hlat said:
Flashgordonv said:
hlat said:
I don't think you should get the vaccine.
After that, your choice is telling your son that you will not get the vaccine, or lying to him. I don't think you should lie to him, but if you tell the truth then you would also need accept the possibility that he might not let you see your granddaughter. Your son unfortunately has the free will to decide that he will have his children vaccinated. If you decide to lie to him, then you would need to accept the possibility that you might incur bad karma or his anger if he finds out that you lied. It's one thing to lie defensively to protect yourself. It's another thing to lie offensively.
Hlat, I really don't think that this would be lying offensively at all. And I don't think it would incur bad karma either. It seems to me that this is external consideration for Laurel's son combined with consideration for her own health. All of that seems to be in line with the work as I understand it.
I guess I don't understand why lying to the son is necessary in this situation.
Seriously? Are you completely unable to put yourself in Laurelayn's position?
I don't see a threat to Laurie's survival and well being, such as losing a home, losing a job, losing food, going to prison. It's understandable the desire to be with a new grandchild.
Have you seen Start Trek? You sound like a Vulcan who is unlearned in the ways of the humans.
However, the son is in charge of his children. If the son has required certain conditions for his children, I would not break those conditions. That's his free will.
Through the son's lack of knowledge, he is putting his entire family at risk: physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and risking the familial bond and relationship. The implied choice that he is making Laurelayn face is going to either hurt her physically or hurt her and the whole family emotionally.
A grandmother is supposed to be a part of a child's life, and her grandchild and her son cannot replace the enormous value that Laurelayn can bring to their lives.
So you have someone acting from sheer ignorance, putting his family at risk. And Laurelayn has the ability to mitigate the damage done to her and her family by telling one, little, white lie.
If I was the son, and I somehow learned that my mom lied to me, I would be incredibly upset and justifiably so.
Not getting the vaccine and not seeing granddaughter is an option.
Yes, but it's a horrible option - a horrible option which would then not just be caused by the son's ignorance, but by your arrogance - and it doesn't have to come to that.
If I were in Laurie's position, I would explain to the son that I think a vaccine is harmful for my health so I won't get one. I would also express my desire to see my granddaughter. I would also say to the son that I understand if you won't let me see my granddaughter but I hope you reconsider and let me know if you decide that I can see her.
There are times when people are going to put us in situations where we, and even they, will be harmed because of their choices or views and opinions. In such situations, we have the right to act in the best interest of ourselves, and if there's a way to act in the best interest of ALL involved, then that is the correct way to act.
I don't think your approach of steadfastly and coldly declaring your position based on your rigid principles, to hell with everyone else in the world, is of benefit to anyone in this scenario.
Do you see that there are alternatives that don't involve anyone getting hurt?
On external considering:
In Fourth Way parlance, external considering is the practice of taking others into account when acting, seeing their situation as it is and accordingly making life easy both for oneself and for others. Internal considering is the opposite – acting out of a subjective inner state and view of the situation to which one is attached, with any of a number of consequences.
External considering involves making a realistic evaluation of another's situation and acting in ways which take this into account in a positive sense. It is however not the same thing as being socially polite or considerate, although it may be expressed in this manner.
The key concept is to be aware of and to adapt oneself to the level of being and knowledge of others. Thus, one of the things external considering involves is to avoid talking about things which would simply offend others' beliefs or simply not be understood. (See strategic enclosure for more on this.) More generally, external considering relates to an idea of good will towards the environment, in the sense of letting the environment be as it wishes and responding to its requests in a manner that honors its right to be as it will.
External considering is rooted in objective awareness of the environment. Its opposite, internal considering, is rooted in attachment to a subjective inner state, to one's own comfort of preconceptions or desires.
External and internal considering are not always outwardly distinguishable, although inwardly they are fundamentally different. One may for example be socially pleasing purely in order to uphold or reinforce one's own idea of oneself as a 'good person.' Or, be nice out of fear of being judged by others. This is internal considering and preoccupation with how others/the self perceive the self.
In some cases, external considering may involve withholding information that is seen as inappropriate, dangerous or simply unlikely to be well received. An internally considering person may also do this, but then again the motive is different.
We cannot codify with external criteria which action constitutes which kind of considering. The concepts are related to service to others vs service to self and to objectivity vs subjectivity. Usually the term considering is applied in the context of personal interactions.
Only through having external considering can one serve others. This requires responsiveness and a sense of objectivity and awareness of what is right action for the given situation. Serving in the sense of merely carrying out commands is not external considering.
