Iron deficiency

[Aya]

In the last week, I took a blood test again to see if my ferritin and iron levels are in the normal range. It turned out they were lower than when I took the test back in October 2013. The doctor told me that I have almost zero iron in the body which is not a big of a concern since many women nowadays are anemic. And all I have to do is to take iron pills… I can't trust his advice and I'm wondering if anyone knows good supplements that might help. I am on keto. diet for 4 years. Considering the amount of meat I’m eating, actually I'm surprised that my iron level is still low. At the same time, I have been anemic for most of my life and my condition has improved very much compared to how I used to faint and get tired from intense physical exercise, so this is not as bad as before. I took iron pills before but they made me throw up and I couldn't keep taking them. I wonder if there is anything I can do about this, aside from eating livers everyday...

TEST:2015 March 25th.

RESULT
IRON 4. NORMAL: 6-27 umol/L
SATURATION 0.05 NORMAL: 0.20-0.50 /1
FERRITIN 11. NORMAL: 12-105 ug/L
HEMOGLOBIN 111. NORMAL: F: 115-155 g/

 

[Gaby]

Perhaps you can share the rest of the formula: Mean corpuscular volume (MCV) , Mean corpuscular hemoglobin (MCH) , Mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration (MCHC).

 

[Aya]

Thank you for your reply Gaby. It says:

Result
RBC 4.28 F: 3.60-5.01 x 10E12/L
RBC INDICES: MCV 79. F: 80-99 fl
MCH 26. 27-32 pg
MCHC 326. 320-360 g/L

 

[Gaby]

Well, it seems you are right there on the limit of iron deficiency anemia.

If you don't have heavy menstrual loses, you could take mineral supplements with iron. Maybe that would be enough instead of taking iron pills. If you are having heavy menstrual loses, then the root cause or any hormonal imbalance should be addressed.

Ideally the main cause of the anemia should be addressed. If there are no clues, taking vitamins and mineral supplements could take care of the problem.

My 2 cents!

 

[Ellipse]

What kind of meat are you eating? If it's not enough you can make the beef juice receipt.

Beef juice receipt:
Take 1lb of raw beef, preferably lean beef from the neck or rump.
Cut it into approximately 1/4 inch square chunks.
Place these small chunks of raw beef in a fruit or mayonnaise jar.
Place a lid on top of this jar, but do not screw it on tight. Air will need to escape as it heats.
Place this jar in pan ½ full of water. The water should come up to about half the depth of the jar.
Boil the water until the chunks of beef are thoroughly done. This will take about 2-3 hours. Strain.
Keep the juice only.
Store in the refrigerator (3 days max).

Dosage:
"We would prepare regularly - every other day - about a pound of beef INTO Beef Juice! Not tea, not broth, but the Beef Juice! This would be taken rather often, but in very small quantities; and when taken almost CHEW it - though there is nothing to chew, of course - for it is liquid, but SIP it - when taking it about every two or three hours during the waking period. Take about a teaspoonful at the time, but take at least a minute or more to swallow that much, see? This will give strength, it will assimilate easily, and make for better conditions. Do not allow any fat to be in the beef when it is prepared. Preferably use the beef from the neck of the animal." 975-5

Dosage:
"Then the rest of the foods, - take as much beef juice in small quantities as the body may assimilate, but do not attempt to take more than a teaspoonful at a time, or more than a tablespoonful during a day - for the first two or three weeks. But take at least three minutes in taking even a teaspoonful. Hence it is to be SIPPED, not gulped; so that it, the liquid itself, the beef juice may be easily assimilated through being mixed well with the fluids of the mouth before being swallowed. We do not mean beef extract, nor beef soup, but BEEF JUICE! This is to be made from the lean beef, preferably the neck of the cow - or the rump. This is the type of meat to be used to make the juice. More strength will be found in same." 1899-1

And "which is not a big of a concern since many women nowadays are anemic." is not a good mantra, your body need iron.

 

[riclapaz]

Hi Aya, I remember reading in some article in the thread about Hemochromatosis(I have no access to this thread) to take vitamin C, iron utilization is higher, might discussing with your doctor in case you have not already.

"The consumption of iron-rich foods with foods rich in vitamin C will ensure better absorption of iron," says Kristie Leong, MD, a general practitioner from Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine

 

[Alana]

Well, it seems you are right there on the limit of iron deficiency anemia.

If you don't have heavy menstrual loses, you could take mineral supplements with iron. Maybe that would be enough instead of taking iron pills. If you are having heavy menstrual loses, then the root cause or any hormonal imbalance should be addressed.

Ideally the main cause of the anemia should be addressed. If there are no clues, taking vitamins and mineral supplements could take care of the problem.

My 2 cents!

I would also recommend (if you go the iron supplementation route) homeopathic iron instead of any other type. If you have a homeopath, show him/her your results and s/he might have an advice about a combination of homeopathic remedies.

 

[Aya]

Well, it seems you are right there on the limit of iron deficiency anemia.

If you don't have heavy menstrual loses, you could take mineral supplements with iron. Maybe that would be enough instead of taking iron pills. If you are having heavy menstrual loses, then the root cause or any hormonal imbalance should be addressed.

Ideally the main cause of the anemia should be addressed. If there are no clues, taking vitamins and mineral supplements could take care of the problem.

My 2 cents!

Thank you, Gaby! My menstrual cycle and loses are regular. (Maybe it goes off one or twice a year from stress or hormonal imbalance but it's not obvious other than its time frame and the side effects.) I suspect that the root cause might be from genetic as my mother and aunt had the same issue.

What kind of meat are you eating? If it's not enough you can make the beef juice receipt.

Beef juice receipt:

And "which is not a big of a concern since many women nowadays are anemic." is not a good mantra, your body need iron.

Thank you, Ellipse. The recipe kind of reminds me of canning cold stew beef. Do you think it would be the same? In the basement of the house, we have lots of old beef stew jars (with juice) that are better to be eaten and replaced.

We get fairly good selections of different cuts of meat from farmers. (mainly beef, pork and lamb) I regularly drink butter tea and skip a meal in the morning until 2pm but rest of the day I eat 2 meals with fat and 3/4 ounces of meat...I think I am eating enough.

Hi Aya, I remember reading in some article in the thread about Hemochromatosis(I have no access to this thread) to take vitamin C, iron utilization is higher, might discussing with your doctor in case you have not already.

"The consumption of iron-rich foods with foods rich in vitamin C will ensure better absorption of iron," says Kristie Leong, MD, a general practitioner from Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine

Thank you for your reply, riclapaz. Yeah, I remember that from reading 'Iron Elephant'. I will remember to take vitamin C next time when I eat liver. - Liver is in the fridge defrosted at the moment.

I would also recommend (if you go the iron supplementation route) homeopathic iron instead of any other type. If you have a homeopath, show him/her your results and s/he might have an advice about a combination of homeopathic remedies.

I didn't think about this, thank you, Alana! I'm going to consult my homeopathic doctor who also works at dispensary store and ask for an advice if he can recommend me new remedies.

 

[monotonic]

I seem to remember vitamin B6 is good for anemia? I don't recall the details but I did find this:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20265.msg410379.html#msg410379

 

[Ellipse]

Thank you, Ellipse. The recipe kind of reminds me of canning cold stew beef. Do you think it would be the same? In the basement of the house, we have lots of old beef stew jars (with juice) that are better to be eaten and replaced.

Well, the beef juice receipt goal is to have something very assimilable because already "digested". We can guess that stew beef approach this in a sense.

We get fairly good selections of different cuts of meat from farmers. (mainly beef, pork and lamb) I regularly drink butter tea and skip a meal in the morning until 2pm but rest of the day I eat 2 meals with fat and 3/4 ounces of meat...I think I am eating enough.

You eat beef and lamb so it should be OK . I asked because if you had eat mainly pork it would be understandable. Pork is a white meat and do not have the same effect. Eventually try to had blood sausage and beef liver to your diet. This is easy to do.

 

[Aya]

Good finding monotonic, thank you.

I went back to "Primal Body, Primal Mind" and found the following:

It's important to note that nothing else in your mental or physical health can possibly improve when any form of anemia is involved (whether it's related to deficiencies of iron, vitamins B12 or B6 or other nutrients) until that issue is resolved. Anemia, when present, should be considered a first-order priority when addressing any health issues. (Among the symptoms of iron deficiency and anemia are listlessness, pallor, fatigue, apathy, impaired IQ and cognitive function, and various behavioral disorders. ) It's also important to point out that not all cases of anemia - even iron anemia -are the result of an actual iron deficiency! It is possible to have even excessive levels of serum iron and still be anemic when there is poor conversion to hemoglobin. Both sufficient hydrochloric acid production and amounts of vitamin B6 are essential for this conversion to take place. Improving digestion is always the most important place to start.

And Nora Gedgaudas stresses that red meat is the best available food source for iron. I eat meat that is listed in the book all the time so it might be my digestion that is causing the problem.

I also found:

Iron is needed for the conversion of L-tryptophan to serotonin. Anemia can make this conversion very difficult in some people.

I’m taking Slippery Elm and Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG in addition to magnesium, fish oil and other supplements. I'm going to read the section of the book and the threads that talk about digestion issues in order to find the main cause, possibly making some changes on supplementation.

 

[Persej]

I was reading about the connection between iron and sleep problems. Most of the articles are about restless legs syndrome, which I do not have, so I never paid much attention to it, but I found this article in which not only I found mine but also my mother's and her nephew's symptoms:

Introduction

Restless Sleep Disorder (RSD) is characterized by frequent nocturnal movements of large muscle groups or a complaint of restless sleep by observers with associated daytime dysfunction. RSD, like other movement disorders of sleep, is associated with low iron stores. Children with RSD have increased NREM sleep instability and a propensity for parasomnia. No reports to date have demonstrated the use of iron therapy for parasomnia in patients with RSD. Furthermore, studies are limited in very young children with this disorder as they currently fall outside proposed diagnostic criteria.

Report of Cases: A 2 year-old male presented to the sleep clinic with parental complaints of nightly sleep initiation and maintenance difficulty, mild snoring, restless sleep, episodes of sleepwalking and night terrors multiple times per week. Symptoms worsened over 6 months and were associated with daytime irritability and behavioral problems. Sleep quality measures assessed progress between visits: the PROMIS Sleep Disturbance (PROMIS SD) and Sleep Related Impairment (PROMIS SRI). Serum ferritin was initially 20ug/L. Polysmnogram demonstrated no significant sleep related breathing disorder, a large muscle group movement index of 14, periodic limb movement index of 3. Initial treatment included oral iron therapy, scheduled awakenings, and hypnotic dose melatonin. The sleep psychologist addressed limit setting and negative sleep associations with improved insomnia symptoms but parasomnia and restless sleep continued. The parent noted reduction in both movements and parasomnia frequency after one month of iron therapy. After a 3 month period on treatment, the parent reported complete cessation of the parasomnia, drastic reduction in restlessness, and near resolution of insomnia. Sleep quality measure PROMIS SD improved by 11, demonstrating reduced sleep disturbance. PROMIS SRI did not change. Ferritin level increased to 47ug/L.

Conclusion

RSD in a very young child with NREM parasomnia responded to oral iron therapy improving overall sleep quality. This case demonstrates the relationship between relative iron deficiency, RSD and associated parasomnia.

https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/45/Supplement_1/A353/6593021

In my childhood I had Restless Sleep Disorder, my cousin was talking to herself during the sleep and my mother was sleepwalking and talking with other people during the sleep. And all of us are on the lower end of the iron scale. In my childhood, I was maybe anemic but in my adulthood my parameters were all ok, albeit iron was always in the lower range. I don't know about ferritin because nobody ever tested that on me. It's just not a popular thing to test in my country. I wonder if the iron was the cause of our sleep problems and it's something that runs in our family? I also had low appetite, which is another thing common in iron deficiency.

I tried taking some iron (7 mg) to see if it would make any difference in how I feel, but it gives me insomnia. A lot of people are complaining about that. Yesterday I took 3.5 mg and I still couldn't fall asleep. Maybe I should go even lower than that? I will try to lower the dose and see how it goes.

 

[Nević Nenad]

I was reading about the connection between iron and sleep problems. Most of the articles are about restless legs syndrome, which I do not have, so I never paid much attention to it, but I found this article in which not only I found mine but also my mother's and her nephew's symptoms:



In my childhood I had Restless Sleep Disorder, my cousin was talking to herself during the sleep and my mother was sleepwalking and talking with other people during the sleep. And all of us are on the lower end of the iron scale. In my childhood, I was maybe anemic but in my adulthood my parameters were all ok, albeit iron was always in the lower range. I don't know about ferritin because nobody ever tested that on me. It's just not a popular thing to test in my country. I wonder if the iron was the cause of our sleep problems and it's something that runs in our family? I also had low appetite, which is another thing common in iron deficiency.

I tried taking some iron (7 mg) to see if it would make any difference in how I feel, but it gives me insomnia. A lot of people are complaining about that. Yesterday I took 3.5 mg and I still couldn't fall asleep. Maybe I should go even lower than that? I will try to lower the dose and see how it goes.

But 7mg is very low, almost as if you didnt took it. If you are having iron deficiency and supplement iron makes you insomniac, how about taking melatonin? Also take iron with vitamin C, or else it would be as if you didnt took it at all. Especially with such small dosage. I'm using this, although not every day. Its 50mg of iron plus other stuff. Its only 25 euro cents for ampule.



Also I found out that every street kiosk now sells these melatonin bombons. Very gentle, but works. Only 1 euro (120 dinars)

 

[Gaby]

I tried taking some iron (7 mg) to see if it would make any difference in how I feel, but it gives me insomnia. A lot of people are complaining about that. Yesterday I took 3.5 mg and I still couldn't fall asleep. Maybe I should go even lower than that? I will try to lower the dose and see how it goes.

Uff, don't take iron if you don't have anemia. There are more issues that can come from iron overload. At some point, just test to know your ferritin and iron saturation levels. If it's low, you know you can supplement.

It's like a mantra in the research field, "ferritin must be higher than...". Yet to see the patient with low ferritin behind their restless leg movements.

I have restless leg syndromes, and I had a polysomnography to document how often my legs move per hour while I sleep. And my iron levels were never low. I have several patients with the same problem, and their iron was never low.

These people should be researching conjunctive tissue disorders and how it affects sleep, the autonomic nervous system and the mastocytes, which drives the restless leg syndrome. Often, there are excessive bleeding problems in these disorders, which could lower iron levels. But the root problem is the conjunctive tissue disorder, and the loss of iron is just secondary. In that case, iron supplements will help, yes.

 

[Persej]

But 7mg is very low, almost as if you didnt took it.

Yes, which makes my reaction even more interesting.

If you are having iron deficiency and supplement iron makes you insomniac, how about taking melatonin?

Yes, some people with the same problem are also taking something to help them fall asleep. I want to try to avoid that because I don't always respond well to melatonin.

Also take iron with vitamin C, or else it would be as if you didnt took it at all.

Yes, this effervescent tablet has vitamin C.

I'm using this, although not every day. Its 50mg of iron plus other stuff. Its only 25 euro cents for ampule.

If I took that, I would probably not sleep for a whole month.

Uff, don't take iron if you don't have anemia. There are more issues that can come from iron overload. At some point, just test to know your ferritin and iron saturation levels. If it's low, you know you can supplement.

I understand. I was wondering if I might feel anything positive if I take just a small dose of it, and now I am intrigued by my reaction. Why did I respond to it in such a way, if food iron never gave me insomnia? Does this form of iron more easily go into my brain? I would like to see if even smaller dose than this would give me any benefit. If not, then I'll stop taking it.