Ketogenic diet for kids and babies???

[Fluffy]

I want to get some some opinions about putting my 15 month old on a keto diet.
Lately she has not been digesting her food, it's coming out pretty much whole 3-4 times a day, it has some mucous in it but not loose and watery like diarrhoea.
I'm still breast feeding her 6 times a day, she has had gastro issues since newborn at first it was colic, foamy green poo, gas at both ends, lots of crying. Then when she started solids we quickly discovered she was not very tolerant of lots of things, meat of all kinds are fine and so were pears and berries but not so good with veggies like broccoli, may be carrot, and now questioning sweet potato too. She spent a few months with constipation issues so I used prune juice and it worked even though I really didn't like the idea, then I started taking magnesium and having it come though my milk we were able quit the prune juice and that was going okay until recently. Before I knew about nightshades she ate tomato til one day she got a rash around her mouth immediately while eating them, same thing with avocado. Eggs are out because they make her vomit. She has become reluctant to eat meat by itself, I mash her dinner with a stick blender and add lamb. This is mainly all she will eat besides from a rash of bacon for breakfast, some blueberries and strawberries a banana, and some flaked coconut.
When she was a bit younger I took her off all grains (I was making her buckwheat pancakes with banana for breakfast, she has never eaten any other grains beside from quinoa and never had any dairy) because she began to develop eczema on her arms. It cleared up but now it's back. Coupled with her gastro issues and allergy reaction to eggs and other foods I'm leaning towards the idea that she has a leaky gut, like me, and looking at the other people in the family, like them also.
I've been reading about the GAPS diet to heal leaky guts and it's initial phases aren't too dissimilar to keto diet, just with more veggies.
She is not immunised (my doc said I mustn't love her !!!), she seems to be very switched on, doesn't appear to have any behavioural issues and sleeps pretty well. She drinks 200+ ml of water a day from a chlorine and fluoride filter jug
Any thoughts on if keto is a good idea. We eat organic grass fed butter and meats, our chickens are grain free, dairy free, omnivores, even though little one won't eat them, I have may be 3 a week when I'm bored of meat. My diet is pretty strictly keto, no dairy, sometimes some macadamia but not often. Can't think of anything else that might be significant besides from she has never had an infection. She once had a cough for about a week but there was no green snot or anything that went along with that.

Thoughts on this one please.
Emma

 

[nicklebleu]

Definitely sounds like leaky gut to me ... has she had any antibiotics in her life?
Maybe you should attempt an elimination diet to see what is bothering her, although I can see that this is not going to be easy, as her food choices already seem pretty limited. The other thing is that you might feed her something she doesn't tolerate via the breast milk - maybe time to wean her off completely?

As to the KD - the literature is not very ample, but there seem to be some concerns with growth problems. I certainly wouldn't restrict protein in a child, as they need that for growing. If you up the fat in her nutrition and stay clear of grains and nasty veggies, that might already be enough ... Not sure if kids need to be in ketosis per se - again only scarce evidence in the medical literature.

That's all I can say at this stage - maybe others have other suggestions!

 

[truth seeker]

Definitely sounds like leaky gut to me ... has she had any antibiotics in her life?
Maybe you should attempt an elimination diet to see what is bothering her, although I can see that this is not going to be easy, as her food choices already seem pretty limited. The other thing is that you might feed her something she doesn't tolerate via the breast milk - maybe time to wean her off completely?

Yeah, I was thinking this as well. If she's 15 months, she has teeth so technically shouldn't need the breastfeeding, but I'm guessing this is more of a comfort thing?

It could be the macadamias or something else you're eating that's causing the reaction. You may also want to remove the coconut flakes and see how that goes. It could be a nut reaction.

 

[Laura]

Kids usually like things like chicken/turkey/ham salads made with chopped meat and mayo with maybe a bit of sweet pickle, peas, steamed carrots tossed in. Heck, we like it too.

Meats should be well-cooked and tender.

Warm buttered teas with erythritol for sweetener.

Fat bombs made with egg yolks.

Egg yolks with bacon crumbles.

 

[Can Won]

Based upon what my children like, it's ice cream!

I go with the coconut based fat bomb recipe, modify it slightly and each week we discuss what flavour we'd like to try. Our daughter who's 2 likes to help stir, so things can get a little messy ;)
Mint choc chip was the last one we made (peppermint essence with crumbled up home made chocolate) and our son reckons it's his favourite...

The old saying "if you don't eat all your dinner, you won't have any dessert" is no longer used :P

 

[Oxajil]

Hey Fluffy, maybe you could also try giving her homemade bone broth? That might also help strengthen her gut.

 

[Fluffy]

Definitely sounds like leaky gut to me ... has she had any antibiotics in her life?
Maybe you should attempt an elimination diet to see what is bothering her, although I can see that this is not going to be easy, as her food choices already seem pretty limited. The other thing is that you might feed her something she doesn't tolerate via the breast milk - maybe time to wean her off completely?

Yeah, I was thinking this as well. If she's 15 months, she has teeth so technically shouldn't need the breastfeeding, but I'm guessing this is more of a comfort thing?

It could be the macadamias or something else you're eating that's causing the reaction. You may also want to remove the coconut flakes and see how that goes. It could be a nut reaction.

I too would like to start the weaning process as I'm a bit over it, she just doesn't seem to be ready and I'm not sure how to go about it without loads of crying and keeping everyone up half the night. My others happily weaned onto cows milk at about one (that was over ten years ago when I didn't think twice about food like dairy)
I think there's a bit of an issue with my milk too because baby only vomits up eggs after she has a breast feed.
She's never had any antibiotics, but I have had a tonne of them in my life from horrible ear infections up until I was 15. Haven't had any for about 10 years but I guess my gut would be severely compromised and may be toxins are passing through to my milk...

I think you're right, with all the teeth she has and all the yummy meats and tasty grass fed butter we eat here is no reason why she needs my milk - especially if it's toxic!! Didn't think of that, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Hey Fluffy, maybe you could also try giving her homemade bone broth? That might also help strengthen her gut.

She drinks a little bit, I'll persevere with it though because I know how much it has helped my tummy problems. Thanks for the tip, it's hard to get toddlers to eat much of anything.

Kids usually like things like chicken/turkey/ham salads made with chopped meat and mayo with maybe a bit of sweet pickle, peas, steamed carrots tossed in. Heck, we like it too.

Meats should be well-cooked and tender.

Warm buttered teas with erythritol for sweetener.

Fat bombs made with egg yolks.

Egg yolks with bacon crumbles.

Yum, sounds good to me, too bad egg makes little one sick, I count on that going away soon though and opening up a whole new world of eating for her. I just got hungry for a chicken, egg, bacon and mayo salad

 

[Laura]

Try egg yolks WITHOUT the whites. Whites of eggs are bad for everyone.

 

[Fluffy]

Try egg yolks WITHOUT the whites. Whites of eggs are bad for everyone.

Will do just that tomorrow and see how it goes.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Eboard10]

Try egg yolks WITHOUT the whites. Whites of eggs are bad for everyone.

Will do just that tomorrow and see how it goes.
Fingers crossed.

I second that. I usually get eczema reactions to egg white so I'm now just eating the yolk which I tolerate much better though I tend to not overcook it and have it soft.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I thought it was natural for babies to be in ketosis pretty much. If that's the case, it would also be natural to stay keto adapted when being weened off breast milk and just eating solid food with the right fat to protein ratio (agreed with nicklebleu that there should be no protein restriction for kids - just the ratio being at least 65% fat of daily calories and up to 80 or 85%).

As far as eggs go, I've been avoiding the whites for a while. Is there any difference in how egg yolks are cooked as far as more nutritional benefits e.g. hard boiled vs fried, etc.?

 

[Martina]

My son is five and half and he likes keto food, but I'm still having problems with his grandparents, even my friends- they think I'm a food Nazi and I'm sick of all their crap :). Do you know how many people raises their small children to be vegetarians? And nobody says anything, but if you bake something on lard... ;)

 

[Fluffy]

My son is five and half and he likes keto food, but I'm still having problems with his grandparents, even my friends- they think I'm a food Nazi and I'm sick of all their crap :). Do you know how many people raises their small children to be vegetarians? And nobody says anything, but if you bake something on lard... ;)

I get loads of flack from family members about all the fat and lack of grains and milk, cream etc and minimal fruit I feed my little person too, I won't leave her with anyone because they think I'm being cruel to her by not letting her eat packet biscuits, spaghetti blah blah and I don't trust them not to give her a 'treat' while I'm not in control.

My dad jokes that he's going to call the department of community services and report me for being a bad mother, but I know that there is some truth in jest about his comments.

I was a brain dead vegetarian for most of my pregnancy thinking I was doing something good for me and my baby, I suggest that's a contributor to why she has problems with food, luckily for both of us we discovered the truth and the day I did I ate so much meat and felt amazing and complete again, and she got a few months in utero with some proper nutrients!!!

 

[Fluffy]

I thought it was natural for babies to be in ketosis pretty much. If that's the case, it would also be natural to stay keto adapted when being weened off breast milk and just eating solid food with the right fat to protein ratio (agreed with nicklebleu that there should be no protein restriction for kids - just the ratio being at least 65% fat of daily calories and up to 80 or 85%).

From my reading I'm fairy sure this exclusively breast fed babies are in a constant state of ketosis. Makes sense for it to be a natural protection mechanism while they have leaky guts for the first few months of life to help it heal so they can eat other food without becoming sick. Can't remember where I read that so please don't quote me on it. My brain hasn't healed from all the toxic food and other things I ate yet so my memory is shot!!!!

And what about toddlers who go on food boycotts? That's pretty common too so they would be in a ketogenic state from not eating enough.
My now 11 year old did exactly that when he was about 15 months old, would only eat cucumber, cheese, dairy milk and meat and some fruit but not much and because I didn't want to fill him with sugars I didn't allow him to eat much of anything else..

 

[truth seeker]

I thought it was natural for babies to be in ketosis pretty much. If that's the case, it would also be natural to stay keto adapted when being weened off breast milk and just eating solid food with the right fat to protein ratio (agreed with nicklebleu that there should be no protein restriction for kids - just the ratio being at least 65% fat of daily calories and up to 80 or 85%).

From my reading I'm fairy sure this exclusively breast fed babies are in a constant state of ketosis. Makes sense for it to be a natural protection mechanism while they have leaky guts for the first few months of life to help it heal so they can eat other food without becoming sick. Can't remember where I read that so please don't quote me on it. My brain hasn't healed from all the toxic food and other things I ate yet so my memory is shot!!!!

If I remember correctly, I first read that in Primal Body, Primal Mind. It was like one sentence long though, but it caught my attention. I think she got her info from the book, Basic Neurochemistry.

I did find this though:

Human babies are in ketosis

Soon after birth, human babies are in ketosis, and remain so while breastfeeding [2]. They use ketones and fats for energy and for brain growth.

When this has been studied, in the first couple of hours after birth, babies aren't immediately in ketosis. There is a short delay [3]. During that brief period before ketogenesis starts, lactate (confusingly not to do with lactation) becomes an important fuel to suppport the brain [4]. Some researchers speculate that this delay in ketogenesis could be because of a limited supply of carnitine, which is supplied by milk, but they also note that glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis (the process by which glucose is made out of protein) are not active immediately [5]. Therefore, it could simply be the case that ketogenesis takes time to get started. In other words, it may just be keto-adaptation.

Note, though, that the mothers of these babies were unlikely to have been ketogenic. As it happens, if the mother is in ketosis (as has been studied through fasting), ketone bodies will pass through the placenta and be used by the fetus [5], [6]. At the same time, gluconeogenesis is induced in the liver of the fetus, likely as a result of the insulin-to-glucagon ratio [7], [8]. Therefore, it is possible that the fetus of a ketogenic mother would already be independently ketogenic at birth.

_http://www.ketotic.org/2014/01/babies-thrive-under-ketogenic-metabolism.html

And what about toddlers who go on food boycotts? That's pretty common too so they would be in a ketogenic state from not eating enough.
My now 11 year old did exactly that when he was about 15 months old, would only eat cucumber, cheese, dairy milk and meat and some fruit but not much and because I didn't want to fill him with sugars I didn't allow him to eat much of anything else..

I'm not sure. Sometimes I wonder if children go through phases where they eat more at some times and less at others. I usually figure that if they're really hungry, they'll eat. Perhaps others can answer that better though.

Another thought is that your child is approaching the "terrible two's" or maybe more accurately, the "I'm asserting my independence and right to say no" stage. From what little I've experienced, there's not a lot of reasoning going on, and they can end up saying both "yes" and "no" in the same breath! So maybe it's less about the food at this point, but more about autonomy. Dunno.