Is this place to ask for advice??

eyesoftheworld

eyesoftheworld

Padawan Learner
I have a dilemma that maybe I could get some help with.
I was married for 10 years to a man that I finally realized is a psychopath. He had a daughter from his previous marriage. The girl is about 24 now. He did not have any custody and was not even allowed to talk to or see her from about age 12 til she was 18. His divorce was terrible - full of legal wrangling - and he painted his ex-wife as a total wreck and the cause of all the trouble. Now, I am pretty sure that this was HIS projection.
I got away from the PP while we were living in Vancouver Canada. (a year ago) I had already lived with him for 4 years in Melbourne Aus. and then we moved to Canada. Both of us are americans and ashamed of it. But his reasons were not the same as mine but rooted in ego. My reasons were more about trying to maintain some integrity as a human.
This girl, B, is coming to the Bay area where I live for a vacation with her friend. But now, her girlfriend can’t come so she wants to stay with me. I was planning to see her and meet up for dinner while she is here but now she wants to stay with me.
This has been an incredibly hard year for me. Coming to terms with what I had lived with, loved, trusted, nursed to health, stood up for . I spent 12 years with him in all and I never gave in to psychopathic babbling (wish I had known LONG ago that he was a PP) and spent years and tears trying to reason with him, talk him out of rages, explain why people were angry with him.. being rational does not work. I never could figure that out. He’s a smart man... I just could not believe that the schadenfreude he displayed was how he REALLY was... all the time. No compassion, empathy, understanding. His rage turned to black, suppressed anger after he had to attend some Anger Mgmt Classes. His daughter and I both urged him to do that. He was in trouble at work again for anger. But the ‘treatment’ made him worse. That’s when the beady, black eye syndrome started. Predator eyes as I understand now.
So now she wants to stay with me. It is making me depressed to think about being around any of his family. B is a nice person as far as I know and has not acted out or appeared to be a PP like him (and his father...). She is a vegetarian and a superficial kind of person. Has college degrees in archeology but does not show much interest in archeology when I’ve talked to her about it. In the 4 or 5 times I’ve been around her (she visited us in Aus and Canada), it has been awkward after a while because she doesn’t show a lot of interest in deeper things but sure does spend a lot of time with FB....

So friends, what do I do? I have tried to achieve some serenity while getting through this massive change. At 66, it is hard to start over but I am doing it! Will be moving back to Oz in Jan 2014 but feel weird about letting her into any of my plans. I want her father to know nothing about me anymore. He is a sad excuse for a human and I feel danger when I think about him. But she seems normal.
Any ideas? How would you handle this? She asked me this by email yesterday and is looking for a YES, I am sure. I need to say something to her. But what?
Many thanks,
Carol
 
If it were me, I would simply tell her I cannot host her and make any excuse, busy, work, out of town, whatever. It does not sound like you two were ever close. Does she have contact with her father? I would avoid any connection to him like the plague!
 
Hi Lilou - thanks for the reply. Your response was my first one too. I was never REAL close to her but have had her in my home a few times while I was married to her father and she seems to understand how screwed-up he is. We have not talked about psychopathy in any depth - I want to respect what feelings she does have for him. He will be living in Tasmania soon and she lives (with her boyfriend) in the downstairs flat of her grandma's ( his mother who is also badly integrated) in suburban Maryland. Grandma lived with her PP husband until he died. She just discovered he was a psychopath (6 years after he died). She had a pretty unhappy life.
I guess I feel some trepidation for her being alone and visiting San Francisco by herself. I try to put myself in her shoes. I do feel protective of her. It leaves me with a lot of doubt about just saying no to her....
 
It just doesn't make sense - why would she come on this vacation, alone, if her traveling companion has cancelled?
 
eyesoftheworld said:
I guess I feel some trepidation for her being alone and visiting San Francisco by herself. I try to put myself in her shoes. I do feel protective of her. It leaves me with a lot of doubt about just saying no to her....
Click to expand...

If by feeling doubt you mean doubt about yourself ie. doing the right thing, being a decent person to her etc. then I don't think you need to feel this way, eyesoftheworld. It is her choice to come to SF by herself. What seems most important here is that you continue to get yourself on track right now, and consider all the many things that will help you through this time and prepare yourself for your big move to OZ.

Of course, if you really feel like B deserves a dinner meeting maybe you can do this with the proviso that you are otherwise very busy with an on-line correspondence course you are taking in Secret History, not to mention helping a sick friend. Or, whatever you need to say to give her the understanding that now is just not a good time for her to be staying with you. It can be an exercise in strategic enclosure, but really, as Lilou said, you should be avoiding any connection to your ex like the plague.
 
I agree with what Lilou and Ennio have said, eyesoftheworld. I think a lot of the time we feel a certain sense of guilt at saying "no" to someone's request. I think you have to realize that what B is asking has the potential to really put you out. Having a house guest can be quite stressful (never mind the history you share with this person), so I think you should feel perfectly justified in denying the request. Meeting for a meal or a tea sounds reasonable, but having her as a guest in your home seems to be asking a lot. Given that you've said you're not that close, she's probably just looking to save a few bucks.
 
dugdeep said:
I agree with what Lilou and Ennio have said, eyesoftheworld. I think a lot of the time we feel a certain sense of guilt at saying "no" to someone's request. I think you have to realize that what B is asking has the potential to really put you out. Having a house guest can be quite stressful (never mind the history you share with this person), so I think you should feel perfectly justified in denying the request. Meeting for a meal or a tea sounds reasonable, but having her as a guest in your home seems to be asking a lot. Given that you've said you're not that close, she's probably just looking to save a few bucks.
Click to expand...

I agree. Saying no to having her as a house guest is totally reasonable in this case.
 
Lilou said:
It just doesn't make sense - why would she come on this vacation, alone, if her traveling companion has cancelled?
Click to expand...

I think it makes sense. She might have already booked non-refundable travel tickets, and be okay with the idea of traveling alone.

Since you are not obligated to let her stay in your home, I think I would just say no in a fairly direct way, rather than giving reasons about being particularly busy or not having the space etc.
If you say "no because I am very busy that week", that is kind of like saying "if I wasn't so busy, I would of course say yes, because I am under an obligation to provide you with a place to stay", which is not really the case.

Meeting somewhere (maybe your home, maybe somewhere else) for a tea or coffee sounds like a good option if you do want to catch up with her.

You could ask yourself, does she want to stay with you because she wants to spend time with you, or does she want to stay with you because it will be a convenient or cheaper option for herself? (Not that there is anything wrong with people seeking what is convenient or cheaper, but if those are her main reasons, it might make it easier to say no?)
 
The doubts I am feeling are more about worry for her safety. She is a small young woman - not real assertive even though she has the tats and used
to be quite the punk. I think that her asking to stay with me (I was kind of her stepmother for 10 years and have been very sympathetic to her
situations) has more to do with not wanting to spend her short vacation alone (in the big city) as much as a funding issue.
I think she proceeded with her trip even though the friend can't go because the flight is paid for and she wants to see me. It did not come
across in my post, I guess, but I do love her. And she has been loving to me. She is a very sweet girl who started her life on a a battlefield.
As with my relationship with her father, I know her parents had constant tension, anger, scenes... hell of a way to grow up.

When her plans were being formed she asked if she could spend her last night with me after her friend went back east. I said yes. Now it's getting
extended but I really do not think it was intentional or planned this way. She is pretty straightforward. She also has a pretty good idea of
what I've been going through but I don't know if she internalized that knowledge.
I am going to try to talk face-to-face with her tomorrow on Skype and get a better idea of her expectations and attitude.
Many thanks for sharing your ideas. I have talked with the I Ching about it all too. Got Hex. 28 and 21 (Biting Through!! hahaha) I use
the Wilhelm version and love it. It has helped me understand the paradigms operant at certain times. But I love being able to have a
'chat' with you to get ideas and perspectives... it is better than a book.
 
Hi eyesoftheworld

I understand your dilemma as I have been in a similar situation myself but with an ex's (he is the psychopath) mother who wanted to remain friends. She was a lovely person but it was necessary to have firm boundaries. Over the past few years I have dwindled the friendship away but when ever we met I made a rule to never discuss her son. If the subject came up I was very disinterested and changed the subject.

Im sure that you will manage this well with all of the excellent advice you have been given on this fourm.

It is very difficult to cut people out of our lives especially if they have done nothing to hurt us and your worrying about it shows that you are a caring person.

The connection to the psychopath is worrying as they can and often do find a way to discover if people close to them are connecting with their past. In my case it was secretly obtaining his Mothers email password to look at emails that I had sent her. She had caught him out. After that I immediately cooled it off with his Mother even though I know it did hurt her. It was necessary for my safety and sanity.

Dont underestimate the lengths that a psychopath will go to. He sounds like a horrible piece of work and they never forget.
 
Many thanks for all the advice. Yours sounded like my situation, FrenchMarigold. After several days of attempts to talk on Skype,
I finally just sent an email telling B that I could not host her. No explanation other then telling her I was finally achieving some
serenity.
But then we did connect on skype tonight and talked for a long time. She did not wheedle or try to coerce and sounds like she
is taking responsibility to plan her own vacation. I will meet up in town with her and show her around and have a nice meal
(no seafood, rats...) and catch up. But I don't want to talk about her PP father. So I can control the amount of contact and that
feels right.
Thanks again for the help!
Carol
 
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