Is there something called Russian Wedas?

[Alexander Gottwald]

As there are lots of people in the conspiracy scene who are very fond of Russian culture, once in a while you come along people who suggest that Russia was like the cradle of all human cultuere and civilization. E.g. I once did an interview (English with German subtitles) with Russian philosopher Irene Caesar Ph.D. who claims that in her blog, e.g. here.

Those people also claim to have documents, called the Russian or Aryan Vedas that last back in history for tens of thousands of years. They claim to have been preserved in Siberia and Iceland.

Does anyone here have any experience with those documents? None of it was subject in any of Laura's books on "Secret History of the World" as far as I remember. So is that just Russian propaganda stuff? Part of the New Age COINTELPRO? Or is there something real behind it?

 

[Laura]

As there are lots of people in the conspiracy scene who are very fond of Russian culture, once in a while you come along people who suggest that Russia was like the cradle of all human cultuere and civilization. E.g. I once did an interview (English with German subtitles) with Russian philosopher Irene Caesar Ph.D. who claims that in her blog, e.g. here.

Those people also claim to have documents, called the Russian or Aryan Vedas that last back in history for tens of thousands of years. They claim to have been preserved in Siberia and Iceland.

Does anyone here have any experience with those documents? None of it was subject in any of Laura's books on "Secret History of the World" as far as I remember. So is that just Russian propaganda stuff? Part of the New Age COINTELPRO? Or is there something real behind it?

Don't dismiss it too fast. That's among the things I'm currently exploring by way of Zoroaster.

Also, in SHOTW, I do discuss Siberian shamanism as compared to later corruptions of same.

 

[seek10]

I haven't read the URL you mentioned,so I have limited input. But, it is interesting to read what C's said.

- Atlantean's before so called Noah's flood. Atlantis is more like NATO than homogenous race or culture or language etc. Sanskrit is Atlantian time language. Atlantis itself have 3 different incarnations over 90,000 years. There was a nuclear war around 50,000 years back in India between 2 races Atlantians and now extinct race called Paranthas, that destroyed India and later it got revived. Atlantians( probably other grouping of the same time) has a technological abilities that can make them travel in solar system just like going to street corner shop. So Vimana's or today's planes must have been kids toy.

-After flood, 19 million people moved to different regions like US, Egypt, Maya and Inca etc.
- Around 6000 BC Aryans invaded India. Mostly some thing happened in steppes region, people and who went in different directions. Caste system is Aryan cultural organization.

- Veda's are created by Aryan descendants based on their finding while meditating, later compiled into packages called Vedas.

 

[Alexander Gottwald]

Don't dismiss it too fast.

I don't. I wouldn't have asked in case I considered it meaningless. It's just difficult to trust Russian sources, especially when they claim to be "spiritual".

You heard about this Grabovoi guy? A Russian who claimed to heal by number codes. He went to prison in Russia and later the codes they gave to westerners supposedly got changed so they do harm instead of heal. I heard that from a woman who had earlier books. In later ones they had gotten changed. I had some very bad experiences with those codes around 2010 before having known that.

So I wonder, what they're doing about those vedas. Like the Torah got corrupted as you so brillantly pointed out in SHOTW I suspect they're using those texts to justify Russian predominance in their Eurasia "from Lissabon to Vladiwostok".

As a German (about 5 Million soldiers of my countrymen got killed by Russians and most of our grandmothers raped by them) I think one can't be cautious enough with any information given by Russian sources (just like with US "New Age" stuff!) especially when they claim to be "friends of the Germans" now which they do a lot in German alternative media and among German New Agers.

When I read into those Russian "Vedas" translated into German, they appear like historical documents. But what if they're as biased as the Bible?

That's among the things I'm currently exploring by way of Zoroaster.

Looking forward to your results about that!

Also, in SHOTW, I do discuss Siberian shamanism as compared to later corruptions of same.

This stuff (unfortunately only found it in German) doesn't really have a shamanic appeal... but who knows?

 

[Siberia]

As a German (about 5 Million soldiers of my countrymen got killed by Russians and most of our grandmothers raped by them) I think one can't be cautious enough with any information given by Russian sources...

AG, your feelings are understandable, but in order to be able to see history 'as is' we need to try and leave our emotions at the door to see the objective picture. You say that you cannot trust Russian sources because the Russians earlier brought suffering to German families. But the truth is that the aggressor who actually started the war was the Nazi Germany; the winning party was the Soviet Union (not Russia); and the losses of the Soviet Union in WW2 were about 26-27 million people. Russian people's suffering from the German aggression was horrendous, yet it does not mean that we cannot trust any German sources of information for this reason.

 

[Aiming]

AG, your feelings are understandable, but in order to be able to see history 'as is' we need to try and leave our emotions at the door to see the objective picture. You say that you cannot trust Russian sources because the Russians earlier brought suffering to German families. But the truth is that the aggressor who actually started the war was the Nazi Germany; the winning party was the Soviet Union (not Russia); and the losses of the Soviet Union in WW2 were about 26-27 million people. Russian people's suffering from the German aggression was horrendous, yet it does not mean that we cannot trust any German sources of information for this reason.

I concur, it's important to take a look at the whole picture and take the context of what's been happening into account.

I think one can't be cautious enough with any information given by Russian sources (just like with US "New Age" stuff!) especially when they claim to be "friends of the Germans" now which they do a lot in German alternative media and among German New Agers.

Again, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Sure, it's essential to be discerning with the information you study, and yet, make sure to be discerning as to how your emotional judgement may cloud this very discernment that's so essential! Wars have been happening all throughout human history and will keep happening in a 3D STS world because of psychopathic or otherwise manipulated and corrupt power-driven leaders, and suffering occurs for the large rest of us humans as a result - and on both sides. So as Siberia pointed out, your emotions about war crimes in WW II are one-sided and are thus coloring your viewpoint in a way that doesn't help in coming to a more objective picture. Remain open, consider your personal biases, and look at all angles like a true scientist would.

 

[Laura]

As a German (about 5 Million soldiers of my countrymen got killed by Russians and most of our grandmothers raped by them) I think one can't be cautious enough with any information given by Russian sources (just like with US "New Age" stuff!) especially when they claim to be "friends of the Germans" now which they do a lot in German alternative media and among German New Agers.

If you hang onto that sort of view, as others have noted, you would have to expect that the whole rest of the world would never trust Germany or Germans after WW II, right?

There is certainly a lot of weird stuff that comes out of everywhere, promoted by nutjobs because they exist everywhere. I'm not saying that what this woman is promoting is the correct "take" on the matter, I have yet to finish pulling on those threads.

Think about this, also: as a German, it is altogether likely that your ancestors came from the Russian steppes.

 

[Scottie]

If you hang onto that sort of view, as others have noted, you would have to expect that the whole rest of the world would never trust Germany or Germans after WW II, right?

I know Americans who STILL hate the Japanese for Pearl Harbor. But they don't know and never consider that the nuking of Nagasaki and Hiroshima wasn't even necessary, and caused an insane amount of death and suffering.

WWII resulted in divisions even within several nations that to this day still cause trouble.

Where do you draw the line?

The short answer is that any time we dislike some nation or group due to past or current events, divide and conquer has worked. We see it today with French elections. Paul Craig Roberts basically said the French are clueless morons, but he clearly didn't speak to any French people or consider the idea that Macron may have won due to rigging.

I despise Nazi Germany. Modern Germany is okay, but I would be much happier if they weren't under the thumb of the USA. But even with modern Germany: Is it the people, or the government and corporate clan that are the problem?

Nothing is ever so simple in this world.

 

[Muxel]

Thanks for bringing this up; it is very interesting. Check out this page:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ynglism
I would definitely love to know more about the Slavic-Aryan Vedas!

 

[Alexander Gottwald]

Wow... interesting how it turns out here... now I'm put in the Nazi corner here? :D

Suworow, a Russian historian wrote e.g. here, that if Hitler hadn't attacked surprisingly in that very moment, Stalin would have invaded Europe a few days later. He was ready to go. All his military was designed for attack, not for defense!

Starikov, another Russian historian says that Hitler was a British agent and all they wanted from him was to attack the Soviet Union to finally destroy both.

But well... to be honest: The crowd and its leader here seem to be quite biased: USA = bad. Russia = Good.

Dream on, Putinistas! I'm out of here!

 

[Yozilla]

Well darn, ain't those fabricated national identities rockin' and rollin' ...

 

[Corvus]

Razorblade,
SSSR was not ready for defense not mentioning attack, if it was don t you think Nazis would not so quickly overwhelm their forces and come all the way to Moscow. No need for some biased historian to tell you something you can come by yourself with some bit of logic and common sense. And today everyone can be historian and scientist if he abides by the script, does not mean they have any real knowledge, just a title.

It seems you do not understand how things work in today s world and you are imagining some things.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Wow... interesting how it turns out here... now I'm put in the Nazi corner here? :D

Suworow, a Russian historian wrote e.g. here, that if Hitler hadn't attacked surprisingly in that very moment, Stalin would have invaded Europe a few days later. He was ready to go. All his military was designed for attack, not for defense!

Starikov, another Russian historian says that Hitler was a British agent and all they wanted from him was to attack the Soviet Union to finally destroy both.

But well... to be honest: The crowd and its leader here seem to be quite biased: USA = bad. Russia = Good.

Dream on, Putinistas! I'm out of here!

I think you may be letting your emotions get the better of you here, because your response above is a tell for cognitive dissonance. No one put you in the Nazi corner. If you step outside yourself and read the responses impartially, the point was a very simple - even common-sense - one: it is irrational to distrust an entire people because of a past grievance, especially when practically the entire generation of "guilty parties" are dead. That's it. If anything, the point was that anyone who distrusted YOU because you are German would be an idiot. It's a point that borders on being self-evident.

Just as it is ridiculous to hate Germans today because of what many Germans did 70 years ago, it is ridiculous to hate Russians today because of what many Russians did 70 years ago.

 

[bjorb]

Wow... interesting how it turns out here... now I'm put in the Nazi corner here? :D

Suworow, a Russian historian wrote e.g. here, that if Hitler hadn't attacked surprisingly in that very moment, Stalin would have invaded Europe a few days later. He was ready to go. All his military was designed for attack, not for defense!

Starikov, another Russian historian says that Hitler was a British agent and all they wanted from him was to attack the Soviet Union to finally destroy both.

But well... to be honest: The crowd and its leader here seem to be quite biased: USA = bad. Russia = Good.

Dream on, Putinistas! I'm out of here!

Stalin would have done what, invaded Europe a few days later, a few days later, seriously. If that were true, you think 27 millions would have perished by the Nazi onslaught. Kind of seems like they were totally unprepared of what was being unleashed agains them, let alone prepared to invade Europe and take on Nazi germany. Logic should tell you otherwise,

Besides, documents proof that the Soviet Leadership was taken by suprise by the Nazi military attack. https://www.sott.net/article/296032-Restoration-of-Historical-Truth-Russia-Won-World-War-II

 

[Keit]

Well, apparently there is evidence that in the final days before the attack Stalin received concerned reports from Belorussia and Brest regiment that there is too much activity at the border, and that German troops are preparing for something. But he chose to ignore the reports, for whatever reason, saying that SU had a treaty with Germany, and that they wouldn't attack. This information indicates that there were people in the Red Army that knew that something was up, but they were powerless to do anything significant about it. The orders were not to spread panic. And this gross negligence led to the horrible bloodshed during the first days of War, while in reality all of this could be avoided if they were allowed to prepare.

As for the reports of atrocities and rapes performed by the RA soldiers. Unfortunately there are psychopaths and monsters in every country and every nation. So it would be foolish to assume that only German soldiers did it. Actually, I've heard stories about German soldiers doing small acts of kindness in secret. Not all of them were monsters either, and many of them were put in impossible situations. Red army also had a strict code of conduct. For example, apparently Red Army officers had the right to execute soldiers for cowardice, and that there were many cases when they actually did it. Simply because we are all human, with a wide range of behaviors and reactions.

Sure, SU soldiers' cause was just, as they were liberating their Motherland. But it is an example that War causes deep deformations of the psyche, doesn't matter if the cause is just, or the soldier is part of the aggressor army. For example, my grandfather refused to talk about what he saw during the war. And he was there in Brest on 22nd of June 1941 when Germany attacked, and when the war ended in Berlin on 8th of May 1945. He was a communist, but communists weren't able to completely eradicate people's belief in the "divine". But apparently after the war my grandfather told my grandmother that "there is no God". That if there was God, he wouldn't allow for something like this to happen.

In general, I think it is important to remember that there are several layers to any conflict.