I want my freedoms but you can't have yours - Facebook Group

[flashgordonv]

I have been a member of as Facebook group called Anti-Smoking Exposed for some time. The major contributors are people who are campaigning against nanny state treatment of smoking and smokers and the loss of freedom smokers are suffering as smoking bans etc are extended. These people post really interesting material, and are a good source of junk science articles and other hypocrisy.

So, I made the mistake of thinking that because they were passionate about protesting their freedoms being infringed on with smoking legislation, they would also be supportive of people having freedom of choice in other areas. Yesterday I posted the following picture, as it neatly espouses the philosophy of freedom of choice

Seems like, all the bigots on the group went nuts. I didn't see all the posts but the group moderator messaged me to tell me: "Hi Gordon, just to let you know that I am removing the Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one etc... post. Not that I don't like it but like the last time this was posted it caused a civil war within the group and I had to remove it. You see, even some smokers don't get that you can't expect freedom for what you like when you take away the freedom of others. All the anti-gays and anti-abortionists jumped on that post to cause havoc in the group and carry discussions totally irrelevant with the group. Good post, but I can't keep it. Have a great day."

A good example of my indulging in wishful thinking really. I know at least one of the major posters is a proud redneck but it surprised me that there would be so many people wanting the freedom to smoke but totally opposed to allow others the freedom to choose about childcare and sexual orientation.

 

[Phill4]

There goes their understanding of tolerance.
It is like many gay people themselves asking for equality yet the are completely blinded by identification and closeminded about other people's rights and freedoms of expression manytimes towards people who don't mind homosexuals.

It runs in many groups.

Linlcon and the civil war in america is another, americans they wanted freedom from england yet the had slaves.



Alot of those people don't reach the concept of tolerance, they are just equally antagonistic to anything that doesn't fit in their heads or bothers them. Just like antismokers. They don't understand ideals or live by them is what i mean.

 

[Laura]

Yes, I've been similarly disabused of my wishful thinking that because a person can see one thing they automatically can see others; just isn't so.

 

[Gawan]

I think it is like with many groups, they are tolerant of one thing and totally intolerant towards (many) others. Like Gurdjieff would have said that they are totally identified with i.e. smoking and became a pipe in this area and cannot be something else in another area cause of their single identification. Or simply many cannot think out of their own box anymore and that many topics are related, which is unfortunate, that some people fight for a good deed, but absolutely cannot in another direction.

 

[Joe]

A good example of my indulging in wishful thinking really. I know at least one of the major posters is a proud redneck but it surprised me that there would be so many people wanting the freedom to smoke but totally opposed to allow others the freedom to choose about childcare and sexual orientation.

Yep, although if you think about it, there isn't much room for surprise. I think it is generally true that many, if not most, of the people who are, for example, pro smoker's rights, are very likely to be the kind of people who will have strong anti or pro opinions on the other "big" black and white issues. I have to keep reminding myself, for example, that many of the people who are anti-war and pro grass roots democracy and things like that, are quite fascist about a lot of other things. I could hang out with some person who is against US imperialism and end up being hated by him/her for eating meat or not hugging enough trees or even for supporting Assad.

There are VERY few people on this planet who are able to take a nuanced and truly informed approach to 'big issues'.

 

[cope]

As I'm living between 'alternative' people, I'm not much better off. Sometimes tolerance is based in pure selfishness, i.e. i don't mind what you do, if you let me take advantage. Maybe the biggest difference between sorts of people is in their level of acceptance of external authority.
Hardly anybody seems to be aware of the effectiveness of media brainwashing, even though it should be obvious. You go to a demonstration and there are 600 people, freshly washed, then you read the newspaper and it says 250 violent/smelly professional/usual activists. But even those who notice this game, think it's only about them?! So next time, 250 dirty hippies, and they swallow it for truth. Or try to say something good of assad, putin or other publicly known villains. They won't even spend 5 minutes, reading something else afraid to "drop out"? I'm trying to break trough these manipulations, saying, in the past, one could read different newspapers, and mitigate, but now, there all modified, you have to sort things out on the Internet. An answer i got was i was naive to think i could find out anything for sure. Maybe this is because when people accept somefact as the truth, they have to act on it?

 

[theos]

It is surprising to be confronted with such a schism so blatantly in a millieu where you would expect the opposite. I used to be surprised that some people with so much intellectual prowess and skepticism (like in health research, just as one example) in one area could be so daft in another (like in believing in the whole smoking is bad for you myth). Oh well. Such is life.

 

[scotseeker]

I have seen more people having profound statements in one group, having so much ignorance in another. It boggles my mind that people that profess freedom, empathy for this or that, love for all peoples, etc. can somehow be so divisive and use it to put down any other statements that disagree with them. Either in text or in character, it makes no sense to me. Well, that is just the way the world works, for better or worse. Makes me want to work even harder on me, so that I can be the real me.

 

[loreta]

When I was young I had difficulty to understand that a feminist can be anti-abortionist. Now I know more. But sometimes you see so many contradictions in people. For example: they are anti-system, against the government, anti capitalism but they are pro-vaccines and they vaccinated their kids. They are anti-system, but they follow the diet that their doctor are telling them, anti-system but they take medication for the cholesterol. Anti system but when you have to work on something, check for educated yourself they are not any more anti system. You are or you are not, it seems to me. But people are complicated, yes indeed.

 

[1peacelover]

I find that "keeping an open mind" helps to see opposing sides. Our body functions employ opposing forces. Inhale, Exhale, Heart beats, Walking (left, right), etc. Even within positive things there are opposing forces at work, the same goes for the negative. Maybe it has to do with perspective & the place/space that we are in at the time. Learning to think like a hammer along with the breathing exercises has had a tremendous effect on my processing of information & knowledge. Haven't perfected it yet, because we are emotional beings, but still working at it and probably will for the rest of this life.

 

[Phill4]

It is helpful though, when we think about ourselves and helps to create the question, how intolerant am i?

We have to also come to the understanding that we also have these attitudes sometimes and be vigilant of our cognitive disonance and study its source in ourselves..


I do find this tendency more pronounced and "intellectual" people and they particulary feed off arguments. Though pull them a bit out their confort zone and you see this kinds of displays.