Kaleah LaRoche - Narcissism Expert or Another Sam Vaknin?

[Laura]

Ya'll have a look here:

_http://www.narcissismfree.com/art_focusing-on-the-narcissist.php

First two paragraphs give it away as total nonsense:

Have you ever heard the saying "what you focus on is what you create?"
Quantum Physics and the Law of Attraction as talked about in the films "The
Secret" and "What the Bleep Do We Know" talks about the power of our minds
to create our reality. This means where we focus our attention and energy is
where we see the results in our life.

If we were to apply the law of attraction to a situation such as
narcissistic abuse, it follows the same principals. If we continue to focus
on the abuse and the narcissist in our lives, we will continue to experience
that energy in our day to day reality. This is why in my support forum I try
to direct those in recovery to focus on their recovery rather than what has
happened in the past. I know this can be tricky, since it is important to
get validation from others that what you have experienced is "not normal or
healthy!" However once we come to realize that we have undergone a process
of abuse it is time to change our focus to overcoming the affects of the
abuse rather than continue to focus on the details of the abuse.

Drives me nuts when the New Agers talk about physics in such states of
ignorance!

But there's more. She doesn't even have any real credentials and she's charging money!

I have worked with many victims of narcissistic abuse over the phone to help
them understand the level of abuse they have experienced and help them to
get through the obstacles to their recovery. This means you can benefit from
Counseling no matter where you are in the world. I am even available by way
of instant chat for those who are uncomfortable on the phone or prefer not
to pay overseas long distance charges.

Some of my clients just need someone they can talk to who understands them.
Others want to do deeper work to find out what is blocking their ability to
get on with their lives.

Where ever you are at, even if you are seeing a traditional therapist, you
may benefit from getting the specialized counseling I offer.

I am a non-traditional holistic counselor and clinical hypnotherapist who
has been practicing since 1988. I am a licensed Interfaith Minister and
Spiritual Guidance Counselor.

My approach is to help my clients understand the journey they are on and the
steps that need to be taken to find their way back to the self. I use a
holistic, spiritual approach, not to be mistaken for religious. When I say
Spiritual I mean "to consider the spirit." When you have gone through a type
of "soul rape" it is important to consider the "soul" when recovering.

My goal is to help you to break free from being a victim and instead be a
victor! You achieve this goal by finding the lessons or gems in your
experience with the narcissist and take responsibility for your own path and
recovery.

Although forgiveness is an important stage of recovery it is important first
to get in touch with all your feelings, including your anger. You cannot get
to forgiveness before experiencing your anger about what happened.

If you are ready to go the next step in your recovery contact me about
getting a counseling session or a series of sessions to support you in your
journey.

Counseling Prices

I am very fair and reasonable in my pricing. An hour session is only $60.00
and for those wanting to commit to several sessions I offer four one-hour
sessions for $200.00.

Get an Email question or reading for only $19.97

You can pay below using your credit card after we have confirmed an
appointment time. Use the donation button for amounts other than the options
offered.

If you are uncomfortable using your credit card you may mail me a money
order. Contact me for instructions.

Then, check this out: _http://www.kaleahlaroche.com/

Finally, do a google search on this woman's name "Kaleah LaRoche" and see how very
busy she has been getting her web presence established.

Have a look at this:
http://breakingupwithyournarcissist.com/are_you_a_narcissist.html

Where she quotes Sam Vaknin.

This woman is just ALL OVER the place! She's like the Energizer Bunny - and
that excessive energy reminds me of ....

 

[curious_richard]

My goal is to help you to break free from being a victim and instead be a victor!

Maybe I am putting my own slant into this, but "be a victor!" sounds like extending the battle with the narcissist rather than disengaging.

Although forgiveness is an important stage of recovery it is important first to get in touch with all your feelings, including your anger. You cannot get
to forgiveness before experiencing your anger about what happened.

Why would anyone forgive a narcissist?

Or does the word "forgive" here mean something like, "Understand that the aggressor is not like you, and has a nonexistent or very limited conscience and emotional capacity. Understand that he/she is more like a wild animal. You can not reason with a wild animal, but you can try to understand its nature and protect yourself accordingly. If you were attacked by a mountain lion, would you get angry and look for revenge? Would you try to use punishment to make it behave like a civilized human? Or would it be better to just understand that it is an animal and has its own nature, a nature that you can not change?"

 

[Nienna]

I can say that her mentioning the "create our reality" thing reminds me, not only of the New Agers, but the way a psychopath's mind works where they really think that they do create their own reality.

Plus the fact that she discourages keeping ones focus on the narcissist, which to me means not to learn all about them so that you can identify others who are narcissists.

To me, the only way to heal is to not just quickly move on and to the future, but to look at your past, thoroughly so as to see just why you fall for these types of people to begin with. Just as we try to encourage people here to do. Find what programs are triggered to "make" you fall for these types of people.

My 2 cents.

 

[purplehaze]

Yes - she sounds like VAKNIN - putting her 'stuff' ALLLLL Over the net for the vulnerable to just wander into and part with their money so she can "fix" them.

Spirituality and new age stuff have their place but with no credentials its dangerous to take on victims like this.
At least call yourself a coach not a counselor and SAY you have no credentials.

But of course...

She sounds a lot like this NUT who is prey on victims "magical thinking" & blame the victim thinking:
_http://narcissismcured.com/Home.html

... as if Vaknin isn't enough of a predator!

 

[EFNXY]

Kaleah's gonna be responsible for somebody getting killed.

If she's quoting Vankin she isn't quotting enough.

She's running around advocating confrontational posturing.

a total wingnut

 

[PepperFritz]

Welcome to the forum, EFNXY,

Seeing as this is your first post on the forum, it would be helpful for you to post a brief intro about yourself in the Newbies section, telling us how you found this forum, how long you've been reading it and/or the SOTT page, whether or not you've read any of Laura's work yet, etc.

:)

 

[Buddy]

...in my support forum I try to direct those in recovery to focus on their recovery rather than what has happened in the past.

Unless I'm mistaken, she seems to see and encourage a distinct difference between 'recovery' and that which one seeks to 'recover' from, yet separating effects from their causes and dealing only with effects sets one up for perpetual counseling. ($$$)
Laws of physics do not equal 'magic powers' to solve problems while ignoring actual experience(s).

...once we come to realize that we have undergone a process of abuse it is time to change our focus to overcoming the affects of the abuse rather than continue to focus on the details of the abuse.

This sounds like a reinforcement of the cause/effect separation and an invitation to accept tranquilizing, self-calming 'solutions' instead.

You achieve this goal by finding the lessons or gems in your experience with the narcissist and take responsibility for your own path and recovery.

Without focusing on the experience, where would the 'gems' come from? Could the goal be for the 'counseling patient' to eventually discover what she did to cause the experience? At that point, perhaps then, the victim can stop enticing the narcissist.

Although forgiveness is an important stage of recovery...

Is this a hook into religious guilt and the indoctrination that ultimately ends in forgiveness of even the most heinous of criminals, perpetuating their criminalities?

I think LaRoche's 'counselees' should, at least, ask what she means by 'forgiveness'. Even when I was deeply identified with my 'religious I', I decided that forgiveness was for the victim's benefit - a way of releasing trapped internal energy. Never did I believe that forgiveness gives a perpetrator a 'stay out of jail' card...in the sense that the victimizer should never be exposed or have to face accountability/responsibility for their actions.

 

[Gimpy]

Is this a hook into religious guilt and the indoctrination that ultimately ends in forgiveness of even the most heinous of criminals, perpetuating their criminalities?

I think LaRoche's 'counselees' should, at least, ask what she means by 'forgiveness'. Even when I was deeply identified with my 'religious I', I decided that forgiveness was for the victim's benefit - a way of releasing trapped internal energy. Never did I believe that forgiveness gives a perpetrator a 'stay out of jail' card...in the sense that the victimizer should never be exposed or have to face accountability/responsibility for their actions.

I think she's going to a lot of trouble to promote her music cd's. ;D Any counselor worth her salt, and trying to establish decent trust, is NOT going to put pics of herself in white gauzy shifts on a beach.

From her words regarding 'forgiveness', it appears to be taking a tack towards "forgetting". The catch phrase "Forgive and Forget", is implied in her text, but never spelled out that way. I got the distinct impression, reading between the lines, that she wants people to buy her music and listen to advice in order to 'forget' the past and move on, disregarding whatever has happened.

Forgiveness isn't about forgetting the hard lessons, its about letting go and stepping away from damaging interactions, and to act in favor of your life's direction, or 'destiny'. In the past I've called it "voting with your feet", to leave the toxic person/situation/relationship, and do what you're going to do with your life: side stepping all the crap other people throw at you to prevent it happening.

Does that make sense? (I'm not disputing in any way what you said Buddy, I'm agreeing and adding my penny.)

People confuse forgiveness with being a door mat, being weak, and not defending oneself. Seeing Ms LaRoche's site gave me a visual of a person plugging her ears and saying "La la la la la la! Been there done that, moving on. La la la la la la!"



I just can't take her seriously.

 

[Renaissance]

Forgiveness isn't about forgetting the hard lessons, its about letting go and stepping away from damaging interactions, and to act in favor of your life's direction, or 'destiny'.

I think Gurdjieff covered this well through his teaching of non-identification.

 

[purplehaze]

Problem with someone like her - victims are already raw meat when they start seeking relief.
They are a sitting duck for someone like her.

 

[Gimpy]

Forgiveness isn't about forgetting the hard lessons, its about letting go and stepping away from damaging interactions, and to act in favor of your life's direction, or 'destiny'.

I think Gurdjieff covered this well through his teaching of non-identification.

I haven't read any of G's work as yet. I do have ISOTM in the queue.

Problem with someone like her - victims are already raw meat when they start seeking relief.
They are a sitting duck for someone like her.

Maybe. I think the seeker might be more attracted to her music first, then her. Music is a cheap way to self medicate.

 

[Raven]

Whoever is posting this does not know Kaleah at all! Comparing her to Sam, are you kidding me?

I am a member of her support forum and it is the best forum I have been on regarding the topic of narcissism because she does keep you focused on recovering instead of N. bashing. Her take on forgiveness is completely misunderstood on this thread. It's like you don't have a clue what you are talking about or where she is coming from.

Kaleah. like many of us have been through N abuse and lived to write about it. She encourages learning as much as you can about narcissism so that you will be able to avoid getting involved with N's in the future. I had more results in my two inexpensive sessions with Kaleah than I did six months of traditional counseling with a Doctorate level Psychologist. Kaleah does not encourage dependency but rather personal empowerment and moving forward with ones life. She doesn't claim to be a licensed mental health counselor but is a licensed minister, clinical hypnotherapist and intuitive counselor. She makes this very clear on her Website! She was also established as a musician and intuitive counselor long before she got involved in helping victims of narcissistic abuse which explains her Web presence.

What I know about Kaleah is that she doesn't pretend to be someone or something she is not! I admire her because she is real! Authentic! Quite the opposite of a narcissist!


Since someone took the liberty of cutting and pasting from Kaleah's Website, out of context, in her defense I want to give you another point of view:

This is for the person who so ignorantly said K is going to be responsible for someone getting killed. Where does such cruelty and ignorance come from? A Narcissist Perhaps???

Below are just a few comments from people who have sincerely been helped by Kaleah. These are the same people who post the same type of feedback on her forum. It is genuine!



You probably receive hundreds of these emails (and rightly so!), but I just wanted to thank you so much for producing this wonderful resource. It’s so well written, put together and extremely accurate and has helped me no end. Needless to say I directly encountered my own psychic vampire relationship, and it was a horrible experience. It was your fantastic web site that allowed me to convert the trauma I endured into a sense of understanding and then recovery.

Thank you so much for what you have done for me and I’m sure countless others. S.

I am so thankful and grateful for your guidance and support this past year. I read your e-mails, websites, group forums and listen to your webcasts. I have learned so much about myself and the "dreaded" narcissist I was involved with. Although it started out as the most painful year I have experienced, it is ending as one of the best year's of my life. Without my strength of self, courage and the knowledge I have received, I could not have moved forward. I am proud of my accomplishments and I am thriving! My narcissist no longer has any hold on me and I am a very happy and content woman. This will be the fourth season without contact with him and no dating to allow myself the time for healing and reflection. I look forward to the new year with much hope and anticipation. Thank you for being you and for all that you give to those who have been hit with the pain and suffering of narcissism. Best wishes for a fabulous and prosperous 2009! L.F.

Sunday I woke up and was looking on line for a source of help who is spiritual and energy aware and has been though narcissism personally and… I have found you!

THANK YOU…

Every word I have read I could relate to. People who haven’t experienced it in their life might think you talk foreign language but I understand every little nuances your wrote about…

You got me off the bed… It was a mystical effect on me… You did the final cutting part… after I closed your website (I spend 4 hours reading it!!!) I felt free and in a peace…

Thank you for your great work… Thank you form the core of my soul – I need you so much yesterday and God send you to meJ

Also I loved your music…

I admire you… even though I have never met you in real life… I feel like I’ve lived your life and our souls are sisters…

Thank you again for showing up in my life and bringing me back to whom I am.

S.M., Canada

I just want to let you know, Kaleah, how much I like your ebooks. I actually teach psychology and I thought I had read pretty much everything there was on this subject. I was abused by a narcissistic older brother and my mother is also somewhat narcissistic. And I've always dimly understood that they were trying to steal my soul. And even with that understanding, I've never been able to figure out quite what to do about it. There is a lot of information out there about what N is, but very little about what to DO about it. So. . .very grateful!

I also find it interesting that I've read/been reading the same source material. People of the Lie, A New Earth. I particularly like your insight that Ns are here to help in the overall elevation of universal consciousness. They're serving their role and it's not a role I would want to have to serve. So maybe there is "good" in everyone? Good stuff! B.

I just wanted you to know that I have read a LOT of books on
narcissism and have had lots of therapy. All of them helped me,
although some of the information was repetitive after awhile--but
then narcissists follow pretty predictable patterns--mine certainly
did! But it wasn't until I read your book and did the exercise where
you ask us to get a piece of paper, make two columns, and write how
you felt at the beginning of the relationship in the first column and
how you felt about yourself in the second column at the end of the
relationship, then put your own name on the top of the first and his
name on the top of the second--and that now you would see what the
relationship is all about--that how you felt about yourself at the
end of the relationship is how he feels about himself. Wow! The
veil FINALLY fell from my eyes! I understood better than I ever had
what had happened to me!

My ex-husband had been criticized constantly by parents who felt that
if you gave a child a compliment they would quit trying. So, unable
to find love and acceptance at home, he became a star athlete and
straight A student at school. I had been a pretty good student, but
not driven as my ex-husband had been to achieve THE best grades in
school, but after I married him, I felt a need to go back to grad
school--I felt that I could do nothing right at home--he constantly
criticized me, but that I was still the queen in grad school--I
worked hard and got straight As--of course he complained about this
as well--that I should only be getting Bs because As meant that I was
spending too much time away from him and our son! There was no winning!

So, anyway, thanks to your book, I finally understood what had
happened to me and I am eternally thankful and the book was well
worth every penny! D. W.

I first found your site on the net and ordered your first book, Spiritual Recovery from Narcissistic Abuse. The book has helped me tremendously to cope with what was happening to me at that time.

Then you published your second book, Narcissism: The Web of Illusion which confirmed everything I had learned from your first book. If your first book helped me to break the hold he had over me, then your second book enabled me to move on. I've read it through a few times and every time I gained more perspective about what happened and the role that I played in it. I also understand now that I had a lesson to learn from this experience and that it has made me a stronger person. I started seeing someone else and almost fell into the same trap again, at first not believing he was the same because his approach was totally different! Yet through the knowledge that you shared I had learned to spot the signs and trust my instincts enough to protect myself.

I want to thank you for the valuable insights and lessons you've provided me by writing about your own experience. You've been like a mentor to me at a time when no-one else understood or had advice about the nightmare I found myself in.

May the light always shine upon you.

"I think you are an angel God placed here for us who just don't get it and will never understand someone like that"

I am very pleased with the psychic chord cutting cd that I received recently. I am a psychotherapist in private practice and I will use this cd with my clients in session. I am now divorcing my husband of 20 years and it is helping me through the painful process. I am finding that the chord roots are fierce and sometimes break off as I am pulling them out. I will get through it this time. I tried to leave two years ago and I just could not. Any way your web site is very helpful and I have turned many of my colleagues and clients on to it recently.

Gratitude for putting yourself out there...you are genuinely helping others.

I’m writing this to you a thankful and grateful heart. Thank you so much for all the answers and information I’ve found on your websites. There is so much peace in knowing the truth. I’ve purchased your psychic cord cutting CD and it’s helped me very much. I know I’m on my way back to being the cool, confident, strong women that I am. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. T.R.

 

[Buddy]

Hi Raven. Since this is your first post to the forum, why don't you stop in and introduce yourself. You don't have to give any personal info, just let us know a bit about how you found us, what material you might have read from the Cassiopaea website; that sort of thing. Thanks! :)

 

[durabone]

Hey Buddy; Nice to see you back in there.

But this thread has left me a bit confused. A licensed LMFT I know here
in California claims that the 'official' line is that Narcissism can't be cured.
But it seems to me that knowledge and growth can allow one to see
their effects on others and at least reign it in. But Kaleah claims that
healing it is formulaic. How/where can I understand the inter-relationship
of these theories or their rectification? Thanks.

 

[anart]

Hey Buddy; Nice to see you back in there.

But this thread has left me a bit confused. A licensed LMFT I know here
in California claims that the 'official' line is that Narcissism can't be cured.
But it seems to me that knowledge and growth can allow one to see
their effects on others and at least reign it in. But Kaleah claims that
healing it is formulaic. How/where can I understand the inter-relationship
of these theories or their rectification? Thanks.

Narcissism as a Cluster B personality disorder cannot be cured. The 'garden variety' narcissism that a lot of people display due to what we refer to as narcissistic wounding can be cured. If a person has a Cluster B disorder - if they are diagnosed as a narcissist or malignant narcissist, they cannot be cured, though they can pretend to be cured to serve their purposes.