Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Scottie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The taste isn't great, it can be bitter if you use too much, but if I use xylitol I gain weight because I'm so carb sensitive, so that's not good. Also, xylitol can make me "phlegmy" which is annoying and something stevia does not do. Xylitol is also plant based, so there isn't really a difference between the two on that front.

I'm one of the Stevia People, in that it doesn't taste gross to me. I'm pretty sure I do NOT have the "super smell and taste" gene.

I used to sweeten my tea with stevia, but it got to the point where I was using more and more. Then I quit it cold turkey when I went into full keto mode.

For a few days, tea tasted yucky, but I quickly adapted.

Then yesterday, I tried a half teaspoon of xylitol in my tea. I almost didn't finish drinking it! It just tasted bad, and I actually yearned for the stronger "pure tea flavor".

I might try some stevia again in an evening brew, which is usually herbal tea of some description that I simply cannot drink unless it's sweetened. Unlike tea, for me it's just like drinking hot plant water unless it's sweetened a bit. Will see what happens...

Anyway, I find it interesting that I could adjust to unsweetened tea fairly easily, and I even enjoy it now, but I can't adjust to unsweetened herbal teas.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I remember reading somewhere that another difference between stevia and xylitol is that, while xylitol is an insulin stabilizer, stevia can easily cause hypoglucemia depending on how sensitive one is. Not sure how accurate that is. In my case, I never have stevia because a)I don't like the taste, b) it makes me crave sweets.

 

[loreta]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Xylitol is impossible to find in my region but I will try next week at the capital, Salamanca. I asked also for D-Ribosa: the price is huge! For 150 gr. of it it would cost me 55 euros! :O Is that so? I think I will wait to buy D-Ribosa but if it take D-Ribosa to erase my sugar I will buy it. Is that so expensive in your countries? Or is it just here in Spain?

The women in the store told me that Xylitol is very laxative, is that true? They are dubious about Stevia, think it is a toxic product. Xilitol also, for them, is toxic.

 

[Andromeda]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I thought it would take ages to get rid of cravings but I'm actually quite repulsed by the idea of carby/ sweet foods because the fat leaves me so full. I am not at all distracted by cravings which is great and I'm actually really enjoying the keto meals.

I did have one sleepless night with achy legs and a racing mind with nausea, but other than that the effects have been positive. More energy, mind as sharp as a whistle, clear signals from my body, less/ no food related distractions and no bloating and gas.

Yeah, I had a similar experience with nausea and aching legs and hips at night in the beginning. Those symptoms went away after the first week or so for me. I found that putting a little apple cider vinegar in my bone broth helped keep the nausea down to a minimum.

It really is amazing how sharp your mind feels and how your ability to concentrate improves on this diet.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Xylitol is impossible to find in my region but I will try next week at the capital, Salamanca. I asked also for D-Ribosa: the price is huge! For 150 gr. of it it would cost me 55 euros! :O Is that so? I think I will wait to buy D-Ribosa but if it take D-Ribosa to erase my sugar I will buy it. Is that so expensive in your countries? Or is it just here in Spain?

I think that may be a little more expensive than I've seen D-Ribose costing online and in stores near me, but yeah, that stuff is really expensive in general.

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I remember reading somewhere that another difference between stevia and xylitol is that, while xylitol is an insulin stabilizer, stevia can easily cause hypoglucemia depending on how sensitive one is. Not sure how accurate that is.

I've heard the exact opposite, that xylitol messes with insulin levels and after a while the body responds to it exactly like sugar, so I think it would be REALLY helpful if we could get to the bottom of that one once and for all.

 

[Andromeda]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm one of those who doesn't tolerate stevia very well. I had forced myself to get used to the funny flavor at one point before I knew about xylitol, but as soon as I stopped using it and tried it again, I noticed that it caused shortness of breath and coughing. It also made me crave sweet things!

 

[loreta]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I bought 5 little sachets of Stevia to try it in power. Very disgusting. Really, Stevia is not for me. Now can you tell me the difference with D-ribosa? Is that product more natural? It is the taste more neutral? Thank you!

 

[Goemon_]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What about licorice root ? I use it after smoking to get rid of the taste of the cig.

Also, If sugar is as evil as you say, Laura, I wonder if I can continue to eat that salami I get from a local producer. He say he put 1g of sugar per kg. So, that is realy a little quantity, but I wonder.

 

[JonnyRadar]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Fwiw, I tolerate Stevia, but not very much of it. A little goes a long way, and when used too much it definitely tastes bad and has a lingering aftertaste...

A few years ago I tried xylitol but it made me very gassy. I left it alone after that because the effect was so dramatic. The most I found out (at the time) was that some people have a hard time digesting xylitol if it's not ground finely enough, so the gut will flip trying to digest these chunks of seemingly foreign material. The stuff I had used was about the consistency of coarse sea-salt...

 

[Deleted member 4320]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I personally don't eat sweet stuff at all. When I stopped consume sweet or sweetened, I discovered that many things which I had been eating/drinking was devoid of depths of taste. I had added sweet more by habits than real better taste. At present sweeteners are unnecessary for me, I command to try, but I know, that not every will become fond this. For example I hadn't drank tea without sugar, sweetener was necessary. It is inversely now. Now, sweeteners are unacceptable.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I might try some stevia again in an evening brew, which is usually herbal tea of some description that I simply cannot drink unless it's sweetened. Unlike tea, for me it's just like drinking hot plant water unless it's sweetened a bit. Will see what happens...

Anyway, I find it interesting that I could adjust to unsweetened tea fairly easily, and I even enjoy it now, but I can't adjust to unsweetened herbal teas.

Funny, as I'm the exact opposite. I drink my chamomile and mint tea in the evening without adding anything but need to sweeten my black tea in the morning a little. Especially after cooling, the herbal tea tastes really good while smoking my pipe. Hope I can eventually drink black tea unsweetened too.

 

[Scottie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I remember reading somewhere that another difference between stevia and xylitol is that, while xylitol is an insulin stabilizer, stevia can easily cause hypoglucemia depending on how sensitive one is. Not sure how accurate that is.

I've heard the exact opposite, that xylitol messes with insulin levels and after a while the body responds to it exactly like sugar, so I think it would be REALLY helpful if we could get to the bottom of that one once and for all.

Well, I figure that both are probably not terribly good for anyone. I suspect the whole "sweet" thing is one giant evil brain chemical trap.

Then again, I still notice a HUGE difference between sugar and xylitol.

I also noticed that on the KD, xylitol no longer makes me jet-propelled like it did on the Paleo diet.

As for stevia, we'll see what happens. After all, it's night, and I need a tasty non-caffeinated beverage for such a great movie!

 

[Scottie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Funny, as I'm the exact opposite. I drink my chamomile and mint tea in the evening without adding anything but need to sweeten my black tea in the morning a little. Especially after cooling, the herbal tea tastes really good while smoking my pipe. Hope I can eventually drink black tea unsweetened too.

Oh dear god, unsweetened mint tea is the worst for me! It tastes like boiled grass clippings or something.

:P

I even tried different kinds of mint, and no dice. Chamomile, too. Then again, I used to drink my chamomile with like a shovel full of stevia, so that one doesn't count.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Muxel posted the following in the LWB thread:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10690946

Stevioside acts directly on pancreatic beta cells to secrete insulin: actions independent of cyclic adenosine monophosphate and adenosine triphosphate-sensitive K+-channel activity. Jeppesen PB, Gregersen S, Poulsen CR, Hermansen K. Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Aarhus University Hospital, Denmark.

In conclusion, stevioside and steviol stimulate insulin secretion via a direct action on beta cells. The results indicate that the compounds may have a potential role as antihyperglycemic agents in the treatment of type 2 diabetes mellitus.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18435771

Rebaudioside A directly stimulates insulin secretion from pancreatic beta cells: a glucose-dependent action via inhibition of ATP-sensitive K-channels. Abudula R, Matchkov VV, Jeppesen PB, Nilsson H, Aalkjaer C, Hermansen K. Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism C, Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus C, Denmark.

Recently, we showed that rebaudioside A potently stimulates the insulin secretion from isolated mouse islets in a dose-, glucose- and Ca2+-dependent manner. Little is known about the mechanisms underlying the insulinotropic action of rebaudioside A. The aim of this study was to define the signalling system by which, rebaudioside A acts.

In conclusion, the insulinotropic effect of rebaudioside A is mediated via inhibition of ATP-sensitive K+-channels and requires the presence of high glucose. The inhibition of ATP-sensitive K+-channels is probably induced by changes in the ATP/ADP ratio.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15375798

Rebaudioside A Potently Stimulates Insulin Secretion From Isolated Mouse Islets: Studies on the Dose-, Glucose-, and Calcium-Dependency Reziwanggu Abudula, Per Bendix Jeppesen, Stig Eric D. Rolfsen, Jianzhong Xiao, and Kjeld Hermansen

Extracts of leaves of the plant Stevia rebaudiana Bertoni (SrB), have been used for many years in traditional treatment of diabetes in South America. Stevia leaves contain diterpene glycosides, stevioside and rebaudioside A being the most abundant. Recently, it was demonstrated that stevioside stimulates the insulin secretion both in vitro and in vivo.

The effect of rebaudioside A is critically dependent on the presence of extracellular Ca2+, ie, rebaudioside A–induced insulin stimulation at high glucose disappears in the absence of extracellular Ca2+. In conclusion, rebaudioside A possesses insulinotropic effects and may serve a potential role as treatment in type 2 diabetes mellitus.

Also curious_richard, I made a typo: it should've been "stimulate the pancreas to secrete insulin". Sorry 'bout that. (Also, if you'd rather I just post the links without quotes, let me know.)

In the second study it says,

Diabetes Obes Metab. 2008 Nov;10(11):1074-85. Epub 2008 Apr 22.
Rebaudioside A directly stimulates insulin secretion from pancreatic beta cells: a glucose-dependent action via inhibition of ATP-sensitive K-channels.
Abudula R, Matchkov VV, Jeppesen PB, Nilsson H, Aalkjaer C, Hermansen K.
Source

Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism C, Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus C, Denmark.
Abstract

Recently, we showed that rebaudioside A potently stimulates the insulin secretion from isolated mouse islets in a dose-, glucose- and Ca(2+)-dependent manner. Little is known about the mechanisms underlying the insulinotropic action of rebaudioside A. The aim of this study was to define the signalling system by which, rebaudioside A acts. Isolated mouse islets were used in the cAMP[(125)I] scintillation proximity assay to measure total cAMP level, and in a luminometric method to measure intracellular ATP and ADP concentrations. Conventional and permeabilized whole-cell configuration of the patch-clamp technique was used to verify the effect of rebaudioside A on ATP-sensitive K(+)-channels from dispersed single beta cells from isolated mouse islets. Insulin was measured by radioimmunoassay from insulinoma MIN6 cells. In the presence of 16.7 mM glucose, the addition of the maximally effective concentration of rebaudioside A (10(-9) M) increased the ATP/ADP ratio significantly, while it did not change the intracellular cAMP level. Rebaudioside A (10(-9) M) and stevioside (10(-6) M) reduced the ATP-sensitive potassium channel (K(ATP)) conductance in a glucose-dependent manner. Moreover, rebaudioside A stimulated the insulin secretion from MIN6 cells in a dose- and glucose-dependent manner. In conclusion, the insulinotropic effect of rebaudioside A is mediated via inhibition of ATP-sensitive K(+)-channels and requires the presence of high glucose. The inhibition of ATP-sensitive K(+)-channels is probably induced by changes in the ATP/ADP ratio. The results indicate that rebaudioside A may offer a distinct therapeutic advantage over sulphonylureas because of less risk of causing hypoglycaemia.

In short, it stimulated the secretion of insulin proportionally to the amount of carbs consumed. So I would think it should be safe on a ketogenic diet.

But I think the problem with sweeteners is that it stimulates the sugar reward pathways in your brain, regardless if it is natural or sugar free. I have certainly noticed that I drink way too much tea sweetened with stevia and it is not good. I'll cut back and see how it goes.