'I screamed, but there was nothing to hear'

[dannybananny]

When it was known what it was, or when they had an idea of what it was, there was one neurologist telling her sister (mother of the child) all the time: ''Why do you continue feeding the baby? Just let him die.''

It's always easier to say such a thing when it's not your child. Today's healthcare is all about money, if you pay them they will take a good care for you, but if not they can wait until you're dead.

 

[Gawan]

One mistake or misdiagnose can cause a lot of trouble, even a living Hell, that's why it's so important to Know what one is doing. Especially when it's about the health of another. I sometimes have the feeling that many people in the ''medicine'' world just don't care that much.

There comes networking to my mind, to have a wider view of one patient for example.
And along hierarchies it seems difficult to speak up, one on top doesn't like it to be questioned, and the one on a lower rank doesn't like to because of being criticized what he thinks he is actually doing, of questioning the authority.

But luckily there are also other examples. In my case there is every week a meeting of different fields: doctors, psychologists, therapists, nurses, social workers... and discussing the situation of each patient, what seems best for him. Well, unfortunately this is an exception, cause of money, looking for fast solutions: "to name, blame and treat" illnesses among others.

 

[Biomiast]

Reading this story brought to mind Terri Shiavo, and the fact that her mother kept insisting she was still alive.

It's unimaginable what Rom Houben must have experienced. 23 years? The mind boggles!

Nice to hear from you again bedower. :)

Definitely.
Great to have you around again, bedower.

Same here! :D

Yeah, bedower, we all missed you. Especially Oxajil was very concerned, you can search your name in her posts. :)

One mistake or misdiagnose can cause a lot of trouble, even a living Hell, that's why it's so important to Know what one is doing. Especially when it's about the health of another. I sometimes have the feeling that many people in the ''medicine'' world just don't care that much.

When it was known what it was, or when they had an idea of what it was, there was one neurologist telling her sister (mother of the child) all the time: ''Why do you continue feeding the baby? Just let him die.''
It is said that people with this condition die at a young age. I think it's very inappropriate to say such a thing. And she alone was not the only one who was not friendly, there were many walking around.

Some people in the ''medicine world'' just don't care (anymore)...

When I finished high school, my grandparents wanted me to become a doctor. Apart from other obvious reasons like drug companies running medical businesses and misdiagnosing issues like you mentioned, I refused to go to medical school because I knew I couldn't handle all those heartbreaking stories and incidents. I did my internship in a hospital last summer, our building was pretty much isolated from the rest of the hospital, but there was a time I had to get into the actual hospital. I was about to cry with my first step into the building. Even outside the building there was a man in a bed, probably a cancer patient, it was too painful to see, at least for me.

As for your story, I tend to think that some people in the medicine world eventually shut out those stories and incidents, otherwise they go crazy, or at least I know I would. Some of them become really insensitive and rude as it was in your example. I agree with you that it is inappropriate to say such a thing, but from that person's perspective probably it was "not giving any false hope". They want other people to move on with their loses because they have to move on also. And I am not talking about everybody here, just a part of the medical world. These are just my observations from the doctors in my family and those who I have encountered, and they may be wrong, but that's how I see the situation right now.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author=Oxajil]Some people in the ''medicine world'' just don't care (anymore)...[/quote]

A girl I know who is studying medicine once told me that quite a few of her fellow students when working at the academic hospital refused to clean up the beds since that kind of work is supposed to be done by the nurses.


Around 0.5 year ago in the Netherlands statistics where released what showed the total amounts of medical errors which has caused deaths. They where high.

Some investigations started and for some weeks it was closely followed by the media. At the end, the discussions where formed that in order for doctors to work properly a high amount of egoisms is required. Since if doctors are concerned about the welfare/life of there patients. It just distracts them.

Do I have to say anything more than Ponerization

 

[bedower]

[quote author=vulcan59 today] On searching for similar stories, I came across premature burial where the person is buried in the mistaken belief or diagnosis that he/she is dead!! [/quote]

In the late 80s/90s, I had a neighbour who worked at the local mental hospital. He was also a Freemason and Rosicrucian so was really into the paranormal and ESP. He once told me that there had been a few occasions when he'd been laying out a corpse with a colleague and he had actually felt that this person was still alive. When I asked him if he had ever alerted anyone about it, he said (paraphrased); 'What would be the point? He has been declared dead by the doctor. They are not going to listen to my intuitions.' I was rather shocked by this and asked him if it ever bothered him. He just shrugged, and reiterated that no-one would have listened to him or believed him. Considering the kinds of drugs that are given to mental patients, it's quite possible that the drugs and/or dosages could put people into these kinds of catatonic states, osit.

(OT. Thanks Vulcan59 for your article on 'Forum Lurkers'. I could still feel your cattle prod days after I read it! ;))

(Still OT. Thanks - a big virtual hug from me. :))

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

[quote author=vulcan59 today] On searching for similar stories, I came across premature burial where the person is buried in the mistaken belief or diagnosis that he/she is dead!!

In the late 80s/90s, I had a neighbour who worked at the local mental hospital. He was also a Freemason and Rosicrucian so was really into the paranormal and ESP. He once told me that there had been a few occasions when he'd been laying out a corpse with a colleague and he had actually felt that this person was still alive. When I asked him if he had ever alerted anyone about it, he said (paraphrased); 'What would be the point? He has been declared dead by the doctor. They are not going to listen to my intuitions.' I was rather shocked by this and asked him if it ever bothered him. He just shrugged, and reiterated that no-one would have listened to him or believed him. Considering the kinds of drugs that are given to mental patients, it's quite possible that the drugs and/or dosages could put people into these kinds of catatonic states, osit.

(OT. Thanks Vulcan59 for your article on 'Forum Lurkers'. I could still feel your cattle prod days after I read it! ;))

(Still OT. Thanks - a big virtual hug from me. :))
[/quote]

Okay, now that's seriously disturbing. If this person really did have the ability to tell if people were still alive, and he didn't at least TRY to alert the appropriate people, then surely that borders on someone with no conscience, knowing that the person was going to be buried or burnt alive.

 

[bedower]

Yes, 3D, it was. I also found it seriously disturbing. But bear in mind that I only had his word for this. He did seem to be a very 'intuitive' person, but it's possible that he was only imagining that these people were still alive. Or it is even possible that he was bragging, trying to impress. He also may have been telling the truth; that he could intuit that life had not left their bodies.

We were neighbours for more than 10 years and had many esoteric discussions together. He lent me many books from his Freemasonry and Rosicrucian library. I had no reason at the time to doubt him. But this was many years before I discovered the Sott/Cass sites, and all the information about psychopathy and narcism and stuff. It's possible that had I known all about psychopathy when he told me this, I would have been in a better position to discern the truth or not of the matter. As it was, at the time I believed him.

Whatever the truth of this may be, the very idea and concept of it is and was seriously disturbing. It still disturbs me 12 years later.

 

[MichaelM]

Reminds me of the movie "The Diving Bell and the Butterfly"
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diving_Bell_and_the_Butterfly_%28film%29
Which was based on a book with the same title (also on wikipedia)

The whole movie is from the point of view of the person who is "locked in" his body and could only blink from one eye. But at least he was acknowledged as being conscious and was given stimuli... It _is_ surprising that the person who was locked in for 23 years didn't go mad.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Here's the follow up on the situation:

Coherent after coma? Not so sure

The author of the above is raising doubts about communication after being awaken.

 

[Tigersoap]

Here's the follow up on the situation:

Coherent after coma? Not so sure

The author of the above is raising doubts about communication after being awaken.

Thanks, that's really interesting.
The troubling part is really how you can keep your sanity in such conditions, people in solitary confinment but able to move have already a really hard time adjusting, if not going a bit crazy after a while so...why not but...

Most troubling about the claim that Houben is communicating are the facts that he is doing so with the help of a therapist who points his finger to the keys on a computer keyboard.

The therapist, Linda Wouters, has told news reporters that she can feel Houben guiding her hand with gentle pressure from his fingers. She feels him objecting when she moves his hand toward an incorrect letter. But, given his injuries, Houben should not be able to generate any pressure in his fingers. And if he can do so, why did no one else detect this ability over the past 23 years?

The technique of having someone point your finger to a keyboard is called facilitated communication. Sadly, it has been shown time and again to be unreliable. There is something of the ouiji board about the whole thing.

So there is a possibility that she is using Houben like her own ouija-board, and he is going to write a book....

 

[Oxajil]

It's always easier to say such a thing when it's not your child. Today's healthcare is all about money, if you pay them they will take a good care for you, but if not they can wait until you're dead.

That's also what I think.

There comes networking to my mind, to have a wider view of one patient for example.
And along hierarchies it seems difficult to speak up, one on top doesn't like it to be questioned, and the one on a lower rank doesn't like to because of being criticized what he thinks he is actually doing, of questioning the authority.

But luckily there are also other examples. In my case there is every week a meeting of different fields: doctors, psychologists, therapists, nurses, social workers... and discussing the situation of each patient, what seems best for him. Well, unfortunately this is an exception, cause of money, looking for fast solutions: "to name, blame and treat" illnesses among others.

Everything is just mechanized. Being a doctor is for many people ''just a job''. It's like almost no one is doing anything with their heart anymore.
And I can understand it in some way, there is just so much stress in this world and so little time. There is just no time or place to just sit, be and think!

When I finished high school, my grandparents wanted me to become a doctor. Apart from other obvious reasons like drug companies running medical businesses and misdiagnosing issues like you mentioned, I refused to go to medical school because I knew I couldn't handle all those heartbreaking stories and incidents. I did my internship in a hospital last summer, our building was pretty much isolated from the rest of the hospital, but there was a time I had to get into the actual hospital. I was about to cry with my first step into the building. Even outside the building there was a man in a bed, probably a cancer patient, it was too painful to see, at least for me.

Yes it's very painful for me also, but their pain somehow gives me fuel you know? It gives me the fuel to do something for them, to help them if they so will.. but first I need to work on myself, but I think I can help in small ways.

As for your story, I tend to think that some people in the medicine world eventually shut out those stories and incidents, otherwise they go crazy, or at least I know I would. Some of them become really insensitive and rude as it was in your example. I agree with you that it is inappropriate to say such a thing, but from that person's perspective probably it was "not giving any false hope". They want other people to move on with their loses because they have to move on also. And I am not talking about everybody here, just a part of the medical world. These are just my observations from the doctors in my family and those who I have encountered, and they may be wrong, but that's how I see the situation right now.

Yes I can understand that. But still, a doctor is not someone who must advice you to let your baby die. A doctor ''must'' only tell you about the conditions of the baby and the baby's health and so on. It is not ''right'' imo to give such an ''advice'', when it is not even asked for.

Okay, maybe it's because she ''wants other people to move on with their loses'', but they haven't lost the baby yet, he was still alive and kicking.
And even if such a thing ''slipped'' out of her mouth because she is stressed etc. which I can understand, it would be most appropiate to come back and apologize. But as I've heard from my friend, the woman (neurologist) seemed quite a ''cold'' person. Perhaps she has shut out as well, as you described.