Jacques Vallee on torture

Beau

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I came across this mini-essay by Vallee talking about waterboarding and the methods of torture used by the Bush Admin. I was pretty disappointed with what I read. He seems to think that those who torture are actually after the truth. What seems to be more likely is that they were torturing because they wanted to get their victims to admit to certain things that would fit within their plans in Iraq and Afghanistan. He really misses the boat on this one IMO.

from http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/18/waterboardings-curio.html

When it was revealed that the U.S. resorted to torture to extract information from prisoners, many people my age must have had a very somber thought for the thousands of young Americans who had given their lives on the beaches of Normandy in a brave effort to rid the world of governments that engaged in such shameful practices. Two other thoughts flashed to mind: the stupidity of giving up the high moral ground at a time when the U.S. had earned so much goodwill thanks to its stand on democracy and human rights; and the pointlessness of such interrogations, often stated by our military experts, since the victims will generally admit to anything in order to stop the pain.

My friend, French Résistance leader Jacques Bergier, who was tortured multiple times by the Gestapo, made the ludicrous "confession" that his network planned to invade Corsica. In reality they were looking for heavy water and for Werner von Braun's rocket base.

As a child of World War Two who remembers its limitless horrors, my revulsion at the practices of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib was so great that it took me a while to realize the more positive implications: if our henchmen used waterboarding, a practice so primitive it placed us in the same hateful historical imagery as the caves of the Inquisition and the cellars of the Nazi, this can only mean that all the fancy interrogation drugs developed in classified labs in the 60s and 70s have failed: there is no truth serum. We should be relieved about that.

We already knew that LSD, once hyped as the ultimate key to the mind, did little more than propel you into colorful delusions. But evil doctors had other tricks and claimed to be working in secret on even better, kinder biotech ways to crack open the human soul and read it like a book. Using everything from neurotoxin derivatives to functional MRIs, the State would soon overcome personality defenses, in the interest of our collective safety. It would finally control not only our deeds but our thoughts as well, thus achieving law and order on a grand scale.

Evidently the scheme hasn't quite worked out as predicted: If we could simply slip a little green pill to the bad guys to find out their plans, we wouldn't have to resort to messy medieval practices that don't work. So let's go back to the legal methods of interrogation recommended by the professionals. And let's thank waterboarding for the realization that our intimate thoughts, prayers and dreams, flaky though they may be, will remain safe from chemical violation a little while longer.
 
Heimdallr said:
I came across this mini-essay by Vallee talking about waterboarding and the methods of torture used by the Bush Admin. I was pretty disappointed with what I read. He seems to think that those who torture are actually after the truth. What seems to be more likely is that they were torturing because they wanted to get their victims to admit to certain things that would fit within their plans in Iraq and Afghanistan. He really misses the boat on this one IMO.

I didn't get that from what he wrote at all. It was, in fact, a sort of sideways slap.

Added: At the same time, it also indicates that Vallee is very naive if he really believes what he wrote here. The PTB doing the torturing may very well have drugs or ways of extracting truth if they want to. But torture isn't about getting to the truth, it's about terrorizing the population by letting them know that they, too, will be tortured if they don't toe the line.
 
Laura said:
I didn't get that from what he wrote at all. It was, in fact, a sort of sideways slap.

Added: At the same time, it also indicates that Vallee is very naive if he really believes what he wrote here. The PTB doing the torturing may very well have drugs or ways of extracting truth if they want to. But torture isn't about getting to the truth, it's about terrorizing the population by letting them know that they, too, will be tortured if they don't toe the line.

Agreed. I think that's definitely a big reason for all the torture and its proliferation through the media. I do think that Vallee was making a sideways slap with his comments, it just to me seemed like the people he thought he was slapping weren't going to be affected by his words at all. His last paragraph is what really stood out to me:

Evidently the scheme hasn't quite worked out as predicted: If we could simply slip a little green pill to the bad guys to find out their plans, we wouldn't have to resort to messy medieval practices that don't work. So let's go back to the legal methods of interrogation recommended by the professionals. And let's thank waterboarding for the realization that our intimate thoughts, prayers and dreams, flaky though they may be, will remain safe from chemical violation a little while longer.

If we take the idea that torture isn't just about getting information but also scaring the populace, then "the scheme" has worked out, even though it's not quantifiable how much it has worked on people. And let's face it, who are these "professionals" who are recommending legal methods of interrogation? That's what John Yoo and Alberto Gonzales were doing, at least in their minds. And like you said, it's naive to think the PTB don't have ways to invade our intimate thoughts. Using the idea that they are waterboarding as the logic to say that they don't have workable truth serums seems like faulty logic to me. More like wishful thinking.
 
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