How to make money with art?

[HowToBe]

Well, looks like an exciting opportunity dropped right in your lap!

Yes it did! It's down to the wire though. I have to get these printed and framed within tomorrow's time, so I can turn them in Thursday! Attempts today to find a specific local print shop didn't work out; it turns out they have changed their place of business without updating their website. The old empty store displayed the new store's address, but trying to find the (seemingly nonexistent) street they moved to became a wild goose chase - with an invisible goose, to boot! I've sent them a courteous e-mail to let them know they've quite possibly lost a sale over that.

Anyway. I have to ultimately select 3 images to enter. With the help of the household, I narrowed it down to just a few. I've temporarily put them on DeviantArt to post them here:

Creative Spark
_http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/256/c/6/creative_spark_by_sylverone-d49shon.png

Untitled 1
_http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/256/1/a/untitled_1_by_sylverone-d49shj2.png

Return
_http://th01.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2011/256/f/f/return_by_sylverone-d49sguo.jpg

NOTE: To view a larger (WARNING - 3600x4800!) version with much detail, see here: _http://www.deviantart.com/download/258309456/return_by_sylverone-d49sguo.jpg
Some slight detail was lost with JPEG conversion; the one I'll be printing is a Bitmap.

Insight
_http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/256/9/3/93a828522b4d8e5e162b07e1ce0821fd-d49sgfq.jpg

Molten Sky
_http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/256/c/f/molten_sky_by_sylverone-d49sg9m.jpg

All Thumbs
_http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/256/2/5/all_thumbs_by_sylverone-d49sfvt.jpg

So, there are the images, for scrutiny. I will probably get prints of all of them and depending on how those look I will decide which ones to frame.

How does that saying around here go? "A cubic centimeter of opportunity"? Sort of how I feel about this. A bit exciting, and we'll see how far my "payments" take me.

By the way, I'm wondering if it's better to submit entries under different categories to have better chances of scoring a place?

Thank you all for the help so far!

 

[NewOrleans]

HowToBe:

These images have a lot of vitality! Nice ones! If I were to pick three - and this is just my personal opinion only - it would be: Creative Spark, Return And All Thumbs. They all have subtle qualities of being like individual galaxies of color and movement. All worth a continued contemplation. As far as different categories, I don't know, use your gut reaction to that one. Wish the best for you for an exciting exhibition experience.

 

[HowToBe]

Thank you far the input, NewOrleans! Yes 'Creative Spark' has been a definite choice for me and family as well. 'Return' was basically a given for me as well, and it is large enough to produce a large print with lots of interesting detail. 'All Thumbs' isn't necessarily my favorite, but it has the resolution to print well. 'Insight' is quite a small picture, and I don't know how well a pixelated entry would do. I'm off to the shops today, with cash I've had stashed for ~5 years (I earned it during a summer job classifying plant life alongside a couple of college students)! :P

I'm going to try to use a shop that is probably used to dealing with art prints. There is a local printer shop that I've been to before, but I wasn't happy with the color quality of their printer, and when I went in yesterday and asked if they do "art quality prints", he didn't seem to know what I was talking about. So my preference is to choose a place that does T-shirts, etc.

Anyway, I'm off to try and get this done!

 

[NewOrleans]

HowToBe,
You're on the right track. If you need eventually need high quality giclee prints I can recommend a friend in Louisiana who makes perfect art prints at reasonable rates. Fast, accurate and reasonable shipping costs. But for now, you probably need quick and good. Color clarity and vividness are 99% of the sale, so work on presenting your best shot.
Good luck.
NewOrleans

 

[HowToBe]

EDIT: I apologize for the length. I'm basically journaling my experiences here, and I hope this is okay.

Okay, after MORE goose-chasing, we finally found a local printing shop, who referred us to a local graphics/sign business that can make prints at large sizes. The man there was very professional and helped us a lot with regards to our deadline. He said we probably didn't have time to get custom frames done, so he suggested that we go to the local hobby store and get frames that are close to the right sizes/ratios, and then use those to inform the image preparation.

So, we now have the frames, and I'm going to modify the images tonight to fit the frames and send them to him. He said he should have them printed within a few hours tomorrow morning which will give us time to frame them and get them submitted to the contest. I'm thinking that I will get some prints made at the "non-art" print shop as well (they can make the prints on the spot), as a partial insurance while I wait for the quality prints to materialize.

And now, I have to think about pricing; after examining the document again I notice that there is a place for me to write the price I desire to sell each piece at. So, I will want to absorb the costs of the frames and prints at least, but profit is the ideal (and if I just charged materials it would probably seem undervalued anyway). So here's the line-up:

'All Thumbs' will be printed to fit a 12"x12" black frame. Frame ($20) + Print (less than $10) = ~$30

'Return' will be printed to fit a nicely angular dark wooden frame, 18"x24". Frame ($35) + Print (~$10?) = ~$45

'Creative Spark' is the one that doesn't conform exactly to common frame width-to-height ratios. We actually bought 3 different frames and once I have experimented with the image file tonight I will determine which one is best to use, and we've been assured that we can return the unused frames to the store. So it will be either 24"x18", 16"x12", or 12"x9". The larger size is ideal as far as dimensions go, but I will have to see if it is too blurry at that size. I'm trying to make sure that the detail doesn't become too diluted during scaling.

Anyway, work time.


EDIT: Okay, got the files sent. Tomorrow will be the moment of truth.


EDIT - NEXT EVENING: Okay, picked up the prints this morning, which were just wonderful, and went straight to the hobby store to have them frame the pictures for us. Then it was straight to the exhibition site. We arrived with only 15-20 minutes to go before the deadline! I paid my entrance fee, got the frames labeled properly, and selected my mandatory 2-hour "shift" during which they will have me doing some work having to do with the show (a neat idea, I think).

For pricing, I took the total cost of materials for each painting, doubled it, and added 10% (because the art show get 10% commission). Here's what it came to:
'Creative Spark', 12"x9", $47
'All Thumbs', 12"x12", $59
'Return', 18"x24", $181 (It was quite impressive to see in frame!)

All three were entered into the "Abstract" category since nothing else fit them.
We returned to the showroom in the evening to hear the judge's commentary and see which entries won prizes. 'Creative Spark' won a "Merit Award" (3rd place in category), and 'Return' won an honorable mention. So, 3rd and 4th places in category isn't too bad! The judging was all done by a lady who is apparently a local and respected watercolor artist.

So, here are some interesting bits;

1.
When we arrived at the exhibition building and went inside to submit my entries, a guy involved with the show started asking me questions about my pictures, such as how I produced them, had I originally gotten them from online and edited them, and such. The reason is that the pictures have a lot of fine detail, but I didn't actually make all of the details by hand; they are mathematical creations generated according to my specifications (many options and variables) using some specific computer programs I have learned to use over the years. Because they were generated on a computer and not made "by hand" per se`, he was trying to determine, "Are they 'original'"? Although he dared not say it, I think this was maybe lingo for "Is it art?" :P Although I guess part of the question was wondering to what extent the image is "made for me" by the computer program. He asked some of the others to come over and after some discussion they decided that they counted as originals but also "defied category", and I was allowed to enter them as abstract digital graphics. In the evening, during the reception, he admitted to me that he almost hadn't let me in the show. Overall, he seemed friendly and a good sport in the end, though. In fact, since I'm getting a free membership to the local Art League as a compliment for entering 3 pieces, he suggested that I might be able to share with the other artists how I go about making these kinds of images at one of the monthly meets. I theorize that part of the idea would be to satisfy his and others' curiosity with this "new animal"; "Is it art?" ie "Does it take effort/work/skill to produce a good result?" So, anyway, I may get some time to introduce them to a new medium and make my arguments in its favor, which is neat.

2.
My entries were the only digital graphics entered in the show! Most entries were paintings and drawings, with a few photographs (only one was digitally edited beyond ordinary color alterations) and a handful of others including a couple sculptures. In other words, mine stood out as the only entries not made in traditional media.

3.
I may have been the youngest entrant; at the reception I was just about the only young adult there, and I think I was the only on who entered the competition.

4.
My pieces were real bargains! Most other works were priced at $200 and up (up to about $2000, I think, for the large paintings). Of course, I didn't know this until after I had set my price. It's okay, though; first-time learning experience.


So, long story short? This competition is about as new to me and my work as I am new to it! So maybe the art scene around here is somewhat traditional overall, so it'll be interesting to see how things play out if I continue to be involved.

The show will be open to the public for Friday and Saturday (the day of the local Art Fair), during which time people will be able to buy the works that are on sale. I guess I will make a final update once I have worked my shift and the whole thing is over.

Once again, apologies for length.

Time to catch up for three nights of sleep deficit.

 

[NewOrleans]

Very enjoyable reading about your experiences, HowToBe. Live and learn. Remember that when anyone asks "Is it Art?" always smile and answer YES. I'm happy for your adventure. :D

 

[HowToBe]

I'll try to make sure to get photographs of the pieces I entered tomorrow, so that you can see what they looked like in the frames.

Also, thanks for recommending your friend for printing purposes. I just looked up Giclee on wikipedia and found this:

The word "giclée" was created by Jack Duganne, a print maker working at Nash Editions. [...] He was specifically looking for a word that would not have the negative connotations of "ink-jet" or "computer generated".

Hmm, so maybe I will have to put some thought to how I refer to my work. I recall the man who almost refused my art using the words "computer generated". I'm probably going to have to be prepared to assure people that my work was created through time and/or effort. The computer is responsible for rendering the image, not making the artistic choices, in a similar way to how a photographer may not "create" the scene they decide to photograph, yet a photograph can be considered art. Maybe I should produce a series of examples to show the vast variety in what these programs can be used to produce.

I hope they sell! At the very least I'm guessing I may get $10-$25 since I got a third place.

 

[Tigersoap]

Hmm, so maybe I will have to put some thought to how I refer to my work. I recall the man who almost refused my art using the words "computer generated". I'm probably going to have to be prepared to assure people that my work was created through time and/or effort.

If I may just offer my advice on this, I'd say that you need more to look where the kind of work you do will interest people, and eventually buy it, than the other way around.

Digital art will never be as much considered as art than paintings, scuplture, photography and so on just because of that, it's digital and by essence can be reproduced ad nauseam.
It happens though, but in very specific cases because of the status of the artist or because of the specific crowd to whom it is sold.

Even if does require skills, time and effort depending on what you do it has not the same "quality" for most people as other forms of art. This should direct how much you'll charge as well.
Giclee print is more commonly used because it looks nicer and should last longer than a regular inkjet photo print, it will not remove the question on how the art was made first ;)
My two cents.

 

[NewOrleans]

Hello HoToBe. and Tigersoap,

T, you're right about the general consensus about computer art not being considered legitimate art, but that's a matter of opinion and it IS changing. Remember that at one time abstract painting was scoffed at too. Now it's considered classic 20th century fine art. It's all a matter of taste and times. You're right, thought, to suggest that maybe there are other avenues more immediately accepting if he runs into resistance.

Personally, I think that any artist who puts out skilled computer generated art is in uncharted territory, which is where contemporary artists ought to be. (Well, "ought to be" is a little too much, maybe "could be") If computers had been around in Picasso's time, I'm sure he would have jumped right in.

A giclée is a very high end quality print, that's all. And on archival paper it looks as good as any serigraph. Being one of a group of multiples doesn't diminish its value any more than lithographs. Still you have a good point: For those who refuse to accept computer generated work as fine art you can't convince them otherwise. It's NEW MEDIA and that it's a serious skill. Maybe not in home town exhibits, but internationally it has a large following.

As a side note: HowToBe what I'd also suggest in the future, as other poor artists have found, that you buy your standard size frames and/or mats in advance and make the prints to fit, rather than the other way around. Custom framing is a big expense especially when you need better-than-local-mall-hobby-shop framing. Sometimes great mats in acetate sleeves will suffice, cut costs and look presentable. Sam Flax and Binders -two art supply stores online - have pretty good deals - compared to local vendors.

Below is a well known web site of computer generated art that you might find interesting. As is the requirement here a stroke has been added to make a direct link not work - just remove it and be inspired.

_http://butdoesitfloat.com/index/filter/generative-art

::corrected spelling..

 

[SeekinTruth]

The price of a print is also determined by the size (amount) of the prints made. Giclee prints can get considerable amount of money because they're usually archival (i.e. color fast -- will not fade for decades) and limited edition. For example limited edition of 100 or 200 signed and numbered prints. There are collectors -- and this goes for photography Giclee prints, as well -- that pay hundreds of dollars for a quality Giclee limited edition print purchased from online galleries.

The galleries usually have standard sizes ranging from around 11 x 14 inches up to around 40 inch prints and limited edition size up to about 250 (at least for photography, I'm not sure about other art). The online photo limited edition galleries have an agreement with the photographer for exclusive on each image but other images can be represented by other online galleries.

So you might want to do some research to see what galleries there are for high quality limited edition prints and what the terms of the agreement are. For photography most take 20 to 50% of the sale. And there are galleries that represent photo and other fine art prints. See if you can find some that might work for you to sell your artwork through online galleries -- and they also usually make the Giclee prints from your digital files.

Edit: Just saw NewOrleans' post.

Yeah, what I mentioned is the same concept as limited edition serigraphs as far as Giclee prints go. But with computer art I'm not sure how big the market is and what prices they command as collectors seem to pay the higher prices and want limited edition high quality prints.

 

[NewOrleans]

SeekinTruth,
Hi there. You're so right: it's not an easy market to sell digital art. There is now a proliferation of global online galleries that sell and market graphics. The high commission is a big factor in selling that way. And it's a pretty crowded venue too.

Here's some, HowToBe :

www.redbubble.com
www.artslant.com
www.artflakes.com

I have an old advertising agency friend who quit to paint- now only paints portraits of people's dogs. She has a growing business. Goes to show that sometimes you need to consider what people want. I mentioned that my pet spider needed a group portrait and she laughed.

 

[Tigersoap]

Personally, I think that any artist who puts out skilled computer generated art is in uncharted territory, which is where contemporary artists ought to be.

I am not dismissing digital art at all as I've started to work in that field around 10 years ago and I sell what I do practically on a daily basis, whether it be commission or personal stuff and through diverse media (through my agent, etsy and other art-selling websites ;)
It did not happen overnight for me though but each case is different, there are so many possibilities.

It's easy to start making digital art or more commonly illustration (and the boundaries between art fields overlap a lot) but it takes either/or talent, work, courage and luck to make it a career. It's far from being easy to make a comfortable living out of it, I still don't. As with most artistic careers.

My two cents.

Remember that at one time abstract painting was scoffed at too. Now it's considered classic 20th century fine art.

The problem is to define art and what it means to make art.
Maybe this thread Positive dissociation and this post by Laura are somehow relevant imho.

Given the rise of post modernism I would not really consider abstract painting or a vast majority of modern art as being a good example.

 

[NewOrleans]

I agree, Tigersoap: so many possibilities. :)

.........................

I'd like to clarify my last remark. After having read the beginning of the tread you recommended, Tigersoap, concerning positive disassociation and daydreaming, I don't mean to imply that "everything is equal" premise - art-wise - as the post-modernists say about, well, everything. A lot of contemporary art seems to be about ego, posturing and money-making.

I want to get back to that thread and read it through!!

As for visual artists who I think have added immeasurably to the positive side of "creative disassociation": Rembrandt, William Blake, Freda Kahlo, Vincent Van Gogh, Francesco Goya and Marcel Duchamp. Plus some others probably.

Back to reading.....





::added clarification::::

 

[HowToBe]

Update! Today I checked in for my 2-hour shift (I ended up sticking around for four) walking the floor at the art show. This was the day of the Arts Festival, so there were many people wandering through, and I had some wonderful conversations with various people. This is probably the most socializing I've ever done in a day! There were at least six sales, although none of my works sold. There were about forty-seven entries, I think.

I met a very friendly man who lives in a far state from here (traveling or vacation, I guess) and we had a very enjoyable conversation. Apparently, having never been really interested in visual arts (he is a musician), he happened to wander into this building to get out of the sun, and decided to look at the artworks while he was there. It was at this time that he saw me and my nametag and we started talking. Apparently a sort of Jackson Pollock-inspired piece had really evoked something in him that he was having trouble describing; he said it was like meeting an old friend or hearing beautiful music, something he had never experienced with visual art before. So he asked me how sales worked (he had never dealt with this type of thing before) and I referred him to the people in charge of sales, and he said that my works had also stood out to him after I pointed out which ones were mine (he was curious). So he exchanged information with the artist of that piece and talked quite a bit (he could not buy it while travelling, but hoped to do so once home), and I also exchanged information with him as he was interested in seeing more of my work and maybe purchasing in the future.

There was something strange I heard about, though. Seemingly, the guy who almost didn't let me enter the show (he's the president of the league) grabbed a woman inappropriately, and also there was some nonsense where some kids were going around and falsely claiming that a woman doing free sketches was charging $10 per sketch. I heard that the president guy got kinda accusatory, saying he had "seen money exchange hands", only to later say that it was a misunderstanding. This of course upset the artist a bit. So I'm definitely going to be paying attention in case more red flags appear, and be careful concerning this man. One lady said that this was very uncharacteristic of him, and that he appeared drunk.

Hehe, altogether I walked away with $20 (for third place), three framed prints (at my expense), a very interesting set of experiences, a local art group membership, and maybe some knowledge and contacts that may or may not help me find a venue for selling my work. And a woodcarving kit (been curious since gradeschool)...

I'd say that you need more to look where the kind of work you do will interest people, and eventually buy it, than the other way around.

Yes, that makes sense. It may help if I can develop legitimacy with the local artists as well.

Giclee print is more commonly used because it looks nicer and should last longer than a regular inkjet photo print, it will not remove the question on how the art was made first ;)

My prints were made using outdoor-quality solvent inks, by a sign shop, so it should do for now. ;) I fully understand, as I did when that man grilled me with questions, that it is difficult or impossible to ascertain whether someone's digital work is genuinely theirs and original, unless you actually witnessed their creation process personally. This is part of why I'm excited at the possible opportunity of being able to demonstrate my methods to the local artists. A number of them displayed curiosity about this "new animal".

As a side note: HowToBe what I'd also suggest in the future, as other poor artists have found, that you buy your standard size frames and/or mats in advance and make the prints to fit, rather than the other way around.

This is what we did, at the suggestion of the man who did the prints for us. Thanks to his advice, we were able to enter the contest on time!

It's easy to start making digital art or more commonly illustration (and the boundaries between art fields overlap a lot) but it takes either/or talent, work, courage and luck to make it a career.

Well, if my history is any indication, maybe the talent and luck are on my side. :P :/ The Will and Courage? Working on those, with great trepidation.

The problem is to define art and what it means to make art.
Maybe this thread Positive dissociation and this post by Laura are somehow relevant imho.

Given the rise of post modernism I would not really consider abstract painting or a vast majority of modern art as being a good example.

I'm not sure that I read this directly from her, but I recall Laura saying something like "Art is the process of using a lie to communicate truth." So it sounds quite relevant to Positive Dissociation as a theory.

A lot of contemporary art seems to be about ego, posturing and money-making.

Yeah, I actually stepped out of art altogether for maybe a year (with the very occasional drawing just for fun), because I realized how much I was attention-grubbing (and I maybe became disenchanted with some subjectivism I had picked up). I'm going to really try to avoid that as I get back into it for the purpose of making art useful for myself and others. I do wonder whether that tendency of mine (attention-grubbing) is manifesting in these posts of mine, because their length does make me uncomfortable. I can tell I'm not exactly riding on waves of euphoria from people's compliments like I was once, but maybe there are other aspect or programs. Maybe I need a mirror on this one?

A thought did just strike me. In the event of an economic collapse, what kind of artwork would maintain its value (in general terms; not necessarily money) and be considered worth effort even in the hardest times. For a bit I was thinking that such art might be more objectively sound, but maybe much of it would probably take the form of positive dissociation to cope with the traumatic circumstances. Maybe I should research art from the times of the Great Depression.

Anyway, it may take a couple days to get rested up, but I will start looking into the possibilities of different ideas proposed in this thread. I also have some pictures to post once I can get identifying features removed from them.