How to tame the horse and to adjust the carriage?

[Paradigma]

Hello all

To get right to the point, I think I have a problem concerning my emotions.

At the moment I'm on holydays and I spend the first week with partially reading the articles of sott.net/sott.de and playing lots of computer. after several days I realised that my brain worked pretty slow which I refer to playing to much. Now I stopped playing computer for 4 days what was no big deal but the more my mind clears the more I see that I'm rather drifting around and partly not doing what I intended to do.

There is always this feeling I should learn more for my education as a physiotherapist but however I don't do that. There is no motivation. Instead I started to read once again here in the forum or other stuff from Gurdjieff like "Views from the real world"(VFTRW) or ISOTM.

Well reading this I also realised that this action is also just an escape from my duties.
In VFTRW Gurdjieff was talking about that a person cannot attain anything if he's not able controlling the horse (his emotions) or the carriage (his body).

Well I know my body a little bit, that means that at least I realize then it doesn't work the way it is intended to be (like feeling the dizziness of my head and that concerns me) but I have apparently hardly no clue how to use it the most effective way to give the horse the optimal foundation to be able to pull the carriage.

I started to change my nutrition circa a month ago to at first low carb and then since two weeks to glutenfree and lots of meat. Hoping to give the body the fuel that is the most suitable. So far I'm quite fond of the results for example loosing some weight and gaining muscles with hardly no effort but just jogging once a week and doing gymnastics once or twice a week. I mention that because I'm somehow proud of that...

But here once again is the point, there is no real effort in that and so I can do it, besides I like it. But learning, like sitting down for hours and studying is so hard. Perhaps I should mention that physiotherapy was not my first choice as a profession but is so far to 70% the right one. My favorite one would be psychology but it was not possible to study due to numerus clausus. None the less I also have a bit of psychology as a physiotherapist and so I'm happy with that and it is fun. What isn't fun is learning that stuff.

So regarding my motivation my horse doesn't want to go this way or at least not exactly how my mind wants to. In general I have the feeling being relatively disconnected from my emotions anyway. As Gurdjieff says the mind shouts all the time but the emotions work quite different.

Well as a board lurker and a constant reader of SOTT I know about EE but I don't do it regularly... ... that would need constant effort... But there was a time, then I did that on a more or less regular base (once or twice a week) And every second day a meditation. But first I think my meditation wasn't more than just some mind exercises, nothing that did produce some deeper consciousness except of more inner calmness, which was fading after some days. Second I did got more disconnected to other people than before. The more I made these exercises the more power came to my mind and propably I was to "thoughtfull" for some of my friends and I grew pendantic...
On the other side they seemed to act intuitively without much reflection. That was pretty sad to see, to feel the difference in behaviour so intense and I fell back into some sort of zombie state. I was propably to weak for the general law to resist.

OK, so much for that, I hope I did explain my issue understandable, cause German is my native language.
The reason why I wrote that is, I need feedback. I've always done all my spiritual way on my own, due to having except one person no one with whom I can talk to in detail and I see that my results are rather little than rich and with no concrete aim. I need to know where I stand objectively and what my failures are.
Please ask right away if you have a question, I would be very thankfull for every contribution.

 

[Mr.Anderson]

Struggling with emotions is something we all do, I think. So you are not alone and you are in the right place. Seeing objectively as apposed to subjectively is often a challenge for me as well. I try to look at the root of what causes me to have an emotional reaction. Always some program, some lie that I believe in.

Have you read "In Search of the Miraculous" by Ouspenski?

What do you mean by playing computer? Is that a game (distraction) or do you mean being on the computer?

I would not worry about your English, it's fine.

 

[obyvatel]

I started to change my nutrition circa a month ago to at first low carb and then since two weeks to glutenfree and lots of meat. Hoping to give the body the fuel that is the most suitable. So far I'm quite fond of the results for example loosing some weight and gaining muscles with hardly no effort but just jogging once a week and doing gymnastics once or twice a week. I mention that because I'm somehow proud of that...

But here once again is the point, there is no real effort in that and so I can do it, besides I like it.

Making the dietary adjustments that you have made is an important step. It may may have been easy for you but that does not diminish the value of that step :).

[quote author=paradigma]
But learning, like sitting down for hours and studying is so hard.
[/quote]

Can you give some details as to what exactly you find hard to study? You have read/are reading ISOTM and VFTRW - not exactly easy bedside reads imo.

[quote author=paradigma]
Perhaps I should mention that physiotherapy was not my first choice as a profession but is so far to 70% the right one. My favorite one would be psychology but it was not possible to study due to numerus clausus. None the less I also have a bit of psychology as a physiotherapist and so I'm happy with that and it is fun. What isn't fun is learning that stuff.
[/quote]

Can you clarify what you mean by the above bolded quote?

[quote author=paradigma]
In general I have the feeling being relatively disconnected from my emotions anyway. As Gurdjieff says the mind shouts all the time but the emotions work quite different.
[/quote]

Have you read any of the recommended psychology books - like "Narcissistic Family", "Myth of Sanity" or "Trapped in the Mirror"? The disconnect with emotions is very common among most people and the psychology books help in understanding what may be going on.

[quote author=paradigma]
Well as a board lurker and a constant reader of SOTT I know about EE but I don't do it regularly... ... that would need constant effort... But there was a time, then I did that on a more or less regular base (once or twice a week) And every second day a meditation. But first I think my meditation wasn't more than just some mind exercises, nothing that did produce some deeper consciousness except of more inner calmness, which was fading after some days. Second I did got more disconnected to other people than before. The more I made these exercises the more power came to my mind and propably I was to "thoughtfull" for some of my friends and I grew pendantic...
On the other side they seemed to act intuitively without much reflection. That was pretty sad to see, to feel the difference in behaviour so intense and I fell back into some sort of zombie state. I was propably to weak for the general law to resist.
[/quote]

EE/POTS works cumulatively over time. Even though at this point you may be thinking that it is mind exercises which just produced inner calmness (which is not to be under-estimated imo), if you stick with it, you will see deeper changes. There are numerous testimonials to provide statistical proof that it does work with cleansing emotional blockage and promote beneficial psychological changes at a deep level. But you have to see the results for yourself to believe it. And for that, you have to keep doing it as recommended. :)

Regarding your experience with your friends, it seems that you did see some results with EE which you felt was alienating you from your friends. Similar experiences are shared by many in the forum. This is a relevant quote about Ouspensky's experiences in ISOTM
[quote author=ISOTM]
Our talks about people who could be interested in the system and able to work, involuntarily led us towards a valuation of our friends from an entirely new point of view. In this respect we all experienced bitter disappointment. Even before G. had formally requested us to speak of the system to our friends we had of course all tried in one way or another to talk about it at any rate with those of them whom we met most often. And in most cases our enthusiasm in regard to the ideas of the system met with a very cold reception. They did not understand us; the ideas which seemed to us new and original seemed to our friends to be old and tedious, leading nowhere, and even repellent. This astonished us more than anything else. We were amazed that people with whom we had felt an inner intimacy, with whom in former times we had been able to talk about all questions that worried us, and in whom we had found a response, could fail to see what we saw and above all that they could see something quite opposite. I have to say that, in regard to my own personal experience, it gave me a very strange even painful impression.
...........................
I do not remember now who was the first to notice that our friends found we had begun to change for the worse. They found us less interesting than we had been before; they told us we were becoming colorless, as though we were fading, were losing our former spontaneity, our former responsiveness to everything, that we were becoming "machines," were ceasing to think originally, were ceasing to feel, that we were merely repeating like parrots what we heard from G.
G. laughed a great deal when we told him about this.
"Wait, there is worse to come," he said. "Do you understand what this really means? It means that you have stopped lying; at any rate you don't lie so well, that is, you can no longer lie in so interesting a way as before. He is an interesting man who lies well. But you are already ashamed of lying. You are now able to acknowledge to yourselves sometimes that there is something you do not know or do not understand, and you cannot talk as if you knew all about everything. It means of course that you have become less interesting, less original, and less, as they say, responsive. So now you are really able to see what sort of people your friends are. And on their part they are sorry for you. And in their own way they are right. You have already begun to die." He emphasized this word. "It is a long way yet to complete death but still a certain amount of silliness is going out of you. You can no longer deceive yourselves as sincerely as you did before. You have now got the taste of truth."
[/quote]

It is generally recommended that we try to restrain the impulse to share whatever we learn with others indiscriminately. This helps us from feeding our own self-importance since we may appear more knowledgeable than others once we start learning about these topics. Our friends may not necessarily want to learn about the cool things that we are learning - after all it is their choice.

So what you have faced with your friends is expected. It may be useful to look up and periodically revisit the concepts of internal and external considering and strategic enclosure in this context.

You can always network your thoughts and feelings with the forum here. Instead of fitting in our existing friends with the Work, it is easier to make new friends with people who are walking in the same direction :)

fwiw

 

[Paradigma]

@ Mr.Anderson and obyvatel thank you for your replies.

Struggling with emotions is something we all do, I think. So you are not alone and you are in the right place. Seeing objectively as apposed to subjectively is often a challenge for me as well. I try to look at the root of what causes me to have an emotional reaction. Always some program, some lie that I believe in.

Have you read "In Search of the Miraculous" by Ouspenski?

Yes once completely and now I'm half way through for the second time. It's mind blowing how different it is, reading that book for a second time. But reading it takes some time, a quick go through isn't worthwhile.
Trying to look at the root of my learning difficulties is very difficult for me at the moment. Propably it's boring and I have no concrete vision of what to do, but I will come back to that topic later in my post.

What do you mean by playing computer? Is that a game (distraction) or do you mean being on the computer?

I meant games. For pastimes I played two tower defence games and usually I play Counter Strike pretty much. But my laptop overheats so fast so I can play just for half an hour or so before it crashes. Definitely has to mean something :D So CS reduced to perhaps one or two hours a week but could be ceased completely. Anyway I don't enjoy it as much as I did in the past.

I would not worry about your English, it's fine.

Thanks :) seems to pay off having read tons of that stuff in English :)

Making the dietary adjustments that you have made is an important step. It may may have been easy for you but that does not diminish the value of that step :).

Good to hear :)

Laziness is one of my major programs. But it is a "selective" laziness - I have trouble working on boring and "not fun" things (and delay it as much as possible) or maintaining the same drive while doing things which require constant pressure and effort, or doing things which are not part of my routine. And after reading the following post
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5732.msg40337#msg40337

The work of the emotional part requires full attention but in this part of the centre attention does not require any effort. It is attracted and held by the subject itself, very often through identification, which usually is called 'interest,' or 'enthusiasm,' or' passion,' or 'devotion'

The intellectual part of the intellectual centre includes in itself a capacity for creation, construction, invention and discovery. It cannot work without attention, but the attention in this part of the centre must be controlled and kept there by will and effort.

I understood that the real problem is lack of sufficient will - something that must be done with attention and effort. And while I have no problem doing something that belongs to mechanical or emotional part of intellectual center, I need to do real effort to concentrate on intellectual part of intellectual center.

Maybe that's why writing about something "from the heart" or while being externally considered and writing in the way others may benefit can be very exhausting. And that's why when you write about something that you like and it "burns" inside you just to spill it out, you feel like your fingers are "flying" while typing without any real effort. Not to mention instant messaging, which is probably completely mechanical :)
Apparently the key is conscious effort, be it intellectual or emotional (conscious suffering?) or of the moving center (necessary sport after sitting all day on the buttocks ;))

Unfortunately, in many cases (if not most) predator still "help" me to postpone the doing by inventing countless excuses and activating "I am useless anyway" programs. Well, something to work on :)

In addition to that the lack of attention could also result from having no concrete vision of what I want to do. There is this formula: plan, do and check.
Well, I know i should do something but it seems that I don't want to use my brain for the how I want to do, the plan. Planing things right won't create an emotional desire within me for doing things but at least it could help maintaining focus on my aims... Am I right, this requires constant effort to plan, do, check, replan, redo, recheck and with that it requires so much energy that I should immediately stop wasting time and energy for example with playing computer?
But the issue of saving energy and recharging centers is something I didn't got completely. For example, in the time, I have separated from my friends, I had a relatively clear mind, perhaps a little bit pendantic but clear. But after a while I felt sad, disconnected and somehow depleted. My thoughts were running wild with analyzing relationships, dialogues, events, politics, esotheric, psychology and so on. I also didn't play computer at that period, propably two or three weeks and tryed to be more authentic or genuine or something like that. But this stream of thoughts became very dominant and with the time it got also to heavy for me. Like a curse, on the one side to see how shallow my enviroment was, and on the other side the inability to stop that judging. This made me a little sad and frustrated. So on one weekend I came home and thought, OK let's have some fun, let's play computer. OK I did and afterwards my head didn't feel so heavy anymore. My spirits raised and I saw things less depressing.
What did happen? Of course needless to say, I played more computer for the good feeling, but with playing more, the positive effect was more and more gone, instead dizzyness grew.
Did my extraordinary work of my thinking center deplete the other centers so much, du to external considering and with playing games I didn't consider at all for a while so I had a rest?

[quote author=obyvatel][quote author=paradigma]
Perhaps I should mention that physiotherapy was not my first choice as a profession but is so far to 70% the right one. My favorite one would be psychology but it was not possible to study due to numerus clausus. None the less I also have a bit of psychology as a physiotherapist and so I'm happy with that and it is fun. What isn't fun is learning that stuff.
[/quote]

Can you clarify what you mean by the above bolded quote? [/quote]

Like mentioned before, there is no burning desire from my heart to do that. An intellectual one definitely but that provides not that much power for my will to do.

[quote author=obyvatel][quote author=paradigma]
In general I have the feeling being relatively disconnected from my emotions anyway. As Gurdjieff says the mind shouts all the time but the emotions work quite different.
[/quote]

Have you read any of the recommended psychology books - like "Narcissistic Family", "Myth of Sanity" or "Trapped in the Mirror"? The disconnect with emotions is very common among most people and the psychology books help in understanding what may be going on.
[/quote]

No... not yet... So much to read and so less time... And I also have not that much money but I guess, Knowledge has it's price... And I definitely have certain narcisstic character traits.

[quote author=obyvatel][quote author=paradigma]
Well as a board lurker and a constant reader of SOTT I know about EE but I don't do it regularly... ... that would need constant effort... But there was a time, then I did that on a more or less regular base (once or twice a week) And every second day a meditation. But first I think my meditation wasn't more than just some mind exercises, nothing that did produce some deeper consciousness except of more inner calmness, which was fading after some days. Second I did got more disconnected to other people than before. The more I made these exercises the more power came to my mind and propably I was to "thoughtfull" for some of my friends and I grew pendantic...
On the other side they seemed to act intuitively without much reflection. That was pretty sad to see, to feel the difference in behaviour so intense and I fell back into some sort of zombie state. I was propably to weak for the general law to resist.
[/quote]

EE/POTS works cumulatively over time. Even though at this point you may be thinking that it is mind exercises which just produced inner calmness (which is not to be under-estimated imo), if you stick with it, you will see deeper changes. There are numerous testimonials to provide statistical proof that it does work with cleansing emotional blockage and promote beneficial psychological changes at a deep level. But you have to see the results for yourself to believe it. And for that, you have to keep doing it as recommended. :)[/quote]

I don't know why I don' keep doing that, besides once I was so disappointed by a girl that I even got the feeling of becoming sick but I thought that this isn't worth. So I started pipe breath while meditation and within an half hour I got from a state of mere depression to euphoria. Was pretty crazy but felt good. Somehow I was not able to reproduce that :/

[quote author=obyvatel]
Regarding your experience with your friends, it seems that you did see some results with EE which you felt was alienating you from your friends. Similar experiences are shared by many in the forum. This is a relevant quote about Ouspensky's experiences in ISOTM
[quote author=ISOTM]
Our talks about people who could be interested in the system and able to work, involuntarily led us towards a valuation of our friends from an entirely new point of view. In this respect we all experienced bitter disappointment. Even before G. had formally requested us to speak of the system to our friends we had of course all tried in one way or another to talk about it at any rate with those of them whom we met most often. And in most cases our enthusiasm in regard to the ideas of the system met with a very cold reception. They did not understand us; the ideas which seemed to us new and original seemed to our friends to be old and tedious, leading nowhere, and even repellent. This astonished us more than anything else. We were amazed that people with whom we had felt an inner intimacy, with whom in former times we had been able to talk about all questions that worried us, and in whom we had found a response, could fail to see what we saw and above all that they could see something quite opposite. I have to say that, in regard to my own personal experience, it gave me a very strange even painful impression.
...........................
I do not remember now who was the first to notice that our friends found we had begun to change for the worse. They found us less interesting than we had been before; they told us we were becoming colorless, as though we were fading, were losing our former spontaneity, our former responsiveness to everything, that we were becoming "machines," were ceasing to think originally, were ceasing to feel, that we were merely repeating like parrots what we heard from G.
G. laughed a great deal when we told him about this.
"Wait, there is worse to come," he said. "Do you understand what this really means? It means that you have stopped lying; at any rate you don't lie so well, that is, you can no longer lie in so interesting a way as before. He is an interesting man who lies well. But you are already ashamed of lying. You are now able to acknowledge to yourselves sometimes that there is something you do not know or do not understand, and you cannot talk as if you knew all about everything. It means of course that you have become less interesting, less original, and less, as they say, responsive. So now you are really able to see what sort of people your friends are. And on their part they are sorry for you. And in their own way they are right. You have already begun to die." He emphasized this word. "It is a long way yet to complete death but still a certain amount of silliness is going out of you. You can no longer deceive yourselves as sincerely as you did before. You have now got the taste of truth."
[/quote]

It is generally recommended that we try to restrain the impulse to share whatever we learn with others indiscriminately. This helps us from feeding our own self-importance since we may appear more knowledgeable than others once we start learning about these topics. Our friends may not necessarily want to learn about the cool things that we are learning - after all it is their choice. [/quote]
It is possible with some certain people to at least talk about concepts like the one of body, heart, mind but you are right, for them, it's no use and they are propably just so kind letting me talk. :) Interesstingly these conversations (monologues :) ) only happen while smoking hookha. And yes, you are right to, they feed the self-importance.

[quote author=obyvatel]
So what you have faced with your friends is expected. It may be useful to look up and periodically revisit the concepts of internal and external considering and strategic enclosure in this context.

You can always network your thoughts and feelings with the forum here. Instead of fitting in our existing friends with the Work, it is easier to make new friends with people who are walking in the same direction :)

fwiw
[/quote]

Thanks again to both of you, Mr.Anderson and obyvatel for your very helpfull replies and I will definitely read the both links, hopefully on a periodical base and also buy some of the big five about psycopathy.
I have a question concerning the interactions with others who are shallow, like some of my friends. Nevertheless I like them for their warm hearts, does this contradict to that what Ouspensky says in your quote. I mean, will the point come that this relation breaks up? Cause I fell, that withdrawing from them now would cause great emotional disturbance. I would really feel being alone.

 

[Mr.Anderson]

I have a question concerning the interactions with others who are shallow, like some of my friends. Nevertheless I like them for their warm hearts, does this contradict to that what Ouspensky says in your quote. I mean, will the point come that this relation breaks up? Cause I fell, that withdrawing from them now would cause great emotional disturbance. I would really feel being alone.

I don't think it's necessary to force anything. I would maintain your superficial relationships as long as you are aware of what you are doing. You can withdraw at your own pace when it happens naturally.

Sometimes we make progress even when we think we are not. Your recognition of some of these difficulties is progress in itself.

 

[obyvatel]

For example, learning anatomy is boring and is delayed as far as possible. Or learning physiology. But I can do so if I have the necessary pressure in form of a test or so. If I try to learn on a constant level my attention gets caught by numerous things and thoughts and I quickly loose track. But on the other side reading the Wave series or ISOTM, I was able to maintain my attention for hours. Well with ISOTM not that long but still for one or two hours. It seems to be there is a burning desire to learn about that and not about the things that are necessary for my job. But from an intellectual point of view I still find physiotherapy interessting even anatomy or physiology but there is no burning desire to master that.

Thanks for the clarification. I think it could be said that for most normal human beings, learning is easier when the topic appears interesting. And sometimes, a topic may become interesting when we have a sense of where it fits in a bigger scheme of things. If you continue to learn more about the Work and yourself and helping others, it is a possibility that someday the topics of anatomy and physiology would come "alive".

You mentioned that you find physiotherapy intellectually interesting. Do you presently see clients/patients and help them get better - or plan on doing so in the future ? If so, then you can use your job as a vehicle to practice some aspects of the Work. This is the beauty of 4th Way Work that whatever it is that we do in regular life can serve the purpose of the Work. It takes some effort and practice to start seeing things in this way but once we start viewing every interaction that we have with others and every activity that we do by ourselves as an opportunity to learn more about our own selves and the world at large, things start to get interesting.

But to get to that stage, it is important to articulate an aim and periodically revisit it and refine it if necessary. One can start with small things and move on to bigger ones. You may find the cassiopedia entry on aim useful.


[quote author=Paradigma]
In addition to that the lack of attention could also result from having no concrete vision of what I want to do. There is this formula: plan, do and check.
Well, I know i should do something but it seems that I don't want to use my brain for the how I want to do, the plan. Planing things right won't create an emotional desire within me for doing things but at least it could help maintaining focus on my aims... Am I right, this requires constant effort to plan, do, check, replan, redo, recheck and with that it requires so much energy that I should immediately stop wasting time and energy for example with playing computer?
[/quote]

The aim that you choose for yourself should ideally come from your heart - it is something that you really wish. This aim serves as a compass for your activities. If what you choose to do is in alignment with your aim, you are on track. Otherwise, you are not and it is up to you to evaluate and change course if necessary. If playing games in the computer is keeping you from following your aim, then you have to choose whether to follow your aim or not. Slips happen, they are common - and the idea is not beat oneself up after every slip but rather get back up and do better the next time around.

[quote author=Paradigma]
But the issue of saving energy and recharging centers is something I didn't got completely. For example, in the time, I have separated from my friends, I had a relatively clear mind, perhaps a little bit pendantic but clear. But after a while I felt sad, disconnected and somehow depleted. My thoughts were running wild with analyzing relationships, dialogues, events, politics, esotheric, psychology and so on. I also didn't play computer at that period, propably two or three weeks and tryed to be more authentic or genuine or something like that. But this stream of thoughts became very dominant and with the time it got also to heavy for me. Like a curse, on the one side to see how shallow my enviroment was, and on the other side the inability to stop that judging. This made me a little sad and frustrated. So on one weekend I came home and thought, OK let's have some fun, let's play computer. OK I did and afterwards my head didn't feel so heavy anymore. My spirits raised and I saw things less depressing.
What did happen? Of course needless to say, I played more computer for the good feeling, but with playing more, the positive effect was more and more gone, instead dizzyness grew.
[/quote]
This type of "tug-of-war" is common. Different parts of ourselves are in conflict with each other. Some parts want to go back to the old way of things whereas the other parts do not. Sometimes the parts which have an affinity for the Work on the self are able to control our actions - sometimes they are pushed to the background by other well-entrenched parts which like the old status quo.

Another way to look at it is that when we get used to some particular food (which may not be good for our health) and we were to stop taking it - there are withdrawal symptoms. The same is true for habits and relationships. Withdrawal is hard and in the beginning, the force of willpower may not be enough to keep us from going back to the same behaviors. So it may make sense to develop alternate habits which are more aligned to our aims. For example, maybe you could look into some form of physical activity that increases body awareness to take up the time you spend with computer games? The activity should ideally engage both the body and the mind instead of being only a physical activity like pumping iron for example. This is just a suggestion for your consideration.

[quote author=Paradigma]
I have a question concerning the interactions with others who are shallow, like some of my friends. Nevertheless I like them for their warm hearts, does this contradict to that what Ouspensky says in your quote. I mean, will the point come that this relation breaks up? Cause I fell, that withdrawing from them now would cause great emotional disturbance. I would really feel being alone.
[/quote]

You do not need to take Ouspensky's comments as truth. I quoted that section to highlight the fact that such experiences with friends does seem to happen quite often and others have been in similar situations as you. How you choose to deal with your personal situation is really up to you. You could hang out with your friends while not being drawn into activities which you would like to avoid. You could use the opportunity of interacting with your friends to self-observe and start keeping a private journal where you write down your thoughts and feelings. How the relationships develop in the future is something time will tell.
OSIT

 

[Paradigma]

Thank you again for your answers, energy and time you spend to help me. Thank you, I appreciate it :)

I don't think it's necessary to force anything. I would maintain your superficial relationships as long as you are aware of what you are doing. You can withdraw at your own pace when it happens naturally.

Sometimes we make progress even when we think we are not. Your recognition of some of these difficulties is progress in itself.

You do not need to take Ouspensky's comments as truth. I quoted that section to highlight the fact that such experiences with friends does seem to happen quite often and others have been in similar situations as you. How you choose to deal with your personal situation is really up to you. You could hang out with your friends while not being drawn into activities which you would like to avoid. You could use the opportunity of interacting with your friends to self-observe and start keeping a private journal where you write down your thoughts and feelings. How the relationships develop in the future is something time will tell.
OSIT

Mhm, thank you, I understand what you mean. What happens is OK, I won't push anything concerning that.

[quote author=obyvatel]
You mentioned that you find physiotherapy intellectually interesting. Do you presently see clients/patients and help them get better - or plan on doing so in the future ? If so, then you can use your job as a vehicle to practice some aspects of the Work. This is the beauty of 4th Way Work that whatever it is that we do in regular life can serve the purpose of the Work. It takes some effort and practice to start seeing things in this way but once we start viewing every interaction that we have with others and every activity that we do by ourselves as an opportunity to learn more about our own selves and the world at large, things start to get interesting.

But to get to that stage, it is important to articulate an aim and periodically revisit it and refine it if necessary. One can start with small things and move on to bigger ones. You may find the cassiopedia entry on aim useful. [/quote]

Yes I already meet patients/clients and I also try to at least remember myself. Really not easy to do that. But having been capable to do sometimes is a good feeling and does pay off, as I think. Seems to make me calmer and helps me to relativate certain things.
The cassiopedia entry on aim is very usefull! I figured out that my aims are very often too big for me to handle and that I should do little aims. Concerning my learning habits, I think I shouldn't try to change them in general, at least not all together at once. But just to do what is really necessary. So far I don't have major understanding difficulties with my subject matter but sure some minor ones. So I can pick them.
The difference for me with that is, I don't have the feeling doing something big, propably to big to handel and to maintain.

[quote author=GurdjieffVFTRW]
Question What must I do? Answer: There are two kinds of doing - automatic doing, and doing according to aim. Take a small thing which you now are not able to do, and make this your aim, your God. Let nothing interfere. Only aim at this. Then, if you succeed in doing this, will be able to give you a greater task. Now you have an ap-to do things too big for you. This is an abnormal appe-tite. You can never do these things, and this appetite keeps you from doing the small things you might do. Destroy this appetites forget big things. Make the breaking of a small habit your aim.[/quote]

[quote author=obyvatel]
The aim that you choose for yourself should ideally come from your heart - it is something that you really wish. This aim serves as a compass for your activities. If what you choose to do is in alignment with your aim, you are on track. Otherwise, you are not and it is up to you to evaluate and change course if necessary. If playing games in the computer is keeping you from following your aim, then you have to choose whether to follow your aim or not. Slips happen, they are common - and the idea is not beat oneself up after every slip but rather get back up and do better the next time around. [/quote]

I see in VFTRW Gurdjieff is also saying that mind cannot attain anything. For example self-remembering. Thus it is only fueled by very little substance it's rapidly depleted and this is why our aims should come from heart because the emotional center does have vast amounts of energy. I see and understand that. I had once this experience then I studied mechatronics, I got so frustrated by this whole stuff of mathematics that I was literally forced to realise that this way I had chosen was just made up by my mind. So I quit it almost immediately and was very happy about my decision. My friends were also relieved to see that finally I came to my sense, cause they knew that this doesn't suit me. Also my family was happy with that.
I think the concept of self-remembering has to be established much deeper within me, thus I'm not that much able to feel it in an emotional and physical way.
Your suggestion to learn this by doing some sport is a good one and I also started to implement it, with gymnastics. I think doing summersaults and stuff like that requires the full concentration of my body and mind and is also fun. :) But I also saw that just doing the tricks I'm used to do without evolving to new techniques make my routines less interesting by the mind. They are still a good exercise none the less.
Fascinating to see is also how other people interfere with concentration. The less people are around, especially less talented one, the better my concentration is. Well nothing new but seems to be a piece of the puzzle.
Regarding playing computer I've got to say that it doesn't interest me at all at moment. Propably a good sign that I start becoming more goal-oriented :)

Thanks again for your efforts to read my posts, thinking about it and answering in such a helpfull way. Cause I see how much time and energy it cost's to answer this. :) Thank you very much Mr.Anderson and obyvatel! :)

 

[Paradigma]

I've got to add, with having become calmer now and not always bashing on myself because of having not attained my aimes, I don't feel so hungry anymore and require less food. Fascinating how much energy mind and emotion need, if they are in a state of anxiety or frustration.