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Tomek

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Hello everyone,

Today I'd like to tell you about a few changes that may occur, or not, in my life. I worked for a year as a contractor for a major telecommunications company in France. The money is okay, just enough to live, not really enough to put money aside or to contribute more to the Network. It's tech support, the work is pretty boring, and doesn't present any challenge or opportunity to learn. Fortunately I have no direct contact with customers, it's not a hotline! I have done enough of this in recent years, and receive human stupidity directly into the ear canal 8 hours a day is something I do not wish to anyone.

As it is a contractor job, my employer is free to assign me to other missions for other clients. However, I lack the training and experience to address most demanding things in IT, so I informed my boss in an interview yesterday, that I was very motivated to be trained and move on. He did not seem to hear it that way and instead asked me to continue to rise in power over the position I now hold, to eventually replace our team manager on this mission. This perspective does not particularly interest me, pay will increase only gradually over the years, and it will remain boring technical support, as I did for years. Nevertheless, this work is a stable source of income and sure enough, given the current economic climate, the IT business knows less economic crisis than other sectors.

Meanwhile, a few days ago, I met another person who offered me a job. He is the owner of a small structure, still in IT, and seems to have enough customers to run the company. It aims to train me in many aspects of the IT business, in exchange for which I would attend on delivery missions, not exciting but necessary to run the company, and also, once I'm trained, to the R&D for a large software project that he intends to launch soon on the market. Payroll is better, working conditions much more flexible, and I have the opportunity to learn many things about the industry. But it is much more risky: there is no suggestion that the large software project has a chance to sell, and the gentleman gave me the impression to add a little when he spoke to me of his previous achievements . According to him, he almost invented the e-mail.

In short, by agreeing to resign to join his small structure, I lose all my rights to unemployment to get into a risky but potentially rewarding, both financially and personally. Risks vs. rewards ... I torture my mind for several days to know what to do. Left it alone with all that awaits us as disasters and pandemics and fascist governments ? I'd do better not to wait until it hits the fan, and make decisions that will be necessary at this time?

There is also another track that I explore: in French labor law, I can pretend to date a year of paid leave, remaining an employee in my current company, to complete the training of my choice. It can be in the computer, or in any area. My boss is legally obliged to give me the training, so I think to take a course for a year in order to move up a gear in the computer industry. Or become a florist, or whatever I want.

Sorry for the length of this message, and thanks for reading it. What do you think about this situation ?
 
Tomek said:
Meanwhile, a few days ago, I met another person who offered me a job. He is the owner of a small structure, still in IT, and seems to have enough customers to run the company. It aims to train me in many aspects of the IT business, in exchange for which I would attend on delivery missions, not exciting but necessary to run the company, and also, once I'm trained, to the R&D for a large software project that he intends to launch soon on the market. Payroll is better, working conditions much more flexible, and I have the opportunity to learn many things about the industry. But it is much more risky: there is no suggestion that the large software project has a chance to sell, and the gentleman gave me the impression to add a little when he spoke to me of his previous achievements . According to him, he almost invented the e-mail.

In short, by agreeing to resign to join his small structure, I lose all my rights to unemployment to get into a risky but potentially rewarding, both financially and personally. Risks vs. rewards ... I torture my mind for several days to know what to do. Left it alone with all that awaits us as disasters and pandemics and fascist governments ? I'd do better not to wait until it hits the fan, and make decisions that will be necessary at this time?

Where's the market research? Hard data on customer demand? I think you should carefully read this guy's business plan and find out as much as possible before coming to any kind of decision.

There is also another track that I explore: in French labor law, I can pretend to date a year of paid leave, remaining an employee in my current company, to complete the training of my choice. It can be in the computer, or in any area. My boss is legally obliged to give me the training, so I think to take a course for a year in order to move up a gear in the computer industry. Or become a florist, or whatever I want.

Sorry for the length of this message, and thanks for reading it. What do you think about this situation ?

So you could join this new guy while still getting paid for your current job, and it would just be considered training? And if the business fails, you could easily get back to your current job? This sounds like a bit of a free lunch to me, but then again I know the French are less demanding on the labour force
 
Carlise said:
Where's the market research? Hard data on customer demand? I think you should carefully read this guy's business plan and find out as much as possible before coming to any kind of decision.
Yeah well, that's the problem. My brother-in-law used to work with him a few years ago, he told me that, yes, the new guy is a genius regarding computer sciences, but he's not focused enough to lead big business projects, only small contractors jobs like he did for years.

There is also another track that I explore: in French labor law, I can pretend to date a year of paid leave, remaining an employee in my current company, to complete the training of my choice. It can be in the computer, or in any area. My boss is legally obliged to give me the training, so I think to take a course for a year in order to move up a gear in the computer industry. Or become a florist, or whatever I want.

So you could join this new guy while still getting paid for your current job, and it would just be considered training? And if the business fails, you could easily get back to your current job? This sounds like a bit of a free lunch to me, but then again I know the French are less demanding on the labour force

Oh, no, sorry, I wasn't clear. There's three options :

1) Keep the current job, waiting for the good will of my boss : safe job, boring job.
2) Go with the new guy, taking risks : better pay now (150-200€ more), much things to learn, risk to go unemployed without unemployment rights.
3) Keep the current job, force a training year but not with the new guy : a real training year, like in school. I keep my payroll and my job, I go back to my company after this training year, and I might be assigned to better missions with my brand new diploma. And if I don't go to school, no payroll !

EDIT : I almost forgot a 4th option :

4) Keep the current job, force a training year but not in IT, in something completely different, maybe something more useful to the Network, anything.
 
The problem here, or a red flag as I see it, is going with someone who is grandiose, talks a lot, but does not deliver. In other words, what you have described in that man that has that small company is all I would call red flags. Talks much, does not work out in real world as he says. Seeing the bigger picture here, you can get the training you want with your current company, and it seems like the most stable option. I cant seem to shake the negative feeling about those grandiose types that talk the talk but do not walk the walk in smaller companies. Having a steady work today is a hard task, so I would not be quick in your place, to throw all that away based on talks from a guy with a small company - you really do not know more about him then he told you, as I understand, and that is not a really good thing to go out and trust him just like that.
 
flycat said:
The problem here, or a red flag as I see it, is going with someone who is grandiose, talks a lot, but does not deliver. In other words, what you have described in that man that has that small company is all I would call red flags. Talks much, does not work out in real world as he says. Seeing the bigger picture here, you can get the training you want with your current company, and it seems like the most stable option. I cant seem to shake the negative feeling about those grandiose types that talk the talk but do not walk the walk in smaller companies. Having a steady work today is a hard task, so I would not be quick in your place, to throw all that away based on talks from a guy with a small company - you really do not know more about him then he told you, as I understand, and that is not a really good thing to go out and trust him just like that.

Hi Tomek,

I'd agree with flycat. I've been having a similar discussions with a man with a small company who's keen for me to join him and help grow his business. I've worked with him for the past few years on side projects and trust him but it is funny hearing how he talks. Every week he has a new lead/potential client that is going to bring him the large contract he needs to make the business profitable. None have so far...maybe they will but I find the persistent talk of 'potential' unsettling. I was toying with the idea of going part time in my current job and joining him two days a week to start. But I realise that where I am now does give me a reasonable salary and more importantly, is not mentally demanding and gives me time to focus on 'allotria' as Einstein described in his stint at the Patent office:

The patent office job — Einstein referred to it, tongue-in-cheek, as his «cobbler's trade» — turned out to be stroke of good fortune because it was excellently paid (3,500 Swiss francs per year) and was undemanding for his nimble intelligence. He spoke of the patent office as «a worldly cloister where he hatched his most beautiful ideas». With his courteousness and modesty and his humorous approach to life, Einstein was very well-liked. On April 1, 1906 he was promoted to technical assistant-level II. He managed his time exactly: eight hours of work, eight hours of «allotria» (miscellaneous) and scientific work and eight hours of sleep (which he often used instead for writing his manuscripts). Much to the patent office's regret, he left in the fall of 1909 to accept the post of Professor Extraordinary in theoretical physics at the University of Zurich.
_https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/einstein/einstein-at-the-patent-office.html

I think joining him would unnecessarily add uncertainty and flux to my life which I really don't need. Potentially I could earn more and maybe the new job would be more interesting but at what cost? I had to ask myself what is most important at this moment in time. For me it is time and so I've decided to stay put. I will continue to remain in contact with him and see how his business develops. Maybe one day it might be a viable option but not one I would give up the current security I have for.

Your situation is different of course and training sounds good if you have the opportunity but I think it is worth asking yourself whether the benefits of working for a risky venture would be worth the added stress and uncertainty?
 
Hi Tomek,

I agree with both flycat and Pob, and coming from a different perspective - I've been that 'small company [director] always with a new lead/potential client (even a long-established client) that [was] going to bring me the large project to make the business profitable'. None did, and through spending a lot of time on preparing for the opportunity with the long-established client I took my eye off the ball completely in terms of establishing orders and when the market dropped (financially), I was forced to make myself redundant, even though I had orders (prepaid), due to a lack of cashflow - which is the usual reason for companies going under.
 
Thank you very much for your answers. I also submitted my case to friends last night and they came to the same conclusions as you. So I think to follow a year of training, while remaining employed. Also, I just got some good news: I pass some tests a month ago, without much hope, for a new elite computer sciences school that will open its doors this November. I am selected! I still have an interview, but I'm still pretty happy with my performance.
 
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