John Kaminski Goes Off the Deep End

JudeA said:
There were times when I told John that he was lying. He responded that he does not lie, he exaggerates. In my opinion, this was merely a cosmetic explanation.
Well, if he is aware enough to call it "exaggeration," then he is conscious of what he is doing and cannot be excused. That suggests also that all the "emotional" content of his writing is similarly "exaggerated" and therefore, not truly representative of how he really thinks and feels. In short, just that remark indicates that he is a fraud.

JudeA said:
Thank you for your Gurdjieff quote, though I found it rather chilling. The description seems to verge on a "fugue" state.

How are we to trust anything that anyone else says?
Exactly so. That is why Stout's book is so important. As she points out, most people - those considered to be normal - regularly and frequently enter into fugue states - a lot more often than most people even suspect. Highly reccommended reading. Also, important to read her book "The Sociopath Next Door." Now THAT is chilling.

JudeA said:
Look at Rense and Jones' last interview. I believe it is still on the website. It is rather harsh on Israel, if I recall. I believe that Alex has, little by little, been stating that upon which we both agree. http:(2slash)www.rense.com/general73/erch.htm
I'll have a look. However, having studied psychological deviance for so many years, and having been victimized by serious deviants, including close friends of Rense - Weidner and Bridges - the latter a PROVEN psychopath (I have confidential emails from individuals attesting to his incarceration in a mental hospital), Jones gives all the indications of being one himself. More than that, Rense's enabliing of the psychopathic behavior of Bridges and Rense - the almost incalculable damage he facilitated against me and my family, including my innocent children, is hard to comprehend. If an individual sets themselves up as an "authority" or a "source of information", and they contribute to this kind of nefarious activity, they effectively lead a lot of people who are looking up to them astray. It rather reminds me of a little passage from Luke:

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
JudeA said:
From what I can tell, the NWO folks have metastasized. It is a multi headed beast which spans the globe. This is probably where I am most in agreement with Jones.
Have you read Controvery of Zion? If not, I think it is another must read in order to really understand what is happening today and where it is headed. It is available on the web as a pdf download here: http://www.kasjo.net/reeedcontrov.pdf

Reed is not anti-Semitic as he has been characterized by Zionists. In fact, he presents a very sympathetic view of the majority of Jews of the time who, prior to Hitler, were against the formation of the State of Israel. He cites voluminous documentary evidence. I think I can guarantee that once you have read this book, you will want to urge everyone you know to also read it. It is gripping and once you have read it, EVERYTHING finally makes sense.

Yes, it is a multi-headed beast, and the true nature of that beast is psychological deviance of various sorts, many of them genetic, and these occur in ALL groups. Certainly, Judaism has been used as a screen for deviant activity, but so has Christianity and Islam. It could even be said that all three religions were created by deviants just for the purposes they have been used for: to pit normal people against one another while the conscienceless deviants sit at the top, reaping the power and loot.

JudeA said:
As for Webster Tarpley, I wrote an essay about a speech he gave at St. Marks Church. My only criticism was that he gave Israel a "pass". This is absurd. http://www.rense.com/general69/webss.htm
The problem is: when people give important things a "pass" and then set themselves up as authorities, they end up leading a lot of other people to give those same things a "pass." Tarpley's rhetoric is quite heated for someone who is so ignorant. That's not a good sign. Again, I am reminded of the passage from Luke.
 
Dear Laura,
I am heading to Borders to see if they have The Myth of Sanity.

BTW....I have been listening to today's Alex Jones. Someone called him and asked him if he was being soft on Zionism. Alex does say that he has a problem with zionists and was talking about all the crimes that the zionists have done. He talked about how he has been very critical of Israel but there are those who want him to attack Jews and he will not. He feels that some of these people who are harrassing him are bullies. Others are jealous. He feels that many of the liars are gov't agents who do not care how many times he covers zionism. He talked aobut the group that feels Jews have an evil gene (oftehn these groups have been infiltrated by the ADL) To sum it up, Alext like the crowd that is attacking Jews. they want to blame all the world's ills on Jews. Perhaps they thing that Ivan the Terrible was Jewish. Maybe even Jeffrey Dalmer.

He feels that these Jew attackers are trying to tear down the movement.
 
JudeA said:
Dear Laura,
I am heading to Borders to see if they have The Myth of Sanity.
Do you mean Mask of Sanity perhaps?

BTW....I have been listening to today's Alex Jones. Someone called him and asked him if he was being soft on Zionism. Alex does say that he has a problem with zionists and was talking about all the crimes that the zionists have done. He talked about how he has been very critical of Israel but there are those who want him to attack Jews and he will not.
There is a difference between Jews and Zionists though.
To sum it up, Alext like the crowd that is attacking Jews. they want to blame all the world's ills on Jews. Perhaps they thing that Ivan the Terrible was Jewish. Maybe even Jeffrey Dalmer.
He feels that these Jew attackers are trying to tear down the movement.
There is a difference between Jews and Zionists though. Also, you can't tear down the truth movement by telling the truth. And it's not Jews, it's Israel/Zionists that are responsible for many "world's ills", osit.
 
SAO said:
There is a difference between Jews and Zionists though. Also, you can't tear down the truth movement by telling the truth. And it's not Jews, it's Israel/Zionists that are responsible for many "world's ills", osit.
I understand what you are saying, SAO, but I would like to clarify it a little; and if you don't agree with me, please let me know.

As we know here at the forum, it is the psychopaths that are the real problem. They are the ones who are truly running the world, causing the conflicts and wars and screwing with our minds. It just so happens that the large part of the psychopaths at this time happen to belong to the Zionist/pro Zionist group. And it has been this way for a very long time. If any of you are in doubt, please get a copy of Controvery of Zion and read it. It is a real eye opener. Not only have the Zionists been the ones running the different governments, they are the ones who are hurting the Jewish people in general. The Zionists do as much, if not more harm to their own people that do any other group. OSIT.

But is seems to me that the psychopaths seem to be flying to the Zionist banner with a frenzy.

This is only my take on it at this time.
 
The point worth of noting and contemplating is that there are Jews (whether Zionists or not - I do not know) who publicly claim:

Rosenkratz said:
.... anti-Zionism is one of the worst forms of anti-Semitism.
This is the exact quote from a banned forum member, who, by the way, provided his post with a link to ADL.

Of course the above does not make sense, it is a propaganda trick, but as Goebbels has shown - if you repeat a lie many times, it sticks to your thinking, whether you want it or not. The above tactics is worth of noting and keeping in mind.
 
ScioAgapeOmnis said:
JudeA said:
Dear Laura,
I am heading to Borders to see if they have The Myth of Sanity.
Do you mean Mask of Sanity perhaps?
Both books are a must read: Mask of Sanity by Hervey Ceckley and Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout. I think now we are talking about the last one.
 
JudeA said:
BTW....I have been listening to today's Alex Jones. Someone called him and asked him if he was being soft on Zionism. Alex does say that he has a problem with zionists and was talking about all the crimes that the zionists have done.
If he had a smidgen of a conscience he would be hammering on the crimes of Israel and the Zionists every day. Any Jew in Israel with a remote facsimile of a conscience would immediately find a way to emigrate either back to where they came from or where their parents came from, and return Palestine to the Palesitinians from whom it was stolen by countries that had no right to steal it, and given to people who had no claim to it.

The Palestinians are being subjected to genocide exactly as the Jews were. It is a crime that has been going on for almost a hundred years. Daily tragedies beyond imagining.

If Alex Jones really had a conscience that is what he would concentrate on.

And second to that would be the reason that this crime is taking place under the noses of the world, all of whom are appeasing Israel and the Zionists just as Hitler was appeased while he murdered Jews.

See today's SOTT where you can read: http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/signs20061016_JustAnotherMotherMurdered.php
and
http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/signs20061016_TheFrenchConnection.php

JudeA said:
He talked about how he has been very critical of Israel but there are those who want him to attack Jews and he will not. He feels that some of these people who are harrassing him are bullies.
That's a cheap BS excuse to not take on the REAL problems. Nobody needs to "attack Jews." Speaking the truth about the criminal enterprise called Israel and its mafia, the Talmudic Zionists is the main job of any person seeking truth and justice in this world. Period.


JudeA said:
Others are jealous. He feels that many of the liars are gov't agents who do not care how many times he covers zionism.
Another crock of horse-hockey and a cheap excuse for why he isn't doing what is RIGHT.

JudeA said:
He talked aobut the group that feels Jews have an evil gene (oftehn these groups have been infiltrated by the ADL)
To say that "Jews have an evil gene" as a blanket statement is certainly incorrect. However, it does seem to be scientifically accurate to say that there is a higher percentage of schizoidia among Ashkenazim as well as other psychopathies. There are several threads here in the forum that discuss this. You might find them enlightening. Let me add that there IS an "evil gene" but it is not restricted to Jews.

JudeA said:
They want to blame all the world's ills on Jews. Perhaps they thing that Ivan the Terrible was Jewish. Maybe even Jeffrey Dalmer.
To claim that "they want blame all the worlds ills on Jews" is again setting up a straw man to "knock it down" as a means of providing a cheap excuse as to why Jones isn't taking on the real problems of the world.

No, the Jews aren't the cause of all the worlds ills, but psychological deviants are and a LOT of them are Jews and a LOT of them are Goyim. Psychological pathology is no respecter of race, creed, color, or religion. It happens at about the same percentage (with some variation due to special situations such as inbreeding due to ghettoization) in all populations.

But then, that IS what Jones does so well.

JudeA said:
He feels that these Jew attackers are trying to tear down the movement.
What movement? There IS no movement. Don't you people get it that your audience is so small that all you are doing is the equivalent of spitting in the ocean? None of you are doing anything except preaching to the choir, and most of that choir consists of psychological deviants since that is the type of individual that is attracted to sensationalistic conspiracy theories and loud, raucous, blowhards like Jones.

Now, let's get back to Kaminski. One of the things I told John - more than once - was to back off from the "Historical Revisionism," to forget about blaming ANYTHING on Jews and stick to the science: psychological pathology that occurs across the board in all populations. Is is psychopathology that is responsible for the manifestations of the three dominant monotheistic religions prevalent in the world today. These religions are the ideologies within which deviants hide themselves. It just so happens that, at the moment, Judaism is the most useful on for "fencing in and pathologizing" normal human beings, but Christian Fundamentalism runs a close second.

John didn't like that: he - or someone close to him - wanted him to continue to attack Jews. NOT just Zionists, but each and every Jew. I pointed out to him numerous times that the Jews would not be in Israel if it had not been for the "Christian Zionists" who put them there hoping to trigger armageddon so that "Jesus could come." They are strange bedfellows, indeed.

I also told John that it seems to me that the entire so-called Historical Revisionism thing was actually created by Zionists as a tool to scare more Jews to Israel. His defense of jerks like David Irving is patently ridiculous; the guy deserves to be in jail for being stupid.

I recently read an interview with Irving where he says that the "defining moment" for him was when he had penetrated the "inner circle" of the people who had been close to Hitler and he realized that they were all "well-educated, nice and decent".

Well, guess what: that's what psychopaths do: fool nice, decent, well-educated people.

The history of psychopaths having followers who worship the ground they walk on is legion.

Manipulation is the key to the psychopath's conquests. Initially, the psychopath will feign false emotions to create empathy, and many of them study the tricks that can be employed by the empathy technique. Psychopaths
are often able to incite pity from people because they seem like "lost souls" as Guggenbuhl-Craig writes. So the pity factor is one reason why victims often fall for these "poor" people.

Robert Hare cites a famous case where a psychopath was "Man of the Year" and president of the Chamber of Commerce in his small town. (Remember that John Wayne Gacy was running for Jaycee President at the very time of his first murder conviction!) The man in question had claimed to have a Ph.D. from Berkeley. He ran for a position on the school board which he then planned to parlay into a position on the county commission which paid more.

At some point, a local reporter suddenly had the idea to check up on the guy - to see if his credentials were real. What the reporter found out was that the only thing that was true about this up and coming politician's "faked
bio" was the place and date of birth. Everything else was fictitious. Not only was the man a complete impostor, he had a long history of antisocial behavior, fraud, impersonation, and imprisonment. His only contact with a
university was a series of extension courses by mail that he took while in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary. What is even more amazing is the fact that before he was a con-man, he was a "con-boy." For two decades he had dodged his way across America one step ahead of those he had hoodwinked. Along the way he had married three women and had four children, and he didn't even know what had happened to them. And now, he was on a roll! But darn that pesky reporter!

When he was exposed, he was completely unconcerned. "These trusting people will stand behind me. A good liar is a good judge of people," he said. Amazingly, he was right. Far from being outraged at the fact that they had
all been completely deceived and lied to from top to bottom, the local community he had conned so completely to accrue benefits and honors to himself that he had not earned, rushed to his support!

I kid you not! And it wasn't just "token support." The local Republican party chairman wrote about him: "I assess his genuineness, integrity, and devotion to duty to rank right alongside of President Abraham Lincoln." As
Hare dryly notes, this dimwit was easily swayed by words, and was blind to deeds.

And that seems to have been the case with the "intellectuals" associated with Hitler.

So, of course, having decided that Hitler had to be a nice guy because all these nice, well-educated people said he was, everything Irving has done since then was predicated on his need to cleanse Hitler of any sins.

And Hitler was an evil bastard and murdered millions upon millions of decent human beings, a large proportion of them being Jews.

And guess who backed Hitler?

Zionists.

Why?

Something you mentioned earlier: no decent, self-respecting Jew wanted to go to Israel, and what's more, they had no reason to. Persecutions of Jews were basically a thing of the past and without persecution the "Zionist Dream" was dead in the water. Further, without Israel to trigger a World Revolution, after which the psychopaths masquerading as Jews (though they are not) intend to rule the world (the REAL New World Order), all their plans would fail. So Hitler had to be put into power because they knew he would do the job.

And David Irving and his ilk are too stupid to see any of it for what it really was. A small, murdering gang that took over Judaism (way back) and the majority of Jews have suffered for it ever since. So, to continue to persecute Jews for the sins of their Talmudic pathocracy is equivalent to penalizing all Americans for the sins of George Bush.

Unfortunately, that is what is going to happen when the rest of the world has enough of him and his Zio-con gang.

If they wake up in time, that is. I have my doubts about it because no one was able to wake the Germans up about Hitler even though herculean efforts were made by men better than Kaminski ever dreamed of being.

But that's another subject.
 
ark said:
Rosenkratz wrote:
.... anti-Zionism is one of the worst forms of anti-Semitism.
In my mind, by doing this, the person is stating that by being anti-Zionism, you are against all of the Jews (which are not all of the semites. The Arabs are actually more semite that today's Jew are, but that's not the point here) which is just not the case, as far as I an concerned. As Ark said, this is just propaganda and the more they say it the more the populace will start thinking that that is the truth.

So, ahem, anti-Zionism is NOT anti-semitism, anti-Zionism is NOT anti-semitism, anti-Zionism is NOT anti-semitism.......
 
Laura had written

If you have never read Martha Stout's book "The Myth of Sanity," you might want to do so right away>>

I am glad that you could read my post. I have never seen so many typos in such a small space. I was up until 2:30 writing an essay about the play My Name Is Rachel Corrie and I am still wiped out.

There is a big difference between zionists and Jews and I only wish it would become clear to everyone.
 
Im sorry Judea
All your posts suggest to me that you are a fence sitter.I have seen you asked direct questions and you come back with sweet little angelic answers and not much more. I was just wondering if you actually have a real opinion on Rense and Alex jones,other than to defend those seemingly (to you) misunderstood cute boys.
 
I refuse to attack Jeff and Alex. If this is my sin......then I plead guilty.

To thine own self be true.

As for Jeff and Alex, I have no reason to attack either one of them.
 
JudeA said:
As for Jeff and Alex, I have no reason to attack either one of them.
The history of psychopaths having followers who worship the ground they walk on is legion.

Manipulation is the key to the psychopath's conquests. Initially, the psychopath will feign false emotions to create empathy, and many of them study the tricks that can be employed by the empathy technique. Psychopaths are often able to incite pity from people because they seem like "lost souls" as Guggenbuhl-Craig writes. So the pity factor is one reason why victims often fall for these "poor" people.

Robert Hare cites a famous case where a psychopath was "Man of the Year" and president of the Chamber of Commerce in his small town. (Remember that John Wayne Gacy was running for Jaycee President at the very time of his first murder conviction!) The man in question had claimed to have a Ph.D. from Berkeley. He ran for a position on the school board which he then planned to parlay into a position on the county commission which paid more.

At some point, a local reporter suddenly had the idea to check up on the guy - to see if his credentials were real. What the reporter found out was that the only thing that was true about this up and coming politician's "faked bio" was the place and date of birth. Everything else was fictitious. Not only was the man a complete impostor, he had a long history of antisocial behavior, fraud, impersonation, and imprisonment. His only contact with a university was a series of extension courses by mail that he took while in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary. What is even more amazing is the fact that before he was a con-man, he was a "con-boy." For two decades he had dodged his way across America one step ahead of those he had hoodwinked. Along the way he had married three women and had four children, and he didn't even know what had happened to them. And now, he was on a roll! But darn that pesky reporter!

When he was exposed, he was completely unconcerned. "These trusting people will stand behind me. A good liar is a good judge of people," he said. Amazingly, he was right. Far from being outraged at the fact that they had
all been completely deceived and lied to from top to bottom, the local community he had conned so completely to accrue benefits and honors to himself that he had not earned, rushed to his support!

I kid you not! And it wasn't just "token support." The local Republican party chairman wrote about him: "I assess his genuineness, integrity, and devotion to duty to rank right alongside of President Abraham Lincoln." As
Hare dryly notes, this dimwit was easily swayed by words, and was blind to deeds.

And that seems to have been the case with many people associated with Rense and Jones, not to mention Hitler.

The fact is, it is not JUST psychopaths preying on people; there are many kinds of brain damage/deviance that leads to what can be called "evil" actions, and also many people who are just psychologically damaged that are putty in the hands of the brain deviated and psychopathic types. So, even if you start with a small percentage of the population that is genetically deviant, the infection can spread quite widely across many strata of society, due to psychological weaknesses such as those exhibited by such as Kaminski, and perhaps even you, Judy.

Among the most susceptible are the so-called "upper classes." Generally, working people and lower middle class people are more psychologically healthy because they have had to learn to deal with "real life" and learn to
understand others - including deviants in postions of power - to survive. Farmers, for example. They may not have the technical language to explain things, but there are many sayings that express these truths such as : "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel" or "lay down with dogs, get up with fleas," and "birds of a feather flock together" and so on.

One major thing to remember is that most of the alt media and 9/11 "truth" folks have been, from the beginning, OPS, put in place for just this result: that the IMPORTANT things do not get addressed and such nonsense as "defending Ernst Zundel and David Irving" get a lot of play.

Allow me to quote an earlier post in this thread and I hope you can read between the lines here. The day will come when you will HAVE to choose, of that you can be sure. And it is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end:

Laura said:
Well, as we have observed elsewhere on the forum, there are many elements at play here.

As I mentioned in my last blogpost, I was reading Sebastian Haffner's book "Defying Hitler". (Highly reccommended) I quoted a bit about his observations of how the Nazis took over in the blog, and I think that most people who can "see the cracks in our reality" are able to notice all the things that Haffner noticed, and even to feel many of the things he was feeling about them.

Ark and I were talking about Haffner's experiences the other day and I was telling him how Haffner had described how people in his social group just "went off the deep end," some of them supporting Hitler and turning Fascist, many of them either just idly observing or actively participating in the evil acts promoted by the Nazi regime, and how close a parallel it was to what we see today, including the passage of the legislation that allows torture, and how people just seem to be going right along and how astonishing a thing it is to observe.

Well, Ark pointed out that it is in such times as these that differences between people's deep natures are more sharply brought into focus and in less stressful or less dramatic times, these differences are not so apparent. So then he wondered if there was anyway to tell the difference, i.e. to know what is deep inside a person, when the times are more or less peaceful?

I said that there was a passage where Haffner had described a group of his friends, and how this group was broken apart by the sharpening of these differences brought on by the stresses of the Nazi regime. What is so interesting about this passage is that Haffner takes some trouble to describe the natures and relationships of this group of six young men BEFORE the Nazi takeover, and then to describe how that takeover, how that philosophy, affected each of them. I will quote it here, since it is not very long and is well worth reading for seeing an example of what we are discussing.

Sebastian Haffner said:
My attempt to seclude myself in a small, secure, private domain failed very quickly. The reason was that there was no such domain. Very soon the wind whistled into my private life from all sides and blew it apart. By the autumn there was nothing left of what I had considered my 'circle of friends'.

For instance, there was a small 'working group' of six young intellectuals, all of them Referendars approaching the Assessor examinations, all from the same social class. I was one of them. We prepared for the exams together, and that was the outward reason the group had been formed. But it had long since become something more than that and formed a small, intimate debating club.

We had very different political opinions, but would not have dreamed of hating each other for them. Indeed we were all on very good terms. The opinions were not diametrically opposed, rather - in a manner typical of the range of views held by young intellectual Germans in 1932 - they formed a circle. The extreme ends of the arc almost met.

The most 'left-wing' member was Hessel, a doctor's son with communist sympathies; the most 'right-wing' was Holz, an officer's son who held military, nationalistic views. Yet they often made a common front against the rest of us. They both came from the 'youth movement' and both thought in terms of leagues. They were both anti-bourgeois and anti-individualistic. Both had an ideal of 'community' and 'community spirit'. For both, jazz music, fashion magazines, the Kurfurstendamm, in other words the world of glamour and 'easy come, easy go', were a red rag. Both had a secret liking for terror, in a more humanistic garb for the one, more nationalistic for the other. As similar views make for similar faces, they both had a certain stiff, thin-lipped, humourless expression and, incidentally, the greatest respect for each other. Courtesy was anyway a matter of course between the members of the group.

Two other opponents who understood each other well - and often supported each other against their own confederates - were Brock and I. We were more difficult to locate on the political scale than Hessel and Holz. Brock's opinions were revolutionary and extremely nationalistic, mine rather conservative and extremely individualistic. From the ideas of the Right and the Left we had each picked the exact opposite. Yet there was something that united us: at heart we were both aesthetes, and we both worshipped unpolitical gods. Brock's god was adventure, collective adventure à la 1914-18 or 1923; my god was the god of Goethe and Mozart. Forgive me if I do not name him for the moment. So it was inevitable that we were opponents on every topic, but often opponents who gave each other a wink. We could also drink well together. Hessel was a teetotaller and opposed to alcohol on principle. Holz drank in such desperate moderation that it was a shame.

Then there were two natural mediators: Hirsch, the son of a Jewish university professor, and Von Hagen, the son of a very high civil servant. Von Hagen was the only one of us who belonged to a political organisation. He was a member of the Deutsche Demokratische Partei (German Democratic Party) and Also of the Reichsbanner. That did not prevent him from mediating. On the contrary, it predestined him for it. He tried to reconcile all opinions and had understanding for every point of view. Further, he was the embodiment of a good upbringing, tact personified and impeccable manners. It was impossible for a discussion to degenerate into altercation if he was present.

Hirsch was his second. His speciality was gentle scepticism and tentative anti-Semitism. Yes, he had a weakness for anti-Semites and always tried to give them a chance; I remember a discussion between us in which he seriously took the anti-Semitic part, and I to redress the balance took the anti-Teutonic part. Such was the chivalry of our debates. Besides, Hirsch and Von Hagen did their very best to bring an occasional tolerant smile to Holz's and Hessel's lips, and to induce Brock and me to make a serious 'avowal' now and then. They did their utmost to prevent Holz and me, or Hessel and Brock, destroying each other's holy of holies (that was only thinkable in these two combinations).

It was a nice group of hopeful young men; if you had seen them in 1932 sitting round a table, smoking and eagerly debating with each other, you could hardly have thought that its members would, within a year, figuratively speaking, be standing on opposing barricades ready to shoot each other. To cut a long story short, today Hirsch, Hessel and I are emigrants, Brock and Holz are high Nazi officials, and von Hagen is a lawyer in Berlin. He is a member of the National Socialist Association of Lawyers and of the National Socialist Drivers' Reserve, and possibly (with regret, but it is necessary) of the Party itself. You can see that he is still faithful to his role of mediator.

From the beginning of March 1933 the atmosphere in our group started to become poisonous. It was no longer as easy as before to hold courteous academic discussions about the Nazis. There was an embarrassing, tense meeting at Hirsch's home shortly before the 1st of April.

[Laura's note: The first of April was the day the Nazi government had designated that the country should all boycott Jewish businesses. Keep in mind that this was in 1933, a clear, early, example of Hitler's attitude.]

Brock made no secret of the fact that he greeted the coming events [the boycotting of all Jewish businesses] with a pleasantly warm feeling of amusement and he relished the superiority with which he could state that 'there is naturally a certain nervousness among my Jewish friends.'

In his view, expressed in the same mode, the organisation seemed to be pretty dreadful, but it was interesting to see how such a mass experiment would turn out. In any case it opened up the most exciting prospects.

Thus spoke Brock, and it was difficult to find anything for which he did not have an answer, given with the same brazen smile. Holz responded thoughtfully that there might well be regrettable incidents in such a summary and improvisatory process, but that anyway the Jews ... and so on.

Our host, Hirsch, finding himself thus relieved of the necessity of taking sides with the anti-Semites, sat silently by, biting his lips. Von Hagen pointed out tactfully that on the - other hand the Jews ... and so on. It was a beautiful discussion about the Jews, and it dragged on.

Hirsch continued to say nothing and occasionally passed round the cigarettes. Hessel tried to attack racism with scientific arguments. Holz defended it with scientific counter-arguments. It was all very pedantic and very sober. 'All right, Hessel,' he said, more or less, taking a slow puff on his cigarette, exhaling and watching the smoke coil upward, 'in a humane state, such as you are tacitly assuming, all these problems may not exist. But you have to admit that when a new form of state is being set up, as is the case at the moment, racial homogeneity ...

I began to feel nauseated, and decided to say something tactless.

'It seems to me,' I said, 'that [v]the question here is not how a national state should be founded, but quite simply, the personal stance of each one of us.[/v] Isn't that so? Apart from that, there is nothing over which we have any power or influence. What I find interesting in your attitude, Mr Holz, is how you reconcile your opinions with your current status as a guest of this house.'

At that Hirsch cut me short and emphasised that he had never made his invitation dependent on any particular opinion, etc.

'Of course,' I replied, quite angry now, even with him, 'and it is not your stance that I am criticising, but that of Mr Holz. I would like to know what it feels like to be someone who accepts the invitation of a person whom he intends in principle to do away with, along with all his kind.'

'Who mentioned doing away with?' cried Holz, and every- body started to protest, except Brock who said that he personally saw no contradiction here. 'You may be aware,' he said, 'that in wartime officers are frequently guests in houses that they are going to blow up the next morning.'

Holz, on the other hand, soberly proved to me that one could not speak of 'doing away with', when Jewish shops were being boycotted in an orderly and disciplined manner'.

'Why is it not doing away with them?' I cried, outraged. 'If you systematically ruin somebody, and take any possibility of earning a living from them, they must surely finally starve. Is that not so? I call it doing away with someone when you deliberately allow them to starve, don't you?'

'Calm down,' said Holz, 'nobody starves in Germany. If a Jewish shopkeeper is really ruined, they will get social security payments.'

The terrible thing was that he said that quite seriously, without the slightest sneer. We parted in a hostile mood.

In the course of April, just before the lists were closed, Brock and Holz became members of the Nazi Party. It would be wrong to say they were jumping on a bandwagon. Both had undoubtedly shared some opinions with the Nazis all along. Up to now the Party had not been strong enough to persuade them to join. The little extra was supplied by the recruiting power of victory.

It became difficult to hold the group together. Von Hagen and Hirsch were kept very busy. Still, it managed to survive for another five or six weeks. Then, at the end of May, there was a meeting at which it broke apart.

It happened just after the mass murders in Copenick. Brock and Holz came to our meeting like murderers fresh from the deed. Not that they had taken part in the slaughter themselves, but it was obviously the topic of the day in their new circles. They had clearly convinced themselves that they were in some way accomplices. Into our civilised, middle-class atmosphere of cigarettes and coffee-cups the two of them brought a strange, blood-red cloud of sweaty death.

They started to speak of the matter immediately. It was from their graphic descriptions that we found out what had actually happened. The press had only contained hints and intimations.

'Fantastic, what happened in Copenick yesterday, eh?' began Brock, and that was the tone of his narrative. He went into detail, explained how the women and children had been sent into a neighbouring room before the men were shot point- blank with a revolver, bludgeoned with a truncheon, or stabbed with an SA dagger. Surprisingly, most of them had put up no resistance, and made sorry figures in their nightshirts. The bodies had been tipped into the river and many were still being washed ashore in the area today. His whole narrative was- delivered with that brazen smile on his face which had recently become a stereotypical feature. He made no attempt to defend the actions, and obviously did not see much need to. He regarded them primarily as sensational.

We found it all dreadful and shook our heads, which seemed to give him some satisfaction.

'And you see no difficulty with your new Party membership because of these things?' I remarked at last.

Immediately he became defensive and his face took on a bold Mussolini expression. 'No, not at all,' he declared. 'Do you feel pity for these people? The man who shot first the day before yesterday knew that it would cost him his life, of course. It would have been bad form not to hang him. Incidentally he has my respect. As for the others - shame on them. Why didn't they put up a fight? They were all long-time Social Democrats and members of the Eiserne Front. Why should they be lying in their beds in their nightshirts? They should have defended themselves and died decently. But they're a limp lot. I have no sympathy for them.'

'I don't know,' I said slowly, 'whether I feel much pity for them, but what I do feel is an indescribable sense of disgust at people who go around heavily armed and slaughter defenceless victims.'

'They should have defended themselves,' said Brock stubbornly. 'Then they wouldn't have been defenceless. That is a disgusting Marxist trick, being defenceless, when it gets serious.'

At this point Holz intervened. 'I consider the whole thing a regrettable revolutionary excess,' he said, 'and between you and me, I expect the responsible officer to be disciplined. But I also think that it should not be overlooked that it was a Social Democrat who shot first. It is understandable, and in a certain sense even justified, that under these circumstances the SA takes, er, very energetic counter-measures.'

It was curious. I could just about stand Brock, but Holz had become a red rag to me. I could not help myself. I felt compelled to insult him.

'It is most interesting for me to hear your new theory of justification,' I said. 'If I am not mistaken, you did once study law?'

He gave me a steely look and elaborately picked up the gauntlet. 'Yes, I have studied law,' he said slowly, 'and I remember that I heard something about state self-defence there. Perhaps you missed that lecture.'

'State self-defence,' I said, 'interesting. You consider that the state is under attack because a few hundred Social Democrat citizens put on nightshirts and go to bed?'

'Of course not,' he said. 'You keep forgetting it was a Social Democrat who first shot two SA men -'

' who had broken into his home.' [I said.]

'Who had entered his abode in the course of their official duty.' [Holz]

'And that allows the state the justification of self-defence against any other citizens? Against me and you?'

'Not against me,' he said, 'but perhaps against you.' He was now looking at me with really steely eyes and I had a funny feeling in the back of my knees.

'You,' he said, 'are always niggling and wilfully ignoring the monumental developments in the resurgence of the German people that are taking place today.' (I can remember the very word 'resurgence' to this day!) 'You grasp at every little excess and split legal hairs to criticise and find fault. You seem to be unaware, I fear, that today people of your ilk represent a latent danger for the state, and that the state has the right and the duty to react accordingly - at the very least when one of you goes so far as to dare to offer open resistance.'

Those were his words, soberly and slowly spoken in the style of a commentary on the Civil Code. All the while he looked at me with those steely eyes.

'If we are dealing in threats,' I said, 'then why not openly? Do you intend to denounce me to the Gestapo?'

About here Von Hagen and Hirsch began to titter, attempting to turn it all into a joke. This time, however, Holz put a spanner in the works. Quietly and deliberately' (and it was only now that I realised, with a certain unexpected satisfaction, how deeply angered he was):

'I admit that for some time I have been wondering whether that is not my duty.'

'Oh' I said. I needed a few moments to taste all the different flavours on my tongue: a little surprise, a little admiration for how far he was prepared to go; a little sourness from the word 'duty', a little satisfaction at how far I had driven him, and a new cool insight: that is the way life is now, and that is how it has changed - and a little fear. Having made a quick assessment of what he might be able to say about me, if he went through with it, I said, 'I must say that it does not speak for the seriousness of your intentions that you have been thinking about it for some time, only to tell me the result of your thoughts.'

'Don't say that,' he said quietly.

Now all the trumps had been played and to raise the stakes further we would have had to become physical. It had all taken place sitting down, while we were smoking. Anyway, the others now intervened and reproachfully tried to calm us both down.

Oddly enough, the political debate continued quietly and bitterly for several hours; but in reality the group had broken up. We made no arrangements for further meetings. Hirsch took leave of me in September, to go to Paris. I had already lost sight of Brock and Holz. I only heard snippets of gossip about their careers in later years. Hessel left for America a year later. The group had been blown apart.

By the way, for a few days I was concerned that Holz really would set the Gestapo on to me. As time passed I realised that he had obviously not done so. It was decent of him really!
Now, what strikes me about Kaminski is that his attitude toward Jews is little different from the attitude of the Bush Reich toward Muslims. It's like the two guys at the beginning of this passage who were described as "Right Wing" and "Revolutionary" who BOTH later joined the Nazi party. This reminds me of something that Lobaczewski mentioned about "opponents" of the Pathocratic regime that later become its most loyal members.

Lobaczewski said:
In a pathocracy, all leadership positions, (down to village headman and community cooperative managers, not to mention the directors of police units, and special services police personnel, and activists in the pathocratic party) must be filled by individuals with corresponding psychological deviations, which are inherited as a rule. However, such people constitute a very small percentage of the population and this makes them more valuable to the pathocrats. Their intellectual level or professional skills cannot be taken into account, since people representing superior abilities are even harder to find. After such a system has lasted several years, one hundred percent of all the cases of essential psychopathy are involved in pathocratic activity; they are considered the most loyal, even though some of them were formerly involved on the other side in some way.
Kaminski's ability to betray, and even to lie, with the greatest of ease - as I have now learned to my deep regret - suggests something about him that is highly disturbing. First of all, as my daughter pointed out, he didn't ever seem to feel the least guilt that a group of people had taken up a collection to buy him a ticket to get away from pressures that he was claiming were so unbearable that he was considering checking himself into a mental hospital. And the ease with which he lied to me (I now see) about his reasons strikes me as odd. It reminds me of the following from Lobaczewski:

The suffering and injustice they cause inspire no guilt within them, since such reactions from others are simply a result of their being different and apply only to "those other" people they perceive to be not quite conspecific.
Now, knowing a bit more about how he operates, it gives one a reason to go back over his writings to see if there were any clues from the beginning. Well, we all know that Kaminski writes "passionate" pieces full of FEELING. But in real life, we notice that he doesn't seem to have any of this real feeling for others. It's all a game to him. I am again reminded of something else that Lobaczewski wrote:

Our first contact with the psychopath is characterized by a talkative stream which flows with ease and avoids truly important matters with equal ease if they are uncomfortable for the speaker. His train of thought also avoids those abstract matters of human feelings and values whose representation is absent in the psychopathic world view unless, of course, he is being deliberately deceptive, in which case he will use many "feeling" words which careful scrutiny will reveal that he does not understand those words the same way normal people do. We then also feel we are dealing with an imitation of the thought patterns of normal people, in which something else is, in fact, "normal". From the logical point of view, the flow of thought is ostensibly correct, albeit perhaps removed from commonly accepted criteria. A more detailed formal analysis, however, evidences the use of many suggestive paralogisms.
Lastly, his very "fear" of the study of Ponerology speaks volumes. It seems to me that the only people who would be afraid of it, who would fear it as the underpinnings of a "totalitarian system," are those very individuals who would be exposed by it. As Lobaczewski writes:

This privileged class of deviants feels permanently threatened by the "others", i.e. by the majority of normal people. Neither do the pathocrats entertain any illusions about their personal fate should there be a return to the system of normal man.

A normal person deprived of privilege or high position will go about finding and performing some work which will earn him a living; but pathocrats never possessed any solid practical talent, and the time frame of their rule eliminates any residual possibilities of adapting to the demands of normal work. If the laws of normal man were to be reinstated, they and theirs could be subjected to judgment, including a moralizing interpretation of their psychological deviations; they would be threatened by a loss of freedom and life, not merely a loss of position and privilege. Since they are incapable of this kind of sacrifice, the survival of a system which is the best for them becomes a moral imperative. Such a threat must be battled by means of any and all psychological and political cunning implemented with a lack of scruples with regard to those other "inferior-quality" people that can be shocking in its depravity.
Considering the fact that all I have ever done has been offer kindness and support to Kaminski, his attack is all the more horrifying in its implications. Or so it seems to me.
You are dancing with the devil...
 
Judea wrote;
I refuse to attack Jeff and Alex. If this is my sin......then I plead guilty.

To thine own self be true.

As for Jeff and Alex, I have no reason to attack either one of them.

Hi Judea
I did not ask if you would attack them, i asked for your true opinion of them.If we take away the word attack in your last sentence the words that sprung immediately to mind where those of Martin Niemoller:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out."

And where the words of James Baldwin or similar should at this stage be in ones heart

"If we know, then we must fight for your life as though it were our own.... For if they take you in the morning, they will be coming for us that night."

"Bush was not joking when he uttered the words "You are either with us...."

To defend or not to be appalled by people who have an agenda who lead people down the wrong path purposefully so as to inflate their own ego is shameful. To quote the excuses of Jones for not tackling the real issues im afraid im not buying for i am not that naive as im sure Jones is not.

If you are a true seeker Judea then i hope the blindfold comes off soon. If you allready know and eat even crumbs from their table then.........

To thine own self been true
 
I get something from everyone. Daryl Bradford Smith has exhibited some of the most paranoid behavior I have ever read. (against me too) And yet, I have listened to his show and enjoyed his guests.

I get a lot of information from Alex Jones, Dave vonKleist, Jeff Rense and the rest of the hosts. What I cannot resonate with, I toss away.

I never agreed with Bush's "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists" I certainly do not feel that there is any point in lining up behind people. It is a microcosm of the universe. We all come with our unique points of view. We are merely particles on the wave.

As for "leading people down the wrong path" I am not much of a follower.
 
JudeA said:
I get a lot of information from Alex Jones, Dave vonKleist, Jeff Rense and the rest of the hosts. What I cannot resonate with, I toss away.
What do you mean resonate? How do you know what is truth and not? Just resonation?

There is SOME truth in almost everything, most successful manipulations are designed to include truth mixed with lies. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a manipulation, designed for control. So while some things Jones says are true, so are some things that G.W. Bush says and any other con artist, manipulator, psychopath. But that doesn't suddenly mean that any one of them deserves any recognition for those pieces of truth that they speak. The only reason they ever say anything that is true, is to lure people into their trap of lies that follow, and no other reason. They do not exist there for the purposes of disseminating truth! Only to gain trust so they can manipulate! No other reason.

Nobody is asking you to attack anybody! The point is just to SEE people as they truly are, that's all. So while you may get something from Alex Jones, it doesn't change the fact that he's a shill whose only purpose is to lead people astray. He says a lot more truths than Bush, of course, because he works on an entirely different level of people than Bush. He works on those who have seen past Bush and other "low level" hypnotists, and those who begin to question. For those, it requires a much more cunning and subtle manipulation to lead them astray, and that is where Jones and others like him come in. So while yes, Jones may say many more truths than Bush, it does not change the fact that both of them are doing the exact same things for the exact same reason, just at different levels because they target a different audience.

Recognizing that is the first step to truly beginning to wake up. Recognizing that no matter what level of understanding you are on, there exists a disinformation psychopath just for you, that will speak directly to YOUR level and will create plausible lies designed to manipulate you. And the higher your level, the more sophisticated and subtle those lies will be. So it is really the nature of the game that you must understand to have any chance to truly wake up, and that means recognizing the PLAYERS. Think about it please.
 

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