If you see something, say something.

Meager1

Dagobah Resident
If you see something, say something.

That`s Amtraks motto on signs throughout their train stations.

Well I saw something.
But I didn`t want to say anything, until after we had taken the return trip home.

The return trip was a nightmare anyway as it turned out, the "heat" in what they called the northern tier, Montana and North Dakota was such that the rails were over heated and in danger of separating. The trains were slowed to 20-30 miles an hour and we were 9 hours behind schedule by the time we reached Chicago. Our connecting train had been gone for hours and we were all forced to wait over night either in a hotel, then hang around all day and part of the night to get back on Amtrak at 10;30 the next evening, or to wait in a bus station and be bussed from Chicago to the final destination.

We opted for the bus outta there.. and just arrived home late this afternoon, we should have been home two days ago!

What concerns me more however, was something we witnessed on the initial trip out to Montana. We needed to change trains in Chicago and had a layover of several hours until the connecting train arrived, so we got to see lots of folks coming and going and the general security of the place, which was by the way, pretty much non existent.

I first noticed a woman with a small boy of about 10-11 years old.

He was well dressed, actually very neat and very intelligent.
I could hear much of what he was saying and the way in which he spoke was surprising for a child.

He was very articulate and very precise in everything he said, so to sound much older then he appeared. I first assumed the woman with him was his mother, but thought that she was actually very cold to the child.

I heard her telling him that this was a great opportunity and he should make the best of it, that everything would be ok etc, and then she just passed him off to a waiting couple standing in line for a train to Houston Texas.

There was no goodbye kisses, no hugs. Just an unemotional walking away as he was leaving.

But then, a small blond girl about 7-8 years old ran to him and leaned onto him as if she didn`t want him to go, they exchanged a small hug as the couple led him away.
I thought it was probably his little sister but the contrast between the two was remarkable in that little boy was neat as a pin and so "proper" appearing, while this little girl was in dirty clothes and her hair obviously hadn`t been combed in days.

She looked as though she had the same dirty clothes on for days too.

Even after the little boy had disappeared down the hallway to his train the little girl went several times to look down the hallway, obviously upset, then an unkempt humpbacked appearing woman came and took her to sit between herself and a man with long greasy black hair and rotten teeth. I thought well no wonder she looks like that then.
You just couldn`t help but notice that the situation for her probably wasn`t a good one.

Then our train came and I didn`t think about her again.

The first night trying to sleep on the train was a nightmare, it is so uncomfortable that to sleep for more then an hour at a time is kind of a miracle.

I was on the isle and my son was inside at the window seat asleep and I`m sure it appeared as though I was to, though I wasn`t. Then here comes a conductor and as he passes me he puts his hand on my shoulder very gently.. and then passes on down the isle.

After he leaves I look at my shoulder thinking what the heck did he do?

Everything seems ok, so I settle back down and try to sleep again,then along comes a woman and she stops at my seat and does the same thing! Very gently touch`s my shoulder then moves on!

I was getting creeped out thinking these people are checking to see how heavy a sleeper people are, do they awaken easily or not, what the heck is that about?

Either the next night was uneventful or I did sleep through any gentle touch, because I don`t recall anything happening the second night.

Then it was time to get off the train and about two stops before ours I told my son that I wanted to get our luggage ready and waiting by the door, so we could be first in line getting off.

We did that and then went back to our seats but apparently someone had decided that we had already disembarked and our seats were taken! So we went back to wait at the door with our luggage.

As we were standing there, here comes an older couple with the unkempt little blond girl with the snarly hair, but now she is wrapped up in a pink blanket. I suddenly had alarm bells going off and was really disturbed, where had I seen this little girl before?
Not on the train, but where?

She had never gone by for food or for the bathroom, I would have remembered seeing her on the train. Then the older man puts his hands on her face all touchy feel-y and says "Megan" now you`ll always have enough to eat, we`re going to take care of you.

"Megan".. Megan's law, comes to mind! Something is very very wrong here.

The older woman with him just looks at the floor, and she doesn`t even appear interested in this child!

Alarm bells are screaming, something is wrong! Something is wrong.

This old guy is waaaaaaaaay to touchy feely and the old woman is disinterested..the old guy pushes her hair back out of her eyes and I can see that this little girl appears to be drugged! She shakes her head several times as if trying to clear it, her eyes are very glassy.

She looks at these people like who are you? But she never says a word.

The conductor comes to open the door for their stop. It`s the Monet stop.

The old man says to the conductor "so, there are a lot of private cars on this train" and the conductor looks at him with pure contempt and he says "yeah, but rules and regulations are changing on that" and he turns away, refusing to even look at these people!

Alarms, alarms. I`m looking at my son, who`s looking at me like we need to get out of here!

The train slows and this old couple get off with the little girl and the conductor closes the door behind them and leaves. I asked my son, do you remember that little girl?
He says yes, but I didn`t see her on the train, that`s weird huh.

Then it hits me..in Chicago..with the grungie couple.. that humpback woman!

I`m thinking oh my god, what have we witnessed here?

Amber alerts look for children on the highways, not on trains!

How often does this happen and how involved is Amtrak in this movement of children in "private cars" across the country..and what in gods name goes on in "private cars" where the rules and regulations are changing according to the conductor?

Are they moving children through the other cars late at night when people are sleeping, but first make sure that everyone is asleep?

Did we truly witness child trafficking on Amtrak, or is there another explanation for these children going off with folks they don`t seem to know?

And these were the only two.. that I paid attention to, how many others might go by unnoticed by anyone, the place is so busy.. I hope I`m wrong, but I`m still creeped out.

And notifying Amtrak of what "their" doing, is simply out of the question, since they already know all about it! But their motto is "if you see something, say something.

And so I`m wondering if an army of mothers need to start riding trains and bust this thing wide open, since I don`t see Amtrak busting themselves.. any time soon.
 
Hi Meager1,

Firstly, sorry for your hellish train ride, not a comfortable situation. Have to say that i read this twice to suss out who was who. What you recalled of the children seems like red flags to me, too. In this passing off phase, was their an exchange noted also; package, envelope, suitcases, any indication of trade?

It is a given that there is child abductions and trade across the lands and your deduction concerning trains is very likely a modus operandi.

Noticed this in Europe:

Eurostar: Train Staff to Identify Human Trafficking on Trains said:
_https://www.change.org/petitions/eurostar-train-staff-to-identify-human-trafficking-on-trains

Aug 01, 2011

Eurostar has agreed to work with ECPAT UK to train their staff to recognize and address human trafficking via their trains and to develop stronger policies for unaccompanied minors traveling via their trains. This commitment marks a huge step towards preventing the use of rail systems to traffic children.

Eurostar trains move students, tourists, and holiday makers through Europe with ease. But unfortunately, the train system may also be used to move child slaves, especially through St. Pancras station.

Children 12-17 can travel unaccompanied on Eurostar, as long as they have a note from a parent or guardian. Plus, the success of the Operation Paladin police unit at Heathrow is forcing traffickers to switch routes, some of them as switching to rail. But unlike the highly-trained team at Heathrow, there's no one at St. Pancras or other Eurostar stations. That means Eurostar is an attractive option for traffickers who want to move children from the U.K. to the European continent.

Eurostar has claimed this is an issue for the UK Border authority, ad they cannot refuse a minor the right to travel if they present the company with the appropriate travel documents. But activists sat the company should do more.

Eurostar should train key staff at all its stations to recognise and assist child trafficking victims and help the home office indentify and arrest human traffickers.

There are many hits on searching and this might offer something:

_http://poundpuplegacy.org/child_trafficking

Edit: recalled from rescaled
 
In this passing off phase, was their an exchange noted also; package, envelope, suitcases, any indication of trade?

It is a given that there is child abductions and trade across the lands and your deduction concerning trains is very likely a modus operandi.



I`m sorry to say that I didn`t notice whether the boy had luggage or not, but I saw no exchange of anything material at that time. The little girl had only a new pink blanket, but I`m also certain that there was nothing passed to the conductor who opened the door for them. Yet my feeling is that he knew something and was filled with comtempt.
I both saw and felt that that was the case.

If there was a "sale" or any such thing, it had to have occurred either before or after they left the train or in one the "private cars". I am so sorry to hear that this is truly happening on trains.

I hoped I was wrong, or had misunderstood what I saw, but now with what you have written, it seems to have been the case.

This is heart breaking and hitting me hard right now..I wish there was something, anything, I could have done to change the out come for that poor little girl.
 
Thanks to share this story, it was so clear that I had the impression to be there, with you. And what can you do about it? It is a very delicate situation. That reminds me something that happened to me some years ago. I was in Portugal when the little Madeleine was kidnapped. I was taking a coffee outside in a little restaurant near a big road. I remember that suddenly I hear a yell coming from a van that was passing on the road. I ask my husband if he hear something, he told me no. I had a bad feeling but it was just a feeling, what can I should do? I did nothing. But I remember this situation sometimes and I feel that maybe I should have done something? I don't know. Maybe it was just my imagination?

Maybe in your case you can contact someone and tell your story? Specifying the trains and the days? By phone so it can be anonymous? Contact the train company? Or someone else who is working with children? It is very difficult to say what we can do in a situation like this. I feel lost and impotent. I understand your feelings. :hug2:
 
Meager1 said:
...
This is heart breaking and hitting me hard right now..I wish there was something, anything, I could have done to change the out come for that poor little girl.

That you were not able to do anything at the time it happened is unsettling, but now there must exist associations to contact and tell them about this...
Thanks to let us know, take good care :hug2:
 
Disturbing story, and highly suspect of trafficking to my eyes as well. Maybe you could check the web for photographs of missing kids?
 
If this is bothering you (and it is suspicious), why not report it at the nearest police station, and give a call or send a letter to Amtrak security department?
 
Phones can be traced. An operation like this wouldn't just sit down and roll over. Please consider using a pay phone instead.
 
Maybe you could check the web for photographs of missing kids?


I have done that, but so far have not been able to find eithor of them.


Eurostar should train key staff at all its stations to recognise and assist child trafficking victims and help the home office indentify and arrest human traffickers.

I have to think that every "agency" who should know about this, already does.
It is only happening because it`s allowed to happen. Just like everything else.
 
[quote author=Meager1 ]

I have to think that every "agency" who should know about this, already does.
It is only happening because it`s allowed to happen. Just like everything else.

[/quote]

Indeed, they would know. As we have see from the enslavement 'Rings', from country to country and city to city, these rings seem to be very much protected from a few of those living the façade of protecting us from their authoritarian lofts.

Very sorry for what you became aware of, yet you where intuitively aware of something wrong, whereas many never see, or make the choice not to see. :hug2:
 
voyageur said:
Children 12-17 can travel unaccompanied on Eurostar, as long as they have a note from a parent or guardian.

what the heck is this? why in the world do they allow children to travel unaccompanied if they pretend to be so "concerned" about child trafficking?
something is very wrong here! they could simply forbid any child to travel with the train wich is not accompanied by his parents or somebody who has legal custody over the child. period. it is as simple as that. but somehow this firm doesn't seem to come this obvious conclusion! in the end everybody can fake "a note from a parent or guardian"....

disgusting :barf:
 
This story made my hairs stand on end, very creepy. I really hope that child trafficking was not the case here, but as we know it happens all the time. It is truly one of the darkest things going on, and coming face to face with a possible incident must have been very traumatic.

As others have suggested, maybe sending an anonymous letter to their security department could help? It would most likely fall on deaf ears, but maybe it could reach the right person and have non-linear effects.
 
They could have been foster children, a brother and sister. Although given the 'parents' you described, that isn't necessarily a better future for the children involved.
 
Indeed, they would know. As we have see from the enslavement 'Rings', from country to country and city to city, these rings seem to be very much protected from a few of those living the façade of protecting us from their authoritarian lofts.


yeah it seems evident that those companys either know about this child trafficking or worst are involved in it.
there is no way that certain people who work in and around those trains do not notice that something is going on because they are working there every day and must see something. as you suggested it is entirely possible that certain people in and around those trains know about this and either say nothing about it or are involved in it.


Exactly..I spoke with one of the woman conductors at a "smoke" stop, who told me that the personnel travel with the train on the entire run. So if the run is from Chicago to Seattle, the same personnel are aboard for the entire route.

These means they are on the same train for days, in many cases, and would have a very good understanding of what occurs on their runs.

There was only one, that I encountered, who was adamantly opposed, indeed disgusted, with what "may be" occurring on those trains.
This was the conductor who actually let the old couple with the little girl off the train, in Monet.

There was no disguising his feelings about the situation and I have to think that his paycheck, bonuses, or maybe much (more), was what determined his silence.



As others have suggested, maybe sending an anonymous letter to their security department could help? It would most likely fall on deaf ears, but maybe it could reach the right person and have non-linear effects.



Notifying anyone.. anonymously or not, has the same "feel" as witnessing a neighbor kill his wife and then calling him and saying, hey I saw what you did, well anyway, have a good day!

Probably not the best thing to do. The people themselves will have to stop this thing..like with everything else. The "agencies" are not going to change anything.

There was NO security to speak of.

No bags were searched, no one was questioned.

Anything and everything is allowed on board.

There was only one evident "security" officer that we saw on the entire trip and this was in the Chicago station, where we were waiting for the connecting train and where we first saw the little girl.

The officer had a dog, but the dog was on a very tight, short leash.

It was glaringly obvious that this dog was held back, not allowed to actually approach anyone, or any luggage.

Then, when we were leaving Whitefish on the return trip, there was an older man with long white hair in a ponytail, he was in a white tee shirt and jeans, but stood with the crown waiting to board the train.

He was carrying a hand gun in a belt holster, on display to everyone.

I "assumed" that this was the security officer at Whitefish, until we saw him get into a car and leave the area before the train came!
 
I think, Meager1, that you tend to skip the ordinary and perceive things - that might have a rational basis - as strange, unsettling, fantastic...
 
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