Joy and Gratitude

[Esote]

Maybe this quote from The Wave will give you further insights in your questioning about positive feeling, or so I hope :

... Natural good is not simply insufficient in amount and transient, there lurks a falsity in its very being. It keeps us from our real good and renunciation and despair of it are our first step in the direction of the truth. There are two lives, the natural and the spiritual and we must lose the one before we can participate in the other."

Actually I'm not into a questioning about positive feeling.
Rather than a questioning it is about sharing.
And I don't care about positive feelings, I'm concerned with what elevates our souls.
Elevation, awakening, that's my focus.

If we must lose the natural life, we may love it too, in order to participate in the spiritual life.
What kind of love? Simply being here, and now. Accepting the evil part, without fear.
We must die to ourselves...

Thank you Maat for your very interesting quote

 

[Maat]

Actually I'm not into a questioning about positive feeling.
Rather than a questioning it is about sharing.
And I don't care about positive feelings, I'm concerned with what elevates our souls.
Elevation, awakening, that's my focus.

Sorry for my misunderstanding due to the fact you made 2 posts quite in a row about beauty, joy and gratitude and honestly, I wonder, if your focus is awakening why you wrote those threads and not something else like, let's say, suffering ???

By the way and adding to this, you said "what elevates our souls", I think the word "growing" is less tricky also less connoted (but that could be all in my mind too)

But I'm quite new on this forum and I should have miss some things too (your others posts I mean)

It was just my own questioning :)

 

[Esote]

Sorry for my misunderstanding due to the fact you made 2 posts quite in a row about beauty, joy and gratitude and honestly, I wonder, if your focus is awakening why you wrote those threads and not something else like, let's say, suffering ???

By the way and adding to this, you said "what elevates our souls", I think the word "growing" is less tricky also less connoted (but that could be all in my mind too)

But I'm quite new on this forum and I should have miss some things too (your others posts I mean)

It was just my own questioning :)

Don't be sorry Maat, you are not really misunderstanding.
I knew it would rather be challenging to write about beauty, joy or gratitude on this forum. And what if I would have mentioned love, light or peace?! I wanted to see where it would lead.

IMHO awakening is global; focusing on the evil side may be quite detrimental; if we only see that, then it's becoming our main reality, everything is colored from this point of view. This is far from balance.

We must go through suffering to find our path and get free from our prison. It doesn't mean there's only suffering, unless we are masochist may be.
And it's a basic need, for me at least, to grow (rather than elevate?) our souls (self, mind or what you like) through the highest realms of human mind.

Ok, people try to view the world in a way that maintains a sense of well-being; sure, our conscious knowledge of ourselves is quite limited. Yes, we are human consciousness machine-like systems, imprisoned in a weird Matrix where lizzies or whoever "out there" are feeding on us etc.

Does that mean we have to focus on suffering in order to escape and ascend to a supposed 4D STO level?
As far as I can see, it rather sounds as the exact opposite to the wishful thinking from New Age folks. The other side of the same, so to speak...
This is not a balanced point of view, is it?

Wrong, right, who cares? I, you, we do! I'm sharing this because I think it's worth it, on this forum. It may add some understanding or reflexion, for me and others... My apologies for being in such a low and disharmonious tune, in regard to the mainstream symphony of the Work, if you think it's the case


Viva 2012

 

[Tigersoap]

IMHO awakening is global; focusing on the evil side may be quite detrimental; if we only see that, then it's becoming our main reality, everything is colored from this point of view. This is far from balance.

That's quite a new agey way thing to say which is certainly not the way we see things on this forum.

You always talk about "balance" as if people on this forum can't be happy or be light hearted and yet still be able or try to see things as they are, even if they're awful.
Things are always moving, changing, going and coming so I am not sure that balance is such a great way of seeing things at our level of understanding imho.

It seems you are not here to share or learn but to show us the "errors" of our ways.

 

[Eongar]

Regarding some posts published by you, Esote, I fixed that you look much feeling, as if they answer a lot of things. And that's not bad, but you have to know what feelings are "real" and what not. In Gnosis, Volume 1, Mouravieff paraphrases the Abbe Prevost:

'There are few people who know the full force of the different movements of the
heart. The vast majority of men are only sensitive to five or six passions, in the circle of
which their lives are passed and which define the boundaries of their imaginations.
Take away love and hate, pleasure and pain, hope and fear, and they will feel nothing'.

He further added:

'But persons of a nobler character can be moved in thousands of different ways. It
seems that they can receive ideas and sensations which surpass the ordinary norms of
nature.'

And a question: you said you "know" that you live in a prison, but you´ve felt in your flesh, your own thoughts and emotions? you notice of the invalidity and mechanicity of human being in his life?

 

[Laura]

IMHO awakening is global; focusing on the evil side may be quite detrimental; if we only see that, then it's becoming our main reality, everything is colored from this point of view. This is far from balance.

...
Does that mean we have to focus on suffering in order to escape and ascend to a supposed 4D STO level?

'Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02

The only way to "escape" or "ascend" is to learn the lessons of this density fully and thereby to grow. That means maintaining a constant focus on what is REAL and dealing with it according to what is within you, the way you are made. You then "gain weight" according to your alignment, and only that permits moving to the next level.

If you see it as a need to "escape" or "ascend" in order to "get outta Dodge", meanwhile, trying to stay happy in a world that is truly a vale of tears for 99.99 % of humanity, you are, effectively, trying to ignore and shut out the world.

The forum is, after all, called "Cassiopaea." If you don't agree with the perspective, you are welcome to go elsewhere. And, the sooner the better so we don't waste each other's time and energy.

 

[mkrnhr]

Hello Esote,

Things are not black or white, you need balance. You are the only one in this thread talking about focusing while everybody tries to imply balance.

All people in real life have great moments with friends and family, many have artistic activity, good and less good times. However, when you have a great family dinner, and go to the street by night, you need to know that there are also dangers down the street. That's the balance that will keep you alive. So, if one family member tells you to be careful, that's not focusing on the danger as you seem to see it, that's just what the context requires and that's how you maintain balance (and safety).

You can't focus only on the bright side of life, that's just stupid and will get you to dire straits. There is the light side, and there is the bright side, and one maintains awareness on the whole thing.

I personally do not read the forum for joy and beauty, I already has that in my real life. I need to be warned about the aspects I cannot see, thus maintaining a balance.

Life is about balance and cycles, if you maintain a linear thinking, you miss the whole thing because you are disconnected from the essence of it.

Notice this quote:

People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.

See? There is not focusing on one side rather than the other? You are the only one to see that.

 

[Esote]

It seems you are not here to share or learn but to show us the "errors" of our ways.

May be it seems, but it's not, can't you see it?

I just want to really understand the whole picture, starting of course from my own level.
It's not about showing any errors, it's about sharing with focus and balance issues.

I'm not sure, I'm in search

And a question: you said you "know" that you live in a prison, but you´ve felt in your flesh, your own thoughts and emotions? you notice of the invalidity and mechanicity of human being in his life?

I don't know what is the invalidity of a human being. I guess it's about the same as saying that reality doesn't exist, everything is an illusion...
Do you identify with this mechanical human being? That's what we are in our flesh and mind, on a superficial level. And it's part of the Work, to be able to reveal our whole being, in my understanding.

We are in a prison, and the surrounding walls are a frame from which we may learn how to get free...

All there is is lessons and learning is fun

The only way to "escape" or "ascend" is to learn the lessons of this density fully and thereby to grow. That means maintaining a constant focus on what is REAL and dealing with it according to what is within you, the way you are made. You then "gain weight" according to your alignment, and only that permits moving to the next level.

If you see it as a need to "escape" or "ascend" in order to "get outta Dodge", meanwhile, trying to stay happy in a world that is truly a vale of tears for 99.99 % of humanity, you are, effectively, trying to ignore and shut out the world.

The forum is, after all, called "Cassiopaea." If you don't agree with the perspective, you are welcome to go elsewhere. And, the sooner the better so we don't waste each other's time and energy.

Well, I don't see it as a need to escape while staying happy. I see it it as a need to grow while looking at the whole of life.

Things are not black or white, you need balance. You are the only one in this thread talking about focusing while everybody tries to imply balance.

This is not what I understood when reading some posts, sorry.

You can't focus only on the bright side of life, that's just stupid and will get you to dire straits.

I never said to focus only on the bright side of life. But I did say not to focus only on the evil side of life...

I personally do not read the forum for joy and beauty, I already has that in my real life. I need to be warned about the aspects I cannot see, thus maintaining a balance.

Ok, I actually missed that point!
My bad

 

[kenlee]

Does that mean we have to focus on suffering in order to escape and ascend to a supposed 4D STO level?
As far as I can see, it rather sounds as the exact opposite to the wishful thinking from New Age folks. The other side of the same, so to speak...
This is not a balanced point of view, is it?

It's easy to fool ourselves. Very easy. "Focus on suffering" is something you can like or dislike. Same is true about the love and light stuff with the New Agers. But it's not about like or dislike. It's about an inner struggle between 'I' and 'it' within ourselves (see Ouspensky's book 'In Search Of The Miraculous'). It's about seeing true relationships between the part and the whole, seeing reality for more of what what it is, both within ourselves and how we are related within the greater context of the world and the greater universe in which we live. Otherwise it's just dreaming. In an electronic circuit a positive and negative voltage (ground), or an anode and cathode are required, including the properly designed circuitry that's in between in order to make it possible for the current to flow and for the circuit to work so something can happen.

There's a quote that was attributed to be from Gurdjieff (I think it was taken from Kathryn Hume's book 'Undiscovered Country').

There are two struggles—inner-world struggle and outer-world struggle, but never can these two make contact, to make data for the third world. Not even God gives this possibility for contact between inner- and outer-world struggles; not even your heredity. Only one thing—you must make intentional contact between outer-world struggle and inner-world struggle; only then can you make data for the Third World of Man, sometimes called World of the Soul.

 

[Esote]

Thank you kenlee for sharing this.

An intentional contact between outer-world struggle and inner-world struggle...
It is a very strong point, one to deeply ponder with!

Anyway, I think I got the perspective here. I'll do my best not to bother you any more with irrelevant stuff to this place.
And it's undoubtedly so easy to fool ourselves. That's one strength in this Cassiopaean experiment forum, to be able to see what we can't, to understand what we don't

 

[Maat]

Actually Esote, it's all about the purpose. Since good feelings in general are no such a problem (yes they could sometimes, but just let's put that away for the moment since that's not what you tried to convey), there's no need to pass much time on it. An analogy would be : if you see a child at a crossroad, would you tell him to look at the pretty little birds in the sky or watch for the cars that could hit him ?

my 2 cents

 

[Maat]

I want just to add that if the child is still plainly alive after having crossed the road, he will have lots of moment to enjoy looking at the little birds