work as long as you have any hook, attachment or empathy to this person.

 

[Anamarija]

Then, i learned to do this quicker, and limit the drain. Then i learned to get extremely angry in a split of a second, attack back, and get calm in short time again, just letting it fall of my back. But this doesn't work as long as you have any hook, attachment or empathy to this person.

It's true, with time logically we deal with this with more success, losing less energy and not attach like before. My problem is not with a person who attacks me in direct way, problem is when someone is so sneaky and doing bad thing behind your back and when you confront him (I did before so many times) he just denied everything and become so aggressive in passive way.
Hook or attachment... , something to think about it.

 

[kalibex]

My problem is not with a person who attacks me in direct way, problem is when someone is so sneaky and doing bad thing behind your back and when you confront him (I did before so many times) he just denied everything and become so aggressive in passive way.

If there's no way to realistically separate yourself from such a person right now, you can still protect yourself as much as possible in the meantime.

For example, if this person is an untrustworthy apartment mate who seems to be stealing things, you can lock up crucial belongings or hide important items. Not make a big deal out of it - just, suddenly one day the person goes over to mooch, and sees that there's a hasp and padlock (that wasn't there last week). And so on.

I mean, you know someone's messing with you, so take positive action on your own behalf...

 

[Εἰρήνη]

Dakota, I know what you are going through. The person next to you is draining your energy and was probably "placed" next to you to speed up your deterioration.
As harsh as it sounds, you just have to STOP it abruptly. Just say: "NO MORE"
You will see that this will trigger a very negative reinforced reaction by the the vampire. That person would try to do anything to keep you around as a source of food. For example that person will manipulate you, make you feel guilty, try to bind you with more obligations, make it impossible for you to leave.
The only thing to do in this situation is to move out, change your phone number, cut all the possible ties to this person. Yes, I understand that your financial situation is keeping you there, but you will figure everything out. Don't be afraid.
As was previously mentioned, it is crucial for you to educate yourself on the issues of psychopathy, organic portals, narcissism, so you know what to expect and how to deal with those people.
You can start from here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm
Defense Against the Psychopath: A Brief Introduction to Human Predators5.1 - Stefan H. Verstappen
The Sociopath Next Door - Martha Stout
Women Who Love Psychopaths: Inside the Relationships of Inevitable Harm5.2 - Sandra Brown
Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us - Robert Hare
The Mask of Sanity: An Attempt To Clarify Some Issues About The So-Called Psychopathic Personality5.3 - Hervey Cleckley
The Paranoia Switch: How Terror Rewires Our Brains and Reshapes Our Behavior--and How We Can Reclaim Our Courage5.6 - Martha Stout

I hope everything is going to work out. Please share with us the progress. I think people here can provide some guidance.
Good luck!

 

[Tigersoap]

I'm just wondering how others deal with this challenge if you wanna called that way or just problem? In your mind how you deal with everyday living?

It's always helpful to have more information about the situation, no need to go into all the details but otherwise it might be harder to give a useful advice suited to your issues at the moment.

If that person is toxic, you would need to take steps to either move away from that person or make this person moves out because it probably won't get better just by suffering his behavior.

 

[Anamarija]

Thank you, all your advices our very helpfull.

I tried to just ignore him, shut down the programs that pop up in my head, but then I found out that is not good to ignore things, they will not gonna away. So, now I'm ready to deal with that. I cannot get out from this situation in the way like going away, because this is my home. I cannot go in details of the story because it is not just me involved and it is not good to talk about someone else private stuff so I have to be careful what I'm writing about it. Second, you never know who is reading here, or anywhere.

Maybe I just HAVE to learn how to deal with this kind of vampire. So, I'm gonna go for it what Εἰρήvη says and have attitude "no more" and see what will happend.
And certainly read about vampires trough books she/he recommend.

Work in progress.. ;)

 

[Gawan]

Thank you, all your advices our very helpfull.

I tried to just ignore him, shut down the programs that pop up in my head, but then I found out that is not good to ignore things, they will not gonna away. So, now I'm ready to deal with that. I cannot get out from this situation in the way like going away, because this is my home. I cannot go in details of the story because it is not just me involved and it is not good to talk about someone else private stuff so I have to be careful what I'm writing about it. Second, you never know who is reading here, or anywhere.

Maybe I just HAVE to learn how to deal with this kind of vampire. So, I'm gonna go for it what Εἰρήvη says and have attitude "no more" and see what will happend.
And certainly read about vampires trough books she/he recommend.

Work in progress.. ;)

What you could keep in mind, once you reach 50 posts you have access to a more hidden forum board which only can accessed by people with 50 posts. Nonetheless you can share private stuff if you like and feel comfortable here and if these are just descriptions of a situation (Names can be X and Y), no real towns need to be mentioned and so on. As said maybe wait for the "swamp board" and there you can write about it in a more safety environment and you can and should also change names of persons and towns, just like a description of a situation.

In the meantime you can start to read a recommended book that Εἰρήvη suggested or look into some forum boards.

 

[Anamarija]

What you could keep in mind, once you reach 50 posts you have access to a more hidden forum board which only can accessed by people with 50 posts.

Thank you Gawan, now is tempting to reach 50 posts faster ;). Just kidding! ;D

 

[cope]

Whithout going into details, one could rejoice like Don Juan for finding a petty tyrant to sharpen the skills on. The attack/feeding attempt uses cracks in your armour to succeed, so if it tries the ego, detach from that. If is is about material stuff, detach from that, and get the promise it is going to be replaced. Practice patience like putin. Only when attacked on the core, use full force. And there is always the chance the "vampire" finds an another, easier target.

 

[Buddy]

Hi Dakota,

To answer the question that means "how to relate to these kinds of happenings," my answer is simple: see them as testing behaviors. Whether consciously or unconsciously, people can, and will, test you to see how far they can go and what they can get away with. There are many reasons why this is so and there are many variations: some people will test you only in certain ways, some might test you up to a certain point and then start treating you well, and others may test you up to the point you run away or run them off.

In any case, you can learn some non-threatening ways to handle some of these 'bad' behaviors.

Gurdjieff, the guy whose work serves as cornerstone for this forum, came up with a concept he called "Reciprocal Maintanance." It's an advanced concept, but once understood, you can make some simple and useful deductions from it. One I made sounds like it applies like some kind of law of living organisms, and it goes like this:

Every living organism, including human beings, is either growing, becoming stronger and developing resistances and defenses or it is dying, becoming weaker and losing it's defenses and resistances. Most of us beginning this work are somewhere on the dying path and serve mainly as food for other forms of life. This is "natural" in the sense that it is just a way to return resources to the "pool" of available resources. If we want to survive, we must consciously arrest this process starting with little steps.

How to 'arrest' this process is the other side of the Reciprocal Maintaince coin, so to speak, and involves your own efforts and 'testing' processes. This is kind of what P.D. Ouspensky was talking about in your signature quote.

Experiment with ways to establish your presence and reveal your boundaries to other people.

Next time you think someone has messed with your stuff, say so. You might try something like: "when I see evidence that my stuff has been searched without my consent, it makes me mad because I can't trust that something of mine hasn't been stolen."

Or, the part behind the word 'because' in the above sentence might say: "I don't feel safe here."

You can use your own wording, but don't change the template. This approach distills about 30 years of behavioral science research into a simple sentence. Notice there are none of the typical communication roadblocks, like blaming, judging, threatening or anything like that. You are just taking a stand, bringing what's hidden to light and letting people around you know that you are a witness to bad behavior and you do not consent to it.

That's the least I would do in your situation. At the very least, the 'bad' person will get the message that you do not quietly approve of these violations of decent, respectable human behavior.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Can you go into any more specifics about the situation?

T.C., I have tried to write my post without a long story because I don't want to bather you with my life problems. I presumed that everyone had a experience with this kind of problem.
I agree with skycsil and Barbara Horts about vampire in everyone, but I'm aware (when I am) vampire in me, and the other personae is not. He cheats, he lies, steels, making bad atmospehere all day. I have dealt with all his debts, not because of him, because some else. We are stuck with him because a finance.
I'm just wondering how others deal with this challenge if you wanna called that way or just problem? In your mind how you deal with everyday living?

Bold part sounds as a good start to think on this problem. Ranting around cant help. Find a way to have your own finance (BTW, most people are not aware that they don't have enough money because they live too luxurious and love it that way, don't know how to live other way. You would be surprised how living could be simple and more or less cheap.) Or find a way to deal with the person, or more precise to deal with yourself dealing with that person.