ICE agent fatally shoots protester in Minneapolis: Self-defense or police brutality?

Cosmos said:
I think in the following short segment, Candace Owens summarizes at least partly a number of thoughts and concerns that Joe and others, including me, are trying to express and get across in what they are saying, seeing and thinking about regarding that incident, and I also think it adds another critical and potentially crucial thing to the discussion here:


I mean, is it really that far-fetched to at least think at this point, given that it seems to have become so obvious how Trump shills for "Israel" and even specifically furthering/encouraging the system already to punish "anti Zionist" people, thoughts, and behaviors within America, that law enforcement types that have been probably at least partly specifically trained by "Israelis/CIA, etc,"could end up not only "getting illegals" and deporting them (whatever that means)? If not now, then perhaps in the future such law enforcement people could deport "everyone that could be considered a threat," aka. anyone telling, speaking, or even thinking the truth?

That could even happen in ways that the law enforcers themselves wouldn't necessarily know what they are really (also?) engaging in? I mean, they get orders "from above" to "deport" this or that "illegal alien" or "criminal", but do they themselves even know, or can they even check or question the "goodness", "truth" or reliability of every order or command they follow? Who actually decides who is illegal and/or an illegal criminal, and how trustworthy do you think those people are in their judgment? I'm sorry that I can't put much faith in those people giving the orders to law enforcement, most especially in a country like the US, that is so obviously ruled by evil in so many corners. And yes, obviously, IMO (as Candace seems to suggest in a way as well), especially now, you would be a fool to not even consider or question if the fact that Trump is willing to even get military (besides regular law enforcement) out on the streets to "perform justice" is or could become all that just in the future, at the very least, in some cases.
Click to expand...

And lest we and other so called “right leaning“ people forget, some of the most vocal people against the sheer evil Israel is committing in Gaza/Palestine were and are the so called “lefties“, who funnily enough, are, despite everything that happened, still the primary and almost sole focus “of Trump“ (the cheer person of many right leaning people) on what is going wrong in America. Sadly enough the oldest trick in the book still seems to be employed: divide and conquer.
 
Cosmos said:
I think in the following short segment, Candace Owens summarizes at least partly a number of thoughts and concerns that Joe and others, including me, are trying to express and get across in what they are saying, seeing and thinking about regarding that incident, and I also think it adds another critical and potentially crucial thing to the discussion here:


I mean, is it really that far-fetched to at least think at this point, given that it seems to have become so obvious how Trump shills for "Israel" and even specifically furthering/encouraging the system already to punish "anti Zionist" people, thoughts, and behaviors within America, that law enforcement types that have been probably at least partly specifically trained by "Israelis/CIA, etc,"could end up not only "getting illegals" and deporting them (whatever that means)? If not now, then perhaps in the future such law enforcement people could deport "everyone that could be considered a threat," aka. anyone telling, speaking, or even thinking the truth?

That could even happen in ways that the law enforcers themselves wouldn't necessarily know what they are really (also?) engaging in? I mean, they get orders "from above" to "deport" this or that "illegal alien" or "criminal", but do they themselves even know, or can they even check or question the "goodness", "truth" or reliability of every order or command they follow? Who actually decides who is illegal and/or an illegal criminal, and how trustworthy do you think those people are in their judgment? I'm sorry that I can't put much faith in those people giving the orders to law enforcement, most especially in a country like the US, that is so obviously ruled by evil in so many corners. And yes, obviously, IMO (as Candace seems to suggest in a way as well), especially now, you would be a fool to not even consider or question if the fact that Trump is willing to even get military (besides regular law enforcement) out on the streets to "perform justice" is or could become all that just in the future, at the very least, in some cases.
Click to expand...
It's actually kinda wild (but not surprising) that ICE can make extrajudicial deportations based on information gathered informally, often on hunches and fraught with assumptions. Generally, if you're suspected of breaking a law, you're granted due process. Law enforcement will do their investigations, which may or may not be accurate, then you're arrested on reasonable suspicion, and prosecutors and defense attorneys will make their case and the Judge or jury/Judge combo (if it's a jury trial) will determine the final outcome.

Now, obviously police don't need to have a trial to arrest and detain someone on reasonable suspicion of a crime, but the final punishment is always through a court with public records that anyone can check and review. At least on paper, you give everyone the benefit of the doubt and a chance to properly defend themselves.

This whole mass deportation thing bypasses this process entirely. I looked it up briefly, and it seems that illegal aliens have constitutional due process rights. Given that even courts can make mistakes, imagine how many mistakes are made when you're trying to remove millions of people relatively quickly without any lengthy investigation or possibility of proper defensive argument?

I sympathize with the fact that bringing in 50+ million people illegally is far easier than getting them out. If you try to do it right, you bog down the legal system for maybe decades and won't make timely progress. If you rush it, you make tons of errors along the way. The people flooding this country with illegals likely understood the impossibility of removing them both quickly AND reliably. You only get to pick one.

And I agree, once the precedent is set for people you don't like, it will be used for you and those you like in the future. The left/deep state created a very frustrating situation - they benefit from the illegals here, and they know that there's no good way to remove them without also setting a precedent that will be leveraged by the deep state, once again, in the future. And Trump just rolls with it. I'd like to think he's just short-sighted and wants to appease his base and seem "tough" without realizing the implications (and likely manipulated by someone and pushed to do this), or maybe he really thinks HE can leverage this new power in the future against his enemies and somehow avoid it being used by the deep state for their own purposes. Short-sighted or wishful thinking in either case, I'd say. I'd like to think he's not actually evil just yet, but who knows anymore.
 
Last edited:
I have been reading Ken Klippenstein's Substack, where he reveals leaked ICE documents. As he describes it, a Border Patrol officer angered by ICE's behavior leaked documents that provide an unprecedented glimpse into ICE's undeclared activities across the country.
There is a whole disclosure throughout his this previous installments, talking about recruitment and the reaction of officials to the murder of Renee Good, who had carried out “an act of domestic terrorism.” In this latest installment, he shows the broader and truer interest that, according to the informant, is behind ICE.

Subt_ICE_.png
Legal Refrescher

Among the secret programs recently carried out by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) are names such as Operations Benchwarmer, Tidal Wave, Abracadabra, Dust Off, Fleur De Lis, among others, are part of mission that aim, among other things, to develop informants among immigrants in detention and deploy 2,000 “intelligence assets” to spy on both immigrants and Americans.
This would turn ICE into an independent police force parallel to the FBI or the DEA, whose mission beyond deportations is espionage and control of the U.S. population, giving it power in terms of budget and legal actions.

Leaked documents detail the dizzying scope of ICE operations​

“Operation Abracadabra was initiated with the requirement of Interviewing 100% of individuals apprehended to gather intelligence and identify follow-on targets such as stash houses and individuals conducting illegal activity,” one of the documents, a briefing slide, reads. The purpose, it continues, is “Tying every individual who crosses the border illegally to a Foreign Terrorist Organization, a Transnational Criminal Organization, and/or utilizing the intelligence to develop targets.”
Another briefing about Operation Benchwarmer reveals the employment of agents dressing in “plainclothes” to disguise themselves as ordinary people in an attempt to gather intelligence.

“Plainclothes agents have been embedded in transport vans, sally ports, processing areas, and detention cells to gather important tactical intelligence and or information,” the briefing says of this nationwide operation. The purpose? It’s “focused on collecting information not normally gained during formal interviews.”
This national security colossus, over 20 years in the making, plays an intimate role in many of the ICE operations you read about (and many you don’t). Yesterday I reported on the deployment of hundreds of Border Patrol agents to Minneapolis, Minnesota to support ICE operations there in the wake of an ICE agent’s killing of Renee Good.
My source’s motive in large part pertains to the lack of big picture public understanding of ICE’s larger war. That’s by design, thanks to the lack of transparency on the part of DHS and a Congress unwilling to compel transparency. Things as basic as ICE’s Use of Force Policy — its use of deadly force policy — are almost completely blacked out so the public can’t see them.
Click to expand...
Subt_ICE.png


Another briefing about Operation Benchwarmer reveals the employment of agents dressing in “plainclothes” to disguise themselves as ordinary people in an attempt to gather intelligence.

Opposition to ICE’s conduct following Renee Good’s death has spread throughout the Department of Homeland Security, as I previously reported. The discontent is also affecting the Justice Department, with several top federal prosecutors in Minnesota resigning over pressure to investigate Renee Good’s widow. Meanwhile, the FBI is itself increasingly split, the political part reportedly investigating Good’s ties to activist groups that the Trump administration labels extremist.

But other parts of the FBI, sources say, are also alarmed by ICE’s heavy handedness and its creeping takeover. One senior FBI official tells me that there is widespread concern that ICE’s actions are coloring the American public’s view of law enforcement in general. The source says that enforcing the law demands scrupulous adherence to the law in doing so and fears that ICE has abandoned such a fundamental principle, believing through masking and its belligerence towards the public that the law doesn’t apply to it.
Click to expand...
The attached documents that were delivered to you can be found in the substack.

open.substack.com

Exclusive: Secret ICE Programs Revealed

Leaked documents detail the dizzying scope of ICE operations
open.substack.com open.substack.com

www.kenklippenstein.com

Exclusive: Secret ICE Programs Revealed

Leaked documents detail the dizzying scope of ICE operations
www.kenklippenstein.com www.kenklippenstein.com
www.kenklippenstein.com

Immigration Agents Terrified of ICE Backlash After Shooting

Leaked documents show Border Patrol needs volunteers for Minneapolis surge
www.kenklippenstein.com www.kenklippenstein.com
www.kenklippenstein.com

ICE Is Okay With Renee Good’s Killing

Read the use of “deadly force” documents laying out the logic
www.kenklippenstein.com www.kenklippenstein.com
 
All cops are bastards until proven otherwise. That's the basis for a civilized society that doesn't want to fall into a police state. Accountability and "innocent until proven guilty" are safeguards. Trust the police is no different than trust the science or trust saint Fauci, it's just authoritarianism. The problem with extrajudicial impunity in the 21th century is the digitization and centralization of data. We've seen that with the de-banking of truckers in Canada, the de-banking of Scott Ritter, the cancellation of a few people in Europe, and these are maybe a few of the most known examples. It may be just the beginning: A database with personal information on everybody, and at the slightest misbehavior (criticize Israel, refuse a vaccine, etc.) an AI system changes your data, you suddenly become a criminal, a non-citizen, you debt becomes astronomical, or anything. At best you become homeless, but you also could be disappeared in the middle of the night as an illegal alien.
 
SevenFeathers said:
I admit that I am in the camp of "most cops are bastards".
Click to expand...
A friend of my wife broke her foot while mountaineering and was stranded in an inaccessible area of the mountain.

A mountain rescue police officer lifted her onto his shoulders and told her to hold on, we're going. She told him how he was going to carry her since she weighed a lot, and he said not to worry.

He carried her on her shoulders for several kilometers to the foot of the mountain where the ambulance was, and then he left.

Other colleagues saved a man who was about to jump off a cliff to take his own life and held him right on the edge, nearly falling with the suicidal man.

I have seen this same performance with variations on several occasions.

I could go on for a while, but I think you get the idea.

Risking your life for a monthly salary to help others has a very bad reputation.

Which obviously does not excuse someone from making a bad decision in the few seconds that always exist to react to any situation, and that should be judged with all rigor.
 
Niall said:
Her motive was protest/civil disobedience. This is Minneapolis, a very 'blue' city, thus someone like her literally believes Trump is Hitler and ICE are his henchmen. She believed that by blocking their way and honking her car horn incessantly, she was doing her part to 'save America'. You can't just go 'what would I do if I were in her shoes?' You have to go 'what would I do if I were a blue-haired liberal and ICE came to my neighborhood?'
Click to expand...
I feel the problem may be that these people don't even realise that they are not only in the minority, but that they have been brainwashed into behaving in ways that are both dangerous and idiotic (just like 'follow the science' and 'get vaccinated' because it's all 'safe and effective'). They're not bad people, they're just easily vectored and programmed fools (in my opinion). A bit like people who end up being nominated for the Darwin Awards. They do things simply because they were told to do them, or because they do not know any better.

Far more concerning, to me, at least, is the number of personality disordered and psychopathic males (some females too) on the Right who identify with Zionism and all things Israel. The more 'normie' Christian type Right are simply confused by their toxicity and hatred towards anyone that doesn't parrot their narrative, agree with them on everything, or who is weaker than they are. I think this explains the marked schism on the Right that happened recently. It was led by these types of people.

It begs the question, why are these people like that?

And I apologise now for going off topic, but it's something that really bothers me and has done since I observed this behaviour multiple times and in great detail on the VivaBarnes Locals forum.

Recently, it brought to mind a chapter in Laurent Guyenot's book "From Yahweh to Zion" that discussed the religiously mandated trauma of circumcision that Guyenot described as "ritual castration" demanded by their God.

He speculated that when this physical trauma is done to a helpless infant that that person will either grow up to 'identify with their psychopathic God', by becoming psychopathic, or they become neurotic. He was also speculating that this might be the reason why Jewish people (particularly men) have much higher rates of neuroticism, and we can see, also psychopathy, particularly in Israel at the moment.

The issue to me, seems to be the deliberate physical trauma done to a helpless infant will effect an adult's subconscious state later in life. It concerns me because as a society, I don't think we take that sort of trauma into account when we see people's behaviours. It might actually explain more than we've previously thought.

Should we be asking ourselves (along with a person's vaccination status!) whether they've been deliberately ritually castrated as a infant and whether that is subconsiously effecting their behaviour now as an adult? I don't know, maybe? It might be the question to ask when we see males in society being unnecessarily aggressive.
 
Glenn said:
To me, this is pretty much an example of, if you play in the dirt, you are going to get dirty. If the lady had complied, she would be alive today, in my opinion,
Click to expand...
That's kind of my take of the situation to be honest, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Probably went in for notoriety and some clips for online slander and got way more than what was bargained for.

I understand and agree with the argument that the ICE agent was poorly trained and probably high on power, and in the situation should have acted entirely different, the responsibility falls on him, his gun fired the shot that killed a civilian, period. Running someone over, even if you can explain it with inebriation for instance, still comprises manslaughter. AFAIK

But at the same time, I mean what did you expect? it's like getting on the lion's den and being surprised when he wants you for lunch, after you've spend hours taunting it. Or in the above example, it's like knowing there's drunk drivers coming down the road and jaywalking on principle because you disagree with drinking and driving. If you think or know these guys are idiots with guns, then maybe don't mess with the idiot with a gun.

The way I see it, the situation in the US can only be addressed by focusing on the humanity of the person you hate, but that is admitting defeat and likely won't happen. So, I actually think it's rather hopeless, we can only watch it unravel.

People will die on both sides of the ridiculous aisle and people will both celebrate and mourn and taunt and cry. Maybe it's karmic, the US has spent decades fomenting regime change the world over creating that sort of division and death, societal breaks that turn societies into criminal hotbeds, the same that the republicans are now wanting to protect the US from. The same ones that the democrats deny exist in US soil. Or maybe it's by design and the US is a victim of a larger power play, or both.
 
Wandering Star said:
A friend of my wife broke her foot while mountaineering and was stranded in an inaccessible area of the mountain.

A mountain rescue police officer lifted her onto his shoulders and told her to hold on, we're going. She told him how he was going to carry her since she weighed a lot, and he said not to worry.

He carried her on her shoulders for several kilometers to the foot of the mountain where the ambulance was, and then he left.

Other colleagues saved a man who was about to jump off a cliff to take his own life and held him right on the edge, nearly falling with the suicidal man.

I have seen this same performance with variations on several occasions.

I could go on for a while, but I think you get the idea.

Risking your life for a monthly salary to help others has a very bad reputation.

Which obviously does not excuse someone from making a bad decision in the few seconds that always exist to react to any situation, and that should be judged with all rigor.
Click to expand...
It appears that you have good experiences in your country. Or were these in the U.S? At any rate, great experiences with good people!
 
ScioAgapeOmnis said:
I'd like to think he's not actually evil just yet, but who knows anymore.
Click to expand...

IMO in the case of Trump it doesn’t matter all that much if we think or assume he personally is “good“ or “evil“ at this point (for example, I would think there is still quite some good in the guy) because, by quite a number of indications Trump seems to have many difficulties that he is confronted with, some of which are directly connected to his own thinking:

One of the problems Trump seems to have is that he thinks he is the fiddle player while in reality he is the perfect fiddle to be played. And likely mostly by very bad people at this point.
 
Ruth said:
Oh wow! That's a bit like saying "most people are bastards" Some are, no doubt, and they shouldn't be in positions of power. But the ones who are a problem usually are. :-(
Click to expand...
Well Gurdjieff did say everyone is horseshit until proven otherwise! Although he meant more like machines, not that he walked around with any sort of scorn for the average human. But honestly, there's great cops and there's evil ones. The position attracts psychopaths and narcissists for sure, but it also attracts people who just want to really help keep their neighborhoods safe as well. Any position of authority should be highly scrutinized and controlled by the public, and that's where the failure lies - often corrupt cops and police departments do "internal investigations" and end up with a slap on the wrist, and that's a failure of the public to keep them accountable.

Psychopaths being in political/corporate power is just as much a failure of the public as well. You can't blame a lion for being a lion, but you can blame the people who naively and ignorantly put the lion in charge without close monitoring and holding them accountable. The public is lazy, they like the "set it and forget it" approach - vote them in and trust it'll work itself out, establish police and trust they will just do their jobs as prescribed. It will take a lot to disabuse the population of such wishful thinking, but until that happens, we will just keep getting what we've been getting.

Cosmos said:
IMO in the case of Trump it doesn’t matter all that much if we think or assume he personally is “good“ or “evil“ at this point (for example, I would think there is still quite some good in the guy) because, by quite a number of indications Trump seems to have many difficulties that he is confronted with, some of which are directly connected to his own thinking:

One of the problems Trump seems to have is that he thinks he is the fiddle player while in reality he is the perfect fiddle to be played. And likely mostly by very bad people at this point.
Click to expand...
And as the guy from the Green Mile said.. "I'm tired, boss".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Trending content

Back
Top Bottom