legal question

[webglider]

I would appreciate some advice concerning a legal issue. Last summer I made a verbal agreement with an acupuncturist that I would sign up for a year of treatments in exchange for reduced rates. However, I am finding that the treatments are too expensive for me to continue even with the reduced rates. I offered to pay the difference between the treatments that have already been provided, plus a penalty for terminating the contract. I never had a regular schedule for treatments, and I always showed up for my appointments. As I had reserved no dedicated hours and times, the acupuncturist was free to schedule other patients at any time or day.

He was extremely angry that I didn't want to continue for the rest of the year. I could understand his position which is why I offered to make up the difference for the treatments I had already received plus a penalty.rk

I spoke to him at length about this, and suggested that it might be a possibility that I could continue with him if I downgraded to a less expensive plan. About an hour after I spoke to him I received the following written response in an email. I do not want to cause this person financial harm, but his treatments are too expensive for me. However his response seems totally inappropriate and extortionist.

I did not receive any treatments for the last two months. I think that he was depending on the income for that amount monthly even though the plan was for a year. I would be willing to work out a payment plan for those two months since I did not contact him during that time. I'd like to know if a verbal agreement for medical services that one no longer wants is legally binding?

I would appreciate any feedback. Here is his message to which I have not yet replied:

Thank you for contacting me earlier today. I have spoken to _____ and we have come up with 2 options.

1. Come into the office and catch-up with your late payments (TOTAL: $916.66)
Then continue care as you choose. You have 75 treatments left, which have to be used by 6/30/2012.

2. Total payment to get out of the contract
$625-- total cost per treatment of already used treatments (difference)
$550-- 10% penalty breech-of-contract
$916.66-- 2month late payment
_______________________
TOTAL: $2,091.66
You can make 2 payment of $1,045.83.
First payment due immediately, 2nd payment due 30 days later.
Please make check payable too: X

By opting out of your family yearly plan you are saving: $1,575.02

We hope you choose to continue your care by choosing option 1--in this respect everyone benefits.
Please respond to this email before the end of the business day.

I thought at the time I made the agreement that my daughter would continue treatment, but she only came twice and then dropped out. I have not needed a family plan for months.
I don't think that this guy is doing well in these hard times, and I feel for him, but I really am appalled at the confrontational and threatening tone of his response. Why would he think that I'd like to be treated by him after that email?

 

[anart]

Did you sign anything with him about this contract?

 

[Laura]

Ummm... a "healer" type person who acts like this is bad news. If you didn't sign anything, ditch him and never go back and never recommend him to anyone else.

The NERVE!

 

[webglider]

quote from anart

Did you sign anything with him about this contract?

No. However, oral contracts are binding as well in certain situations which may vary from state to state.I just don't know if medical care fits the criteria for a binding contract. I mean, do you have to continue to see a medical professional if you don't want to? I understand the need for legal action when someone has received services and not been paid ffor something like construction work. But in this case I received no services and offered to make restitution. He threatened to report me to a collection agency if I didn't respond to him by the close of the business day. I did not respond.

quote from Laura:

Ummm... a "healer" type person who acts like this is bad news. If you didn't sign anything, ditch him and never go back and never recommend him to anyone else.

The NERVE!

I was really taken aback because I did see his point of view and would try to do what I could to meet my own ethical standards. I would still, even now, pay him the difference between the costs of the treatments, because he did lose money because I paid a lower price. That's fair, I think. I think though, under the circumstances, since he took the my suggestion that he impose a penalty to manipulate me into returning to him for treatments, I have the right to retract that offer as that was not in the oral agreement.

It was just very upsetting, and I spent the whole day looking up legal advice that would address this situation.

Frankly, I'd rather pay a lawyer.

 

[Guardian]

No. However, oral contracts are binding as well in certain situations which may vary from state to state.I just don't know if medical care fits the criteria for a binding contract.

I wouldn't think so. What if you had an adverse reaction to the treatments? I'd tell the guy to go pound sand. You offered to pay the difference between the discounted rate and the regular rate, for the session you did receive, which is fair.

Him trying to force you to take medical treatments you don't want (for any reason) is CREEPY!

 

[Mrs. Peel]

No. However, oral contracts are binding as well in certain situations which may vary from state to state.I just don't know if medical care fits the criteria for a binding contract.

I wouldn't think so. What if you had an adverse reaction to the treatments? I'd tell the guy to go pound sand. You offered to pay the difference between the discounted rate and the regular rate, for the session you did receive, which is fair.

Him trying to force you to take medical treatments you don't want (for any reason) is CREEPY!

Well, how do you prove an oral contract? I mean, it's a case of "he said, she said" basically if you have NOTHING in writing. I'd use that to your advantage. His rates sound outrageous anyhow. I'd just pay the difference for the treatments you already had and then tell him to pound salt! ;)

 

[webglider]

quote from Mrs. Peel:

Well, how do you prove an oral contract?

I did some research since my last post and I found something called equitable estoppel which was created to protect people who enter into oral agreement.

There are several different illustrations of equitable estoppel

There are several specific types of equitable estoppel. Promissory estoppel is a contract law doctrine. It occurs when a party reasonably relies on the promise of another party, and because of the reliance is injured or damaged. For example, suppose a restaurant agrees to pay a bakery to make 50 pies. The bakery has only two employees. It takes them two days to make the pies, and they are unable to bake or sell anything else during that time. Then, the restaurant decides not to buy the pies, leaving the bakery with many more pies than it can sell and a loss of profit from the time spent baking them. A court will likely apply the Promissory Estoppel doctrine and require the restaurant to fulfill its promise and pay for the pies.

So applying this case to my situation, would the acupuncturist be able to claim harm if he made a purchase that relied upon future payments negotiated in the oral agreement?

I would hope that an exception could be made in terms of medical care. Guardian expresses my reaction when she writes:

Him trying to force you to take medical treatments you don't want (for any reason) is CREEPY!

Especially creepy is the image I have of him hovering over me with all those needles after this very unpleasant experience.

Well, in looking for the good in all of this, I learned something about the legality of oral agreements. Hopefully my experience will help someone else on the forum not make the same mistake

 

[Voyageur]

[quote author=webglider ]
He threatened to report me to a collection agency if I didn't respond to him by the close of the business day. I did not respond. [/quote]

Without written contract, do not think this is possible. Fleecing comes to mind when reading this from a health worker who's concerns are not on health regardless of his perceived situation.

Good luck with this.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Definitely creepy. This acupuncturist should be avoided by others, as well.

Oral agreements ARE just as binding as written ones, except they are very hard to enforce because you can't prove the terms of the agreement. And in the case of medical treatments, I don't know if there are any mitigating circumstances.

Maybe just offer to pay the difference on the discount -- to have paid the full price for the treatments you did receive -- and make it clear that it is a take it or leave it situation. But then you are putting more evidence for the equitable estoppel/Promissory Estoppel principal to be pursued. (But it seems, that's already been put on the record?) I'm not sure if he can then claim like you said, he made purchases/expenditures based on the expectation of income from your agreement.

Good luck with working it out and then avoid him and always tell others looking for an acupuncturist to avoid him like the plague.

 

[stellar]

Definitely creepy. This acupuncturist should be avoided by others, as well.

Oral agreements ARE just as binding as written ones, except they are very hard to enforce because you can't prove the terms of the agreement. And in the case of medical treatments, I don't know if there are any mitigating circumstances.

Can the provider ultimately prove that the services he has provided so far have been beneficial to you? Probably not, so I would most likely argue that his services are inadequate and no longer appropriate for your health; or words to that effect.

Either way it seems neither of you have any proof that would stand up in court except heresay. FWIW

I would probably just walk away, maybe a little wiser for it. :/

 

[Voyageur]

Just a thinking Webglider. If the acupuncturists were instead a mechanic wanting to maintain your car and offered verbally to give you a really good deal for his extended service plan and you verbally agreed but then found it too expensive in the end, perhaps even the maintenance was really not very good for your car, would you still feel obligated to pay for this even though he was not working on your car anymore other than what may be owed prior?

Not sure if this analogy is useful but was trying to separate the human physical for the mechanical to see if it makes a difference in thinking.

 

[webglider]

I found my way to my state's Office of Professional Regulation. Every state in the U.S. has one. Just in case anyone else ever has a similar situation, that's who you call. After I explained the circumstances, of being billed for services I never received, they referred me to The Office of Professional Discipline. whose reaction was, "That's just wrong."

The Office of Professional Discipline sending me a complaint form, and after the paperwork is done, someone from the Office of Professional Discipline will conduct an investigation.

I never wanted to go this route.

 

[ana]

I never wanted to go this route.

It seems a good option to me since there was no possible solution with this individual, let's see how it goes

 

[Guardian]

Especially creepy is the image I have of him hovering over me with all those needles after this very unpleasant experience.

No kidd'in! Not like "trust" is an issue when you're letting someone stick needles in various portions of your anatomy. :O

I'm glad you found the appropriate regulatory board, 'cause what this guy is doing is wayyyyy over the top! If it were me, I'd make my encounter with him public so as to warn others, but that choice is not for everybody.

I hope you get this worked out webglider. I'm sure you didn't go to an acupuncturist to increase your stress.

 

[Redrock12]

Webglider, your situation with this acupuncturist makes my blood boil. This bozo probably never had a legal leg to stand on to begin with. And I would LUV to have a collection agency try to collect from me on something so ridiculous.
He should have been a dentist.