Language is evil

[Temperance]

I remember a long time ago, working with a German guy who had no English, except for yes and no, and likewise, I had no German, but we both knew our job, and had no problems communicating, It was funny, its like cave men, lots of gesturing, with appropriate noise making.

I've experienced something similar when I was working as an unloader of trucks. Two people working in the back of a trailer, stacking boxes onto a wooden pallet in patterns specific to the shape of the boxes. Communication can be done non-verbally - mostly with pointing and demonstrating. Then when both people know the same job the same way, verbosity is not necessary at all. Communication happens though, but I think of it as systemic rather than personal, if that makes any sense.

Yes that makes sense...

But we were not very bright, hence some form of verbal communication just happened. Ee’s Oo’s and Aa’s mostly, picked out of my deliberate broken/minimised English, and I’m assuming his minimised German, along with yes’s, and no’s, we were idiots at work, or maybe just me. lol

Though it was the installation of scanning and routing equipment, and it’s integration into a new line, the job was somebody’s afterthought, and not on the original plans, hence the manifestation of the Ee’s, Oo’s and Aa’s... as the idiotic powers above so the manifestation of idiocy below.

I think its universal, works for dinner, work, rest, and play. Just the expression is slightly different, much like some cultures (Greek) would use the same (slang) word to greet a friend, or describe a bad friend... just how its expressed, its intonation. osit (though I’m out of my dept here)

A friend of mine told me that she had spent a week at a silent retreat, where no one was allowed to speak. She said that at first it was difficult, but after a day or two, everyone there became much more attentive to the gestures and needs of others. It is my guess that when we stop using verbal language to communicate, our ability to read body language and non-verbal sounds is first warmed up and then kicked into overdrive, allowing us to tap into primal ways of communication that we don't usually rely fully upon.
This also reminds me of some concepts discussed in Social Intelligence by Daniel Goleman, particularly our ability to empathize with others through a mechanism involving involuntary muscle contraction to match those of a person we are attending to or observing. This made me think that written language is not nearly as efficient as transmitting emotions as non-verbal communication, although I still wouldn't want to call it "evil" even though it is somewhat more detached... osit

If only we were all skilled at telepathy... :P

 

[Phill4]

I think that our language is definitely corrupted and I agree to some extend with the idea that in removes meaning from certain events, things, experiences, but that is only if used in a common way without context and many times it is the meaning we give it that corrupts it.

When you tell a memory you reinterpret this memory, and it has something to do with what G. described when he spoke about the language used in the work and how our thoughts and feelings are transitory.

Also in reading the introduction of the book of 5 rings by Minamoto Musashi which is a rather short lecture, he begins explaining that these words hold no meaning to someone not in the path of the warrior, and that there are certain qualities you must have in order to understand.

A simple phrase can take a huge meaning if you have the knowledge to understand it.


Words are like a coper line to an appliance, what is important is to what it is connecting, if the appliance is correctly wired or if it is a short circuit, we are the ones who filter the information or transmute the information coming through. I wanna say alchemy.

In the same example, if you have the appliance of the "warrior" you will need two words to understand what to do because the rest of the connections and receptors are ready to assimilate.

 

[Buddy]

Words are like a coper line to an appliance, what is important is to what it is connecting, if the appliance is correctly wired or if it is a short circuit...

Thank you for a wonderful analogy. :) I think it's useful to explain how seemingly ordinary people can be so brilliant in one area and idiotic in another. Short circuit. And when I think in terms of neurons and associated synaptic activity with its chemical-electric-information transforms, to me, it literally is that!

 

[Temperance]

I think that our language is definitely corrupted and I agree to some extend with the idea that in removes meaning from certain events, things, experiences, but that is only if used in a common way without context and many times it is the meaning we give it that corrupts it.

When you tell a memory you reinterpret this memory, and it has something to do with what G. described when he spoke about the language used in the work and how our thoughts and feelings are transitory.

Also in reading the introduction of the book of 5 rings by Minamoto Musashi which is a rather short lecture, he begins explaining that these words hold no meaning to someone not in the path of the warrior, and that there are certain qualities you must have in order to understand.

A simple phrase can take a huge meaning if you have the knowledge to understand it.


Words are like a coper line to an appliance, what is important is to what it is connecting, if the appliance is correctly wired or if it is a short circuit, we are the ones who filter the information or transmute the information coming through. I wanna say alchemy.

In the same example, if you have the appliance of the "warrior" you will need two words to understand what to do because the rest of the connections and receptors are ready to assimilate.

From The Book of Five Rings:

...These are the four walks of life, of knights, farmers, artisans, and merchants. I will illustrate the science of martial arts by likening it to the way of the carpenter. The carpenter is used as a metaphor in reference to the notion of a house. We speak of aristocratic houses, military hoses, houses of the arts; and we speak of such and such a tradition, style, or "house". Since we use the expression "house," therefore, I have employed the way of the master carpenter as a metaphor.
The word for carpenter is written with characters meaning "great skill" or "master plan." Since the science of martial arts involves great skill and master planning, I am writing about it in terms of comparison with carpentry...
...As the master carpenter directs the journeyman, he knows their various levels of skill and gives them appropriate tasks. Some are assigned to the flooring, some to the doors and screens, some to the sills, lintels, and ceilings, and so on. He has the unskilled set out the floor joists,and gets those even less skilled to carve wedges. When the master carpenter exercises discernment in the assignment of jobs, the work progresses smoothly.
Efficiency and smooth progress, prudence in all matters, recognizing true courage, recognizing different levels of morale, instilling confidence, and realizing what can and cannot be reasonably expected--such are the matters of the mind of the master carpenter. The principle of martial arts is like this...
...As far as the paths are concerned, there are Confucians, Buddhists, tea connoisseurs, teachers of etiquette, dancers, and so on. These things do not exist in the way of warriors. But even if they are not your path, if you have the wide knowledge of the ways, you encounter them in everything. In any case, as human beings, it is essential for each of us to cultivate and polish our individual path."

Is this what you were referring to, Felipe4?

I included the sections not in bold because they seem to me relevant to the discussion, although less directly as the one in bold. :)

 

[Phill4]

Hi Gullie this in connection to another segment I could not find:

The principles of strategy are written down here in terms of single combat, but you must think broadly so that you attain an understanding for ten−thousand−a−side battles.
Strategy is different from other things in that if you mistake the Way even a little you will become bewildered and fall into bad ways.
If you merely read this book you will not reach the Way of strategy. Absorb the things written in this book. Do not just read, memorize or imitate, but so that you realize the principle from within your own heart study hard to absorb these things into your body

 

[Temperance]

Felipe, that sounds like assimilating knowledge into one's being! The first time that I read The Book of Five Rings, I didn't quite pick up on all these things. Through this post I was able to see that this short text was studded with gold.

 

[Phill4]

The first time i heard the idea of focusing of the deep meaning of the words was via a friend back in 7th grade, his father was part of a martial arts and meditation group whe he was younger which influenced my friend and me by proxy.

The exercice that we used to practice was a form of meditation.

Basically we took the book "the prayer of the frog" which is a compilation of stories and morals.
The excersice consisted in taking each phrase or quote and read one at a time, after reading one you would sit and meditate abou the meaning of it, one maybe two a day tops.

The excersice had a very strong effect on me probably more i could understand at the time.

When I read the comments of G. About mechanical reading it was very easy for me to understand what he was refering to. But it is something that takes careful practice anccritical thinkibg because again it is very powerfull and you don't wanna feed your mind "bad food" i.e. Disinformation..

 

[Temperance]

The first time i heard the idea of focusing of the deep meaning of the words was via a friend back in 7th grade, his father was part of a martial arts and meditation group whe he was younger which influenced my friend and me by proxy.

The exercice that we used to practice was a form of meditation.

Basically we took the book "the prayer of the frog" which is a compilation of stories and morals.
The excersice consisted in taking each phrase or quote and read one at a time, after reading one you would sit and meditate abou the meaning of it, one maybe two a day tops.

The excersice had a very strong effect on me probably more i could understand at the time.

When I read the comments of G. About mechanical reading it was very easy for me to understand what he was refering to. But it is something that takes careful practice anccritical thinkibg because again it is very powerfull and you don't wanna feed your mind "bad food" i.e. Disinformation..

That seems like a really great exercise, pretty much what we're supposed to do with the Prayer of the Soul, no? Like try to understand what every line really means and how it all ties together?

I know what you mean regarding mechanical reading. Sometimes I get carried away in just wanting to read faster and finish a book(impatient, I know) at the expense of really thinking about it, although I've gotten better at reading faster while also critically thinking. It also depends on what I'm reading, like for example if I'm reading a psychology book I'll think about what I'm reading but mostly just take in the information and think about it throughout the day later on, seeing how it applies to my life, trying to find contradictions, seeing if it's observably true, etc. If I'm reading philosophy, I'm usually much slower and more analytical, paying much closer attention to everything while I'm reading rather than afterwards. When I read history, it tends to be more mechanical and I just take in the information, and think about it, although not as much as with philosophy. In reading fiction, like the Harry Potter series for example(which I read this summer), I was able to both read fast and pick up on analogies regarding the government, racism, petty tyrants, as well as pick up on Dumbledore's wisdom My first interest in deep meanings and symbolism was in analyzing my dreams when I was younger, although I don't remember exactly when this started. I'd say some time between 6th and 8th grade. It wasn't until 10th-11th grade that I really started looking deeply into the symbols of fictional works, but boy oh boy did that change my reading experience. That basically primed me to be able to understand symbolism in mythology and dreams, and took it to a whole different level when I started reading Secret History and started looking at life through a different "dictionary", although this hasn't been fully incorporated into my being yet, but bit by bit I'm lessening the use of the Juvenile dictionary. I'm currently working on balancing speed reading with analytical reading.

Doesn't G say, in his intro to Beelzebub's Tales, to read the book thrice? It's as if he expects the first reading to be more or less mechanical(I don't remember if he stated this as such or not), although he seems aware that info is going into the subconscious to gestate(I think he did state this), and he recommends not to read it analytically until the last time through(If i remember correctly). In this one i caught myself being impatient and reading without putting terrible effort into analyzing, although some things just stuck out, like Beelzebub, a "demon" , on a spaceship, which is a pretty significant link to make IMO. I think the impatience came from the sheer length of the book, and just wanting to get through it. I returned it to its owner when I was about 200 pages deep though, since he wanted to start it.

I've been able to somewhat counter this impatience effect by reading more than one book at once so as to not just want to finish it and read compulsively, but rather take each in piece by piece. Seems to be working, so far.

 

[Mathaw E. Squire]

Very interesting. I have some of my own thoughts on language being evil ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjfRGEzVr5o What do you think?

 

[Gawan]

to our forum Mathaw, actually, seeing as this is your first post on the forum, we would appreciate it if you would post a brief intro about yourself in the Newbies section, telling us how you found this forum, how long you've been reading it and/or the SOTT page, whether or not you've read any of Laura's books yet, etc.

Beside it would be great if you could provide more information about a source you like to share here (i.e. the already gone video), because not everybody has the time to watch videos and that other members get a clue what it is about.