Is naturally fermented bread the way to avoid gluten toxicity?

[RyanX]

I'm still not really able to reconcile the fact that WP came across many cultures who were thriving with vibrant health who were big dairy consumers knowing what we know now about casein).

Yes, I've wondered the same thing too. My only hypothesis is that at one point in time, possibly during some cataclysm, there was a huge selection pressure that bred out all people in specific parts of the world that couldn't thrive off of animal milk - this being the main source of food still left to subsist on. Some of these groups could have been fairly isolated for a long time so that their members still retained the genetic equipment to handle casein.

This might have been what Dr. Price saw and then extrapolated the genetics of these groups to others without fully understanding the full genetic differences between different human populations. OSIT.

FWIW, I think the WP folks are too hung up on raw dairy - some to their detriment. And TPTB are really setting these people up to take the fall for alternative diet practices too. The FDA has been conducting raids on milk-share farms and essentially persecuting these people. It's really distracting people away from the fact that milk is a famine food and was probably never meant to be consumed by humans.

 

[LQB]

My view of the Weston Price Foundation is that they're working well with the information they have - they're using the wisdom of traditional cultures to model diets that are much closer to ideal then mainstream interpretations. I think they're really only one step away from full paleo, but they do seem to be quite attached to raw dairy (and I guess, considering they use Weston Price's findings as the gold standard, who can blame them. I'm still not really able to reconcile the fact that WP came across many cultures who were thriving with vibrant health who were big dairy consumers knowing what we know now about casein). Traditional cultures figured out soaking and fermenting foods was what was best considering what they were given (and considering that they would probably starve were it not for these foods). It's only now that we're starting to see that what they were given wasn't ideal.

My 2 cents...

I agree dugdeep, and WAPF does seem to be slowly moving in the directions against grains, beans etc with their Spring Journal, "Plants Bite Back". In fact they got some very critical letters in the Summer issue over the Spring articles from WAPF members defending these foods. They have invested themselves so heavily that it will take time to "retreat". And yes, very hung up on raw dairy.


Edit: Possibly a good example of the anatomy of the "sacred cow".

 

[dugdeep]

I'm still not really able to reconcile the fact that WP came across many cultures who were thriving with vibrant health who were big dairy consumers knowing what we know now about casein).

Yes, I've wondered the same thing too. My only hypothesis is that at one point in time, possibly during some cataclysm, there was a huge selection pressure that bred out all people in specific parts of the world that couldn't thrive off of animal milk - this being the main source of food still left to subsist on. Some of these groups could have been fairly isolated for a long time so that their members still retained the genetic equipment to handle casein.

This might have been what Dr. Price saw and then extrapolated the genetics of these groups to others without fully understanding the full genetic differences between different human populations. OSIT.

Interesting hypothesis. I was just rereading this thread (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17513.15), specifically Psyche's post (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17513.msg157472#msg157472). The post quotes Sydney MacDonald Baker and his suggestion that it is the lack of DPP4 enzyme, and therefore resulting incomplete digestion of the proteins gluten and casein, that causes the issues. Then Psyche says at the end of the post that "The lack of these enzymes (peptidase) is not only due to heritability, but it is also due to multiple factors including toxicity (for instance, heavy metal toxicity) which ends up impairing their function." This could explain why traditional cultures, who didn't suffer near the amount of toxicity we have to deal with, may have been able to handle dairy products. If they had the right genetics and weren't suffering from impaired enzyme production like the vast majority of the current population is due to toxicity, they might have consumed dairy products without issue.

It's kind of a moot point since today we're likely all suffering from the effects of incomplete digestion of casein, but this might explain how our ancestors were seemingly able to consume dairy, and gluten for that matter, without suffering the same consequences.

[quote author=RyanX]
FWIW, I think the WP folks are too hung up on raw dairy - some to their detriment. And TPTB are really setting these people up to take the fall for alternative diet practices too. The FDA has been conducting raids on milk-share farms and essentially persecuting these people. It's really distracting people away from the fact that milk is a famine food and was probably never meant to be consumed by humans.
[/quote]

This is a very interesting point and a connection I hadn't made. I have noticed that many of the holistic health pundits have jumped into the raw milk fight, guns blazing. Even Mike Adams, who I believe used to voice his objection to dairy consumption, has started talking about the miracle of raw dairy and reports regularly on the ongoing fight for the right to consume it. This battle between raw dairy consumers and the FDA could very well be a distraction, as you've suggest RyanX, designed to vector food rights champions away from real issues into banging their heads against the wall in the dairy debate and to eventually take the fall. All that is really required is one major contamination incident of raw milk for the media to jump on saying "see, these alternative therapies people are a danger to themselves and their children!"

This could make a good article in Dot Connector or on SOTT - "The Raw Dairy Distraction".