jobs vs. The Work, homelessness & WANDERERing

Heimdallr said:
Hello cheezemurda49.

I edited your post above to remove the explicit references to drug use. If you weren't aware, you agreed to the forum guidelines upon signing up on this forum. They clearly state:

Please don't post messages about your illegal pastimes and habits. Cassiopaea.org does not wish to appear to condone such practices, for reasons that should be pretty obvious if a little common sense is applied. If you do post such stuff, expect it to be deleted immediately. It is also inadvisible to post about illegal pastimes from yesteryear, drug use for example, (unless you are disavowing all such usage). The reason is that by doing so you run the risk of attracting lurker "drug buddies", which you probably don't want to do.
Just for the record i want to add that i have been clean for a number of years now. I was addicted much of my life and it was a struggle to get clean but certainly of i can do it then absolutely anyone can. It takes a lot of time and self work. Abstinence alone will not do it.
That being said i have to agree with Riannon below that ot sounds like you want things handed to you and are not willing to work for them. This is basically the opposite of the stance the forum takes. I do understand that mindset as it was also mine for most of my life but i finally came to realize that those i had thought foolish when they said nothing in life os free and would not take advantage of things i thought were a given were actually right. You will start seeing doors open up all over the place when you start to take responsibility. My personal take on it is kind of like karma. Well it is the whole sto premise really. If we all gave instead of took then we would all also be receiving. The cs have said that we live in an sto world for a reason. That on some level it was our choice for learning purposes and that we have to learn hthe lessons of this life in order to move on to better things. Have you read the wave yet?
http://cassiopaea.org/category/volumes/the-wave/
 
cheezemurda49 said:
[...]
Its not about a warm bed, food, or company. Its about doing what's right, at all costs.

This is my main concern.

Hello cheezemurda49. To be honest, I am really perplexed. You say to be homeless. I believe you said to have been monitoring this forum for years. I've been homeless too. This is why I am confused. How do you power your computer? How do get onto the internet? Methinks you may need to display some honesty. This being said, I have been wrong about many of my early perceptions. This is why I ask, trying to understand, set myself straight.

I can understand your issues with violence against all forms of life. But, being what we are, we do need sustenance to power these biomachines we currently inhabit. Do we not?

We are indeed slaves, we were born into it. We are where we are and we gotta Do as you say, "what's right". Thing is we gotta figure out what is right. As said before, we gotta live in this world but not be of this world. How do you reconcile this?


edit: correct bbc codes
 
cheezemurda49 said:
See, this is why I need HELP. But I am very serious about my spirit and what I'm doing with it... Does ANYBODY feel these things, too. I do not apologize for being me, but I do apologize for being a seemingly stick in the mud, its just that I'm stuck.. In the mud. And I have to be able to sleep at night, you know, with my conscious. I'm really not trying to be difficult, I'm trying to find the answers to difficult questions.
I'm definitely looking into the whole opening the flow of exchange principle, but to comment.. And not just for me, but others going through similar issues..

I can't feel these things anymore, but I can remember. It was long time ago when I had some money and no real job. I was free. I was lamenting what to do with my life, what to do with myself and the only thing that would make any sense was to work on myself. And for three months I was thinking about things and about myself. Why do I like this and do not like that. Or what it is good for to want anything etc.

And I was outside and could do whatever I wish to do and I felt the freedom. I can understand what you say and it makes perfect sense. Planning is nonsense because you are then tied down. Appointments are the same. In true STO environment one just simply does what comes naturally and when all are working this way it is a perfectly organized structure. There is no need to sell yourself because no one is more and no one is less.

I can remember how I realized all these things that you are now talking about. And then I was ready to serve this universe, to serve others but nobody came whom I truly could serve. I was really sad because there was no one who could grasp what I knew. And as you put it there were only people interested in slaves and slavery. Then I got low on money and with faith that this universe knows what is best for me I applied for a job and I got it.

And I was no longer free. I started to lose all that I gained so painstakingly. No wonder in an environment full of psychos and tyrants and even pedophiles. And now if I would not remember, I wouldn't grasp what you are talking about. But I can understand you perfectly.
You wish to serve but not to be a slave. Not to force yourself to get to the job at eight with no good reason. Not to make any compromises. Just going with the flow. Just to honor yourself.

I wish I could help you but as you see for me it was no happy ending. You are somewhat smarter or perhaps luckier because you found a way to get money without having job. I didn't so now I work for the government and ask myself everyday the big question - what if ...

Even though I can't help you I wish you good luck on search for someone who can understand you and feel the same as you do.
 
cheezemurda49 said:
I believe in The Hunt. You know... Hunting. because hunting is honest. I'm here to kill and eat you. Pretty straight forward.


Maybe it is possible to start fishing/ get a job as a fisherman. That is a honest way to provide food for self and others.
 
You say to be homeless. I believe you said to have been monitoring this forum for years. I've been homeless too. This is why I am confused. How do you power your computer? How do get onto the internet? Methinks you may need to display some honesty.
I was with him in "The Tunnel" from Friday, October 3 to Monday, October 6.
At the end of the Home Depot nearby, on the wall where the priority parking is, is a single outlet that no one cares is used between 6pm and 4am; that's where we went to charge our phones and use the WiFi through the wall.
 
cheezemurda49 said:
But yesterday my friend asked me to roll him a cigarette. Now, I have no problems with rolling my friends cigarette. Except, I sensed some laziness, and something else unidentified, and it seemed his hands worked fine, so I said, no. And he said, what if I gave you the deed to my house? I said.. Umm. no. Even MORE NO than if I just rolled it the first time.

And he said.. Cuz I can't buy you?

And that's it! The selling of my soul.

Where can I work and NOT sell my soul????? Its very easy to sell your soul, you can do it accidently! I have to be VERY VIGILANT.

I think you don't understand how things work. It is very simple really. You get from life what you give to it. Above, you are refusing to roll a friend a cigarette because you are afraid you are going to lose your soul. Did this friend ever do anything for you? Have he listened to you and kept you company? Did you ever have fun together? The point being, at some point this friend DID DO something for you. What's wrong with you doing something for him? One day he might do something for you because you are lazy to do it that day.

That's how things work, give and take, take and give.

Regarding your views on slavery and jobs and all that: you can choose whether to be a slave or whether you want to be of service. It's not what you do most of the time, but how you do it. If you don't want to cut trees down, or put people in jail, there are millions of other ways you can have a job and be of service. So why do you choose these extreme examples? Is it because you just want to take and are not willing to give?

And take you do, all the time: if you are not going around naked, somebody made the clothes you are wearing. Somebody build the bench you sit on, somebody made the pavement you sit/walk/sleep on. Just a tiny example of how you take things for granted. You are still alive and roaming, that means you are using stuff that came from other people's efforts, no?

I had many many jobs in my life, and many times it was difficult. I used to work at a university with many pathologicals as my bosses who had insane demands. I did my job the best to my ability, and I was able to help many students along the way. I felt that I was being of service than a slave. And with the money the job paid me I was able to buy the books recommended here, follow a good diet, travel and have experiences that expanded my awareness and gave me skills, because these are the things that will one day FREE me from the TRUE slavery - that inside my own mind. My soul is not in danger if I have to do something because a lazy person won't do it. The way I understand it, this is actually what will help GROW my soul.

So like I said, this cosmos, this reality we live in, it's give and take, take and give. And it is fine to not want to participate in this give and take. But the way I see it, it is impossible to be alive and not have taken from someone else, so the choice becomes only not to give. And to me it sounds parasitic to take and choose not to give.

Is it clear what I am trying to say?
 
I completely agree with Alana. Quite frankly, cheezemurda49, what comes across in your posts is a whole lot of self importance. It seems you don't want to work at anything you feel is beneath you and refuse to compromise.

Working for money isn't "selling your soul," it's selling your time and energy to convert it into currency which can then be used in the ways you wish. That's how the system works on planet earth and refusing to participate gets you absolutely nothing. The General Law keeps us in our place, feeding the current system. You can't just escape this Law because you don't like it or think you're above it. You'll continue to get knocked down over and over again as long as you refuse to compromise and become a good obyvatel. Until you show the Universe you're able to take care of yourself within the system as it exists, you'll never show it that you're ready to move on.

What you've been doing is clearly not working for you at this point. Maybe it's time to try a new approach.

FWIW.
 
I do not agree neither with Alana nor with dugdeep.

Your posts show that you can not understand what cheezemurda49 is saying.
Why? Because you are excusing to have a job to become free while he already IS free.
He is free because he realizes that there is nothing that he 'has to do' or 'must do'. That is what you realize only then when you are completely free. I do not think that he is crazy, which does not mean that he isn't ;)
but his observation of the world is more clear.

Your view is that you have to do this or have to do that in order to become free which just shows that your intent is for the self i.e. STS. His intent is to serve as best as he can. Point.

Besides, supporting a person in his lazyness is not a service towards him. It is just weakness that is so common nowadays because people simply can't say 'no' because 'it is my friend and I do not want him to not like me so I will do whatever he want me to do and pretend that I am doing it for greater good'.
As I said no one is more and no one is less and if he would roll the cigarette for this lazy drunkard then he would acknowledge that he is less. Which is not true.

The post of dugdeep is more general and has some truth to it. But this is true in general that if you are trying to free yourself from the system it will try to take you down. This is exactly what happened to me.
So no cheezemurda49, it is not time to try new approach but time to work on yourself even harder. To ponder even harder about the topics you brought up here. And to become even more pure.
 
dugdeep said:
I completely agree with Alana. Quite frankly, cheezemurda49, what comes across in your posts is a whole lot of self importance. It seems you don't want to work at anything you feel is beneath you and refuse to compromise.

Working for money isn't "selling your soul," it's selling your time and energy to convert it into currency which can then be used in the ways you wish. That's how the system works on planet earth and refusing to participate gets you absolutely nothing. The General Law keeps us in our place, feeding the current system. You can't just escape this Law because you don't like it or think you're above it. You'll continue to get knocked down over and over again as long as you refuse to compromise and become a good obyvatel. Until you show the Universe you're able to take care of yourself within the system as it exists, you'll never show it that you're ready to move on.

What you've been doing is clearly not working for you at this point. Maybe it's time to try a new approach.

FWIW.

Thats it....in a nutshell dugdeep.

We have choices about how we earn our money or what we exchange our time, energy and skills for.

I have chosen to work in the heart of the matrix, in central London for a high profile man in the global business world.

I am the Carer for his 90 year old Mother. Through this work I have learnt SO much about myself while being of service to her in her last years on this planet. Some might see this as a 'slave job' but I dont view it as that. Yes it is all about ensuring her needs are met but I have learnt to set professional and personal boundaries. I also had to address my need to constantly please people and find that the underlying issue was that I was raised in a narcissistic family system. The list goes on.

So you see....all is not what it seems.

It is all about attitude and placing yourself in a situation to learn what you need to learn when you are ready and through this I have learnt humility and self discipline. The rewards are there and it is difficult at times.

As the C'S say "There is no free lunch"
 
I'm confused... Cheezemurda started this thread with this opening

cheezemurda said:
Networking: is there anyone on the big island of Hawaii? To date I have met exactly one person (in 10yrs) who even knew of SOTT, etc. And he was just traveling through...

However, Skyalmian said this

skyalmian said:
I was with him in "The Tunnel" from Friday, October 3 to Monday, October 6.
At the end of the Home Depot nearby, on the wall where the priority parking is, is a single outlet that no one cares is used between 6pm and 4am; that's where we went to charge our phones and use the WiFi through the wall.

Am I missing something?

Assuming he is the one person, how did you 2 meet?
 
tohuwabohu said:
I do not agree neither with Alana nor with dugdeep.

I am glad you read my post, because it was especially because I saw your reply here in this thread that I thought I should say something, for both of you.

It seems to me that you project whatever issues you have with your work on cheezemurda. If that's the case, it is not helping either of you. Different people, different living conditions, different situations.

I don't know how much of the recommended reading you have done so far. Did you read In Search of the Miraculous or any Gurdjieff related books? I recommend them. I also recommend the thread linked to above for both you and cheezemurda.

I think the world as is, the institutions, the rules the customs, the arts, most everything, are unhealthy at best, psychopathic at worst. But still, for a soul wishing to learn and experience and grow, it is a good training ground. After all, we might have chosen to be here for exactly those reasons :)
 
tohuwabohu said:
I do not agree neither with Alana nor with dugdeep.

Your posts show that you can not understand what cheezemurda49 is saying.
Why? Because you are excusing to have a job to become free while he already IS free.

You mistakenly equate unemployment and homelessness with freedom. They are not the same. The concepts of 'freedom' and 'slavery' have little to do with external circumstances, and are more likely a result of one's state of BEING. A certain type of person can be more free in a prison cell, while most slaves go about their lives unhindered. To be truly free, one must first know the innermost workings of their machine, become aware of the programming and false belief systems instilled in childhood, and work hard to overcome them.

Our limited 3D existence is the ideal school for learning the lessons we need in order to become free. That is why we are all presently at this 'level'. Working hard, being a good obyvatel, becoming a master of the mundane, is good preparation. If one cannot even succeed at the rudimentary tasks in life, how can one be ready for a deeper spiritual existence?

Having a job, a home, paying the bills, being responsible, are all necessary steps. One cannot simply skip over our 3D lessons because we find it degrading or uncomfortable.

tohuwabohu said:
He is free because he realizes that there is nothing that he 'has to do' or 'must do'.

Really? Is there nothing cheezemurda49 'has to do' or 'must do', like eat, drink, clothe himself and find shelter?

And just because he refuses steady employment, is he truly free? Is he free to donate $100,000 to charity? Is he free to buy a first class ticket to travel around the world? Is he even free to hang a picture on the wall in the home he doesn't have?

tohuwabohu said:
That is what you realize only then when you are completely free. I do not think that he is crazy, which does not mean that he isn't ;)
but his observation of the world is more clear.

Well, his mostly nonsensical rantings do come across as quite manic to me. I suspect that his past history of drug abuse may have affected his ability to communicate clearly.

tohuwabohu said:
Your view is that you have to do this or have to do that in order to become free which just shows that your intent is for the self i.e. STS. His intent is to serve as best as he can. Point.

Not true. Working hard, being a good obyvatel, mastering the lessons of 3D life, gives one the means, education and opportunity to give back to those who work diligently to bring this information to the world, and thus is an excellent way to serve others.

tohuwabohu said:
The post of dugdeep is more general and has some truth to it. But this is true in general that if you are trying to free yourself from the system it will try to take you down. This is exactly what happened to me.
So no cheezemurda49, it is not time to try new approach but time to work on yourself even harder. To ponder even harder about the topics you brought up here. And to become even more pure.

The 'system' is broken, that is undeniable. And yes, we are all slaves within it to a greater or lesser degree. However, true freedom does not come from opting out, and feeling so spiritual as to be above it all, but from learning everything there is to know about it and about ourselves, to engage with it fully, then once understood, one has the chance to become free.
 
I wasn't gonna post today, but I would like to say, Yes, Sky is the one person in ten years that even knew of SOTT, etc. and I met him cuz he was here on Hawaii, and was flying to Seattle, only to find all flights were down for the night, and he was just gonna sleep at the airport, but security wouldn't let him(its a pretty small airport), so he ended up at the gas station next to my camp "The Tunnel", which I have been living in the past five years with an open-door policy, if you need a place to go, or have "nowhere else to go", and an absolute tolerance policy, basically a homeless shelter for those who cannot, for whatever reason, stay at THE homeless shelter.

And that's where my friend who also lives with me, found Sky, and brought him by.

Concerning Self-importance.. I understand semantics are involved here, try not to " shut down". I like how one person said self-value.. But personally I value the word Importance, because some things are important, and if the self is not important, why even communicate? Why not just eat everything you see, including your fingers.. Maybe because you value your fingers, because they are important to you.

Also, doesnt STS preach selfLESSness? Money is money. Work is work. Any ol' job will do.. Think of the greater good! Starbucks has this sign, BE APART OF SOMETHING BIGGER THAN YOURSELF. which is rather, some good comedy, in my opinion.

Because... If I am just a drop in the ocean I can feel three ways about it. I can say Woe Is Me, I Am Worthless. OR I can say, I am THE ocean! ..but neither of these is spot on. The truth is, I am but a drop, but worthless I am not, for everyone else is also but a drop, but without ALL the drops, there would be no ocean. Thus I value my self within the whole, and understand it is not Me.. Or They.. But what happens between US, that is ultimately important.

thus, I believe it is important to value the self as important, knowing that the whole is contained in the part, how can you be apart of something BIGGER than yourself? The way I see it, you can't. If the C's say WHERE IS THE LIMIT TO YOUR MIND? than if THERE IS NO LIMIT, than you and everyone else are limitless.. How can there be anything bigger, BIGGER than the infinity that is you?

Once again, honoring everyone's place within infinity. I believe the issue is OVERLY Self-important. Or UNDERLY self-importance, which is that feeling, that critique of being worth less than an other, which is completely false, since we are ALL EQUALLY IMPORTANT. but if the TIRE says to the MUFFLER I don't need you, I got this handled... Things begin to get muddy. Now maaaaybe you don't neeeeed a muffler, but that makes it no less important, it provides a service or two, better compression for example, which translates to better gas mileage, etc. Now if the MUFFLER says to the TIRE I don't need you, than this car is going nowhere. Does this make the tires MORE important than the muffler? Yes and no. Mostly yes, but.. Degrees and levels.. Things get debated, argued.. But this is not necessary. The muffler should not be concerned with the level of importance of the tires, and vice versa. Everything works together, it is only(generally) important to be concerned with one's own level of importance, for how can you judge another's worth? Let another express their worth, and appreciate their worth, for what its worth. Thus you come to KNOW the TRUE VALUE of a thing. And henceforth, be able to APPRECIATE that value.

Concerning Compromise. This involves a little wordplay. Compromise, to promise together. Promise, PRO- Good/Beneficial. MISE, as in miser, to pinch pennies, to be very exact, precise. (It doesn't have to have a negative tone)
Therefore to Compromise is to Formulate a very precise plan together for our mutual benefit. That's how I see, in my world. I'm not sure how its come to be known as some kind a lose/lose situation where in the end we both plan to Win. Sacrifice may be involved in a compromise, but in no way is this the essense of a compromise.

So to address Tracy Anne, I am very willing to compromise, but not CONpromise.

And as a note, what I've been doing has been working for me, and sometimes working well, but not VERY well.. This is what I mean by, maybe I'm TOO ambitious. Its a war zone after all, I can't expect it to be TOO good, but I always strive.

To towahubohu, I see that you see.

Concerning the cigarette, amongst other things. It comes down to how willing you are to being manipulated, amongst other things. And to note, later on my friend lathered himself in DEET to repel bugs.. And I didn't want him to roll his tobacco with poisoned hands, so out of kindness, I rolled about 7 cigarettes for him, that day.

Concerning Give & Take. This is a strange philosophy. And somehow it becomes a tally. Like, oh yesterday I bought you lunch! So why can't you give me a foot massage!!!??? A lot of crying and boo-hooing. Personally I feel what happens on one day has no bearing on another day, or what I did an hour ago, means nothing right now, concerning the topic of give & take. To me, the Giving is its own Reward(taking). If it is not Rewarding to Give, it is probably more Rewarding to Not Give. If my friend wants a cigarette, I am very happy to be able to provide one, thus i am rewarded with this exchange. An hour later, do I say, he "owes" me.. The next day, do I say, he "owes" me.. ? No, because I gave it whole-heartedly. There are no strings attached to my Giving. The Lord loves a cheerful Giver. Why? Because if you give wholeheartedly, you can let go of that which you gave, and thus truly GIVE. if you give less than wholeheartedly, you create a vacuum because you extended a part of yourself but cannot let go, and this vacuum naturally pulls back, essentially creating a defecit, or DEBT, and thus you will feel you are OWED something to make up for your loss, and thus your "Giving", has now become "Taking".

If Time does not exist. Let every transaction, the giving and the taking, be simultaneous. There should be no LOSS, aka STS NEGATIVITY DEBT, there should be only BALANCE, balance your books, as they say.

(There should also be no INFLATED PROFIT, which is IMBALANCE, and another kind of debt. not to open another can of worms)

...time for a cigarette!
 
tohuwabohu said:
Your view is that you have to do this or have to do that in order to become free which just shows that your intent is for the self i.e. STS. His intent is to serve as best as he can. Point.

I disagree about Alana's comment. If anything else, you need to work to get a money, need money for a food, need food for a life. Has nothing to do with STS or STO. In order to even be in opportunity to be STO or STS you have to be alive. So I don't see connection between intention for the self when you want to keep yourself alive and STS/STO, soul, freeing yourself...

tohuwabohu said:
Besides, supporting a person in his lazyness is not a service towards him. It is just weakness that is so common nowadays because people simply can't say 'no' because 'it is my friend and I do not want him to not like me so I will do whatever he want me to do and pretend that I am doing it for greater good'.
As I said no one is more and no one is less and if he would roll the cigarette for this lazy drunkard then he would acknowledge that he is less. Which is not true.

From my experience friendship has nothing to do with feeling that one is "more" and one is "less". For me, the essence of friendship is openness and honesty. If I or my friend go beyond limits (he's lazy and try to use me), we speak about that openly. It's not like "oh, you're lazy, now I'll show you you're wrong with my behavior (not talking to you, avoidance...). Friendship for me is about be with each other openly about everything.
So I think this example has nothing to do with friendship.
 
cheezemurda49 said:
If I fix your roof, spiritually speaking, I own a part of your house now. And if I need a place to sleep, I should be able to(in a perfect world) come to your house(which is partly mine) anytime I want. Its partly mine because I put a piece of my soul in the roofing. My Time & Energy. Of course this doesn't happen, its just, here have some $$$. Done deal. But the deal has only just begun and now the "owner" of this house has a problem when I need a place to stay, and acts like he don't even know me! ...
I had a couple of builders install a bath and shower in my house, and they charged me for their time, work, and the materials. They were happy to get paid, and I was happy to have a bath and shower in my house. I don't feel like I owe them the use of my bath. The builders have been compensated according to what they and I agreed upon as fair exchange value for their work.

In a small tribal community, it might be possible to operate without money, with people working voluntarily with each other to make sure everyone has everything they need. We live in large complex societies though, where money seems to me to be useful as a means of exchange. Money has a mutually-agreed upon "exchange value". Your quote above makes me wonder what you think money is. Maybe you think money is bad, or isn't really real, i.e. it is just paper or electronic digits?

I think most people work and struggle to some degree to earn money to pay for the basic living costs of themselves and their families. I don't think they work because they enjoy being slaves, or because they are greedy and have a "love of money", or because they are stupid and haven't realized that "everything can just be free, you don't need money".

You don't seem to be receiving any kind of benefit or social security, which is something I respect. (Some people have a strong anti-work philosophy, while at the same time receiving a benefit that comes from taxes paid by workers. That seems hypocritical to me, in that they aren't really anti-work, they just think other people should work to support them.)

No doubt in our complex modern societies there are niches where people can find an existence without needing to work for money. You seem to have found such a niche, and also a way of giving back to other people through your involvement in an "alternative" homeless shelter.
 
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