Is "training" my dog a STS effort?

[Laura]

Turn the sound down (music is annoying) and watch this girl work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCxtR02Awjo

Cherie would love to do that! But I couldn't hold up!

Watch this border collie work the sheep:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJiUxhqcCV0

Believe me, they do MOST of this naturally!

Check out this one about Shelties. I can verify every word is true!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yabo_JPvfmc

This one is amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcHeO4rLniE The second dog can hardly wait to get started! And the performance is astounding and you can SEE that they like it. Reminds me of what our little girls do on their own!

I keep telling people that Cherie talks and here's a video of another collie that does it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLNwxwG1Y8Y

And there's nothing like Collie puppies, except maybe sheltie puppies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjDOGg79vBI

This is how I am greeted whenever I come home:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx_tsa-Fe_g

Only I usually put everything down and sit with the dogs for a few minutes until they get enough lovies. And just a note, the high-pitched bark is not a bark, it is TALKING. When they bark, it sounds VERY different! Like this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUVfIXO_cOs

Okay, enough. I'll be wanting another collie.

 

[Andromeda]

I think it really just depends on the doggie and the specific situation. Our sheltie Sebastian is reeeally smart and was very trainable as a pup. He probably could have learned rocket engineering - but he didn't enjoy learning tricks, so his repertoire is limited. He was taught to 'sit' for safety in some situations, and because one of his favorite things to do was to run guard for whoever went out for the mail, we taught him that 'program number one' meant someone was going to get the mail. Sebastian's character is that of a guard - and he takes his duties very seriously! Jasmine also doesn't like performing so she only had to learn to sit - because otherwise I'd never catch her to give her a bath. She doesn't do tricks but she feels that she has particular duties. She raises the alarm and barks at anything unusual (well, just anything) - or she comes to find me during blackouts to let me know something is going on.

Then we have Nokomis and Luna. They don't really have any particular duty except backup barking/guarding, but they LOVE training and they do lots of tricks - actually, they really just learned the names of the things they do naturally. They like the special attention they get in 'training' sessions and the special type of communication. It's not just the normal lovies, it's a more focused play where words relate to specific action.

So at least for our doggies, it seems important for them to be able to do something 'serious' or have a role/duty/talent besides just being lovable. Maybe other breeds are different though.

 

[cubbex]

I guess is not an STS effort, if you teach more or less your dog to follow some rules, like when he can help its necessities, to let the house be clean. It may be STS if your dog feels uncomfortable with it, after seeing its reaction through the sessions. The best trained dogs are those trained with love, at the end they love their owners so the obey them, if they are happy getting trained I don't see the what's wrong.

Maybe is better to discern things between what's right and what's not.

 

[Laura]

Then we have Nokomis and Luna. They don't really have any particular duty except backup barking/guarding, but they LOVE training and they do lots of tricks - actually, they really just learned the names of the things they do naturally. They like the special attention they get in 'training' sessions and the special type of communication. It's not just the normal lovies, it's a more focused play where words relate to specific action.

I think this is kind of key: learning words. Our dogs seem to WANT to learn words and several of them really, REALLY try to talk! I can talk to them about things and darned if they don't demonstrate rather often that they actually understand what is being said to them.

We never, ever, EVER strike them. If one of them gets really excited and hormonally driven to act out (like wanting to tear up the neighbor or his dogs), we grab them, roll them over on their backs, put the arm across their neck area and say "no!" very strongly. If they have a disagreement with one another (which happens with 8 dogs), just grab them both by the scruff of the neck and lift and set down apart while saying "no!" strongly. Then, it is a good idea to separate them for awhile and try to figure out what is up. Sometimes it is jealousy, feeling that the other dog is getting more lovies, or whatever. So you have to make sure that the aggressive one gets plenty of love but NOT in any way that makes them think that it is a result of bad behavior. It has to come AFTER they have been put in the quiet corner for a bit and understand that aggression like that is not tolerated. Such things as that are rare, but one has to deal with it without psychologically harming the dog or making matters worse. Generally, our pack gets along very well. And we notice that they tend to hang out by breed. The collies know they are collies and the shelties know they are shelties.

 

[cubbex]

I forgot to mention something, I don't know if its important taking into consideration the dog's breed? My mom works with dogs, and I've seen that some breeds are easier to train or work with, chows chows are very aggressive even with their owners, and others like great dane an english bulldog are very sociable.

 

[Buddy]

...so what purpose does it serve anyone to have her sit just because I or someone else says sit?

Maybe because of what 'sitting' represents? Like small children, maybe dogs want and need spontaneous interactions and learning experiences? I think it might even be negligence to otherwise ignore an animal whose happiness and pleasure derives from service or helpfulness by any other name.

 

[cherokeemist]

I didn't train Komfort in the traditional sense. I decided early on that I was going to treat her more like a companion. I smothered her with love and affection and I believe this helped shape who she is. A kind and gentle girl. She does have domination issue's with other dogs especially females but this wasn't something I was able to detect when she was seven weeks old. She's improved over the years. I did work extensively with her to accept other animals as living beings and not to go after them as prey. She is so smart, she understands that it's wrong to kill. Because of her background, I trained her to search and track and Komfort picked up on that like she was born to track. She always walk on my left and walks in a well behaved manner unless we run into another dog. Understand now, Komfort has many dog friends and a few cat friends too, so she's not vicious, just dominate. In Michigan we have a leash law and you have to have your dog on a leash. However, we can walk in the woods without a leash and she never lets me get out of her eyesight. She has an extreme ball drive, which is a great and wonderful thing...if you're going to use a shepherd for police work, this is one trait they look for. We play frisbee every morning, rain or shine. I did socialize her with people and she's never bit or acted aggressive towards anyone but she can be a little too protective, for instance, if I'm in my bedroom, she won't let you past the door. I am an amputee and maybe she feels more protective of me because I'm disabled, I don't know but this is also something I've never been able to stop her from doing.
It's funny that you should bring up this subject. I had bought a bird before bringing Komfort into my life. Just seeing that beautiful animal caged up like a prisoner affected me to the point that I had to give her away. This had an affect about how I was going to raise Komfort. This was before I knew about sts or sto's. If anything, Komfort has me well trained, I serve her well.

 

[buz/p]

It depends on the breed of dog what the relationship will/should be between you and the dog. I grew up around Border Collies on the farm.

I remember as a kid my father bringing home a ten month old Retriever mix looking dog who he 'rescued' from some relatives who lived in town. The dog had been chained in the back yard. Each day (the story goes) kids walking down the alley tormented and teased the dog. My uncle maintained that the dog had turned mean and they couldn't keep a mean dog.

My father immediately began to train and discipline the dog to modify its behavior. He worked with this dog for hours/days/weeks. We had very recently gotten a Border Collie pup in order to assist in working the cows. At the training sessions of the rescue dog my father ignored the pup who was curious and concentrated on the rescue dog. As I watched my father attempt to teach sit I noticed that the pup would run up and plop himself down. Lay down... he would immediately lay down and wait. stay... come... each time the pup would perform the asked for action (much to my father's frustration because the rescue dog just didn't seem to get it). Finally my father began to pay attention to the pup (Smokey).

I learned at an early age that dogs according to their genes do what comes naturally. A working breed dog not only wants to work they need to work. It's in their genes. It satisfies them to work. A guard dog guards. Our Anatolian subsumed our entire neighborhood into her family and felt responsible for everything that she could see (much to the consternation of our neighbors.) I have seen her stop cars on the road to our house which she didn't recognize. A hunting breed hunts. A Retriever retrieves. That is why it is important to be careful in selecting a dog to share one's life. Some dogs become quite frustrated if the environment is not conducive to their breeding. For instance I would never consider stock working dog to share a mid-town apartment.

Within certain limits some dogs can be conditioned at cross purposes. For instances a dog bred for fighting such as a Pit Bull can under certain circumstances make a fine companion.
I often wish that I connected with people as effortlessly as animals. [ I rambled again. Sorry]

 

[webglider]

quote by buzz/p

That is why it is important to be careful in selecting a dog to share one's life. Some dogs become quite frustrated if the environment is not conducive to their breeding. For instance I would never consider stock working dog to share a mid-town apartment.

We had neighbors across the hall several years ago who had an Austrailan Border Collie who was really sweet as a puppy.
Something happened at some point that made the dog a menace. She traumatized the little boy down the hall when he was very very little. I was even afraid of the dog, and I really like dogs.

I don't think it was the owners who were responsible for the dog's behavior - they were very loving and did everything they could, such as hiring a behavior modication trainer, to help the dog ajust. I was somewhat concerned when they kept their dog after their baby was born, but the dog seemed to love and want to protect the baby.

I agree with what you said at the end of the first paragraph about the low frustration level for certain breeds. This dog should have been on a farm herding sheep not living in a 4th floor apartment terrorizing the neighbors.

 

[Ripred]

I don’t think training a dog is STS particularly. Perhaps showing dogs and breeding them is, but you have to train them to live in our dangerous world. My dog who died at 16 was fine off leash from birth and needed very little training, part border collie. I’ve got two rescues now. One is an older dog (coonhound mix) and her issues are manageable. But this little two year old+ who lived on her own in a pack for a year (and had puppies) on an native reserve in northern Canada I call the Wild Child. She is reactive to anything on wheels including the usual skateboards and inline skaters but also wheelchairs, ebikes, motorcycles and strollers, lol. Very prey focused and her eyes burn with passionate interest in everything she sees on the walks.
Sweet sensitive dog. Last night in bed my ankles started aching and she moved from the head of the bed and settled right on my ankles. She is an energy conduit (as are all dogs but her, even moreso.) I really don’t think much of Cesar Milan’s methods (had one trainer using them and it made her more reactive) so now I’m trying to work WITH her prey drive as a way to train her through something called natural dog training. It requires a lot of physical effort from me with tug and push games etc and it’s hard on my 53 year old bod but I am getting results.

My dog would also benefit from formal agility but I relate about not wanting to drive around to shows!