looking for change - motivation

[artemesia]

Hi,
This is my first post besides the quick introduction I made. I'm a little nervous about writing because I don't want to be reprimanded on what topics are allowed or for me just not knowing somethings just yet. Perhaps this is just a venting (noise???) but I feel it is somehow related to something. I have a lot of anger issues. I was drinking a lot and the anger was coming out very aggressively so I decided that maybe I'm an alcoholic. I was drinking every night and have for years. Not always to the point of being drunk. I just really enjoyed a couple beers after work with dinner, sometimes a lot more than a couple. Then I started getting really depressed and then the depression would turn into anger. So someone convinced me to go to Alcoholics Anonymous because it has "saved their life" so to say. That person loves it so much that they go usually go two times a day.

I went to four meetings last week. At first I thought maybe they could help. I started reading their Big Book. I can see how it can help if you can look at it from certain perspectives. But the meetings just felt so uncomfortable. God this, God that, God God God. Now I have always felt there is a creator and perhaps I have lost touch with it but there is just an uncomfortable feeling at these meetings. Yes, they say "however you define your god" but there is just something about these meetings. It feels cultish. Not only that, it is a "poor me" party. Everyone sitting around feeling sorry for themselves. The book talks about service to others, not putting the focus on "I" so I did like that.

I am looking for change, that is why I went. After going, I feel now I am not an "alcoholic" according to the way they all appear. Perhaps I am a "dry alcoholic" because I can stop drinking without their "rules" or steps. I haven't had a drink in over a week and don't care to anytime soon. Yes, I am lost and I see how AA can help some people. It was described to me as "free therapy." The group thing is nice but I just can't put my finger on it about AA. I wish we had a CA (cassiopaeas anonymous) where we would get together like that and help everyone on whatever "step" they are on with a sponsor. HA! HA! ;) I know this forum is similar to that but the intimate feel of talking one on one with another person is what I feel is needed.

So perhaps instead of attending these meetings for an hour, I can use that hour or more and learn the breathing exercises. Make time to work on myself in my own way. I have never gotten into meditating but I really want to. I want to change and use my energy wisely. I'm just finding it difficult to get that motivation to take that first step and to keep on with it. I start a lot of things only to get distracted and forget about what I started. I'm addicted to my old patterns of living. I need to "reprogram" and learn how to rewire the old hard drive. My body and mind are sleeping but my soul is trying to wake it up. Anyone have any advice on just getting it started? The art of actually doing instead of dreaming? Baby steps??? The alcohol definitely keeps my creative side dead and I feel more alive by not drinking. Ok, so that is step one to changing. This isn't about me being an alcoholic because now I realize I'm not. I just need to jump start my battery to get going. Once the ball is rolling, I feel I can keep it going once I see the changes. Part of me wishes that I could have my own Don Juan to help show me my own power.

Thanks for reading. Any advice or words of wisdom from personal experience would be great!

 

[Renaissance]

Hi artemisia, I agree that like you say AA is helpful for some but it isn't always for everyone. The whole process of recovery is pretty interesting to me as it can aid in an examination of one's life. Although it's most common for people who have had addiction or have had something devastating happen in their lives, it really can be a beneficial process for anyone. I sort of look at the Work here as an process of recovery (with a high signal) from living under psychopathic influence and from all the toxins that go along with it.

I think comparing your use of alcohol with others in AA might not provide you with the measuring tool that will really be beneficial for you. It really is just looking at your self and your life. Comparisons to others only move the light away from finding who you ought to be and how you got to be where you are. I think there are a number of things found in the forum which could help, but I think it's also important that you have or develop some kind of support system where you can work through the issues that will come up when you have a good period of time that you don't drink. Alcohol numbs emotions, and it's likely a lot will come to the surface as you move forward. If you're not inclined to AA's program, seeing a counselor might help, particularly if you've been feeling a lot of anger and need to process it.

On the forum I would definitely recommend checking out the diet and health section. Alcohol contributes to candida overgrowth, and an interesting thing about candida is that it send signals to your brain to crave the substances that feed it, like alcohol which breaks down into a sugar and ultimately is what the candida is after. Hard candy and sugar snacks are popular in the recovery community, I think for this reason. Getting it out of your system will help with the cravings. There's two good threads on candida here and here. The other thing is alcohol is stored in your fat cells, so unless you go on a detox diet, the craving for alcohol will likely continue for a long time as the fat cells release it little by little. In this regard you might want to try taking niacin and doing some exercising, there's a thread on that here. Another potential benefit (and there are many) of doing a detox diet is that it can focus the extra energy you'll have in a productive way. It's easy to pick up a drink again if you're bored, which can easily result if there's not an activity to take the place of drinking.

The next thing I would suggest is reading the recommended 'Big Five', which are:

Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

It's suggested to read these in the above order as each provides a layer of understanding that is enhanced by the next. In the Narcissistic Family, the Pressmans' write on how they found strong parallels between the dynamics of narcissistic families and families with an alcoholic parent. It boils down to emotional numbness which sadly is a given in our society. Uncovering how we got to where we are can go great lengths in helping us to heal from our wounds. These books are really a must read for every normal human being.

If you start doing the EE program, it may be a good idea to start with the pipe breathing and the meditation. EE's pretty powerful in getting rid of all sorts of toxins from the body, emotions and mind and doing the regular routine might be pretty taxing if your system has years worth of toxins in it. The pipe breathing and meditation will help ease into it. But then again, you might want to try doing the whole program here and there and find what sort of routine works best for you.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Hi, artemisia,

I agree with what Los wrote. The big 5 books will help you understand many things about how you got where you are and REALLY help understand what you are observing when you do self-observation in the Work. The EE program will have intense results with motivation and cleansing mind, body, and soul. The old stuck emotions will be processed and clear out to really accelerate the Work. The diet and general detoxing will make it all possible so physiologically you'll have enough high level functioning to help with the emotional and intellectual functioning.

Also interact and network on the forum. No one can do the Work by themselves. We need an objective and colinear network. As you proceed, ask for help and advise as you need it. We're always here to help.

As you see, there's no reason to be afraid to post. Only if someone is manipulative or is not willing to follow the forum guidelines, will they be called on their behavior. Also when you get a bit farther into the Work on yourself you will be offered a mirror when you interact on the forum which is VERY helpful to see you programs. It can be uncomfortable but it is indespensable and the "style" of mirroring has become more gentle over time to help the person see their programs without having them shut down.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[truth seeker]

Hi artemisia,

First of all, I want to thank you for sharing with the forum.

I don't know much about AA, but what little I do know raises some red flags for me. This is not to say that it is not helpful for some, but my current understanding of it makes me wonder.

The first thing as you mentioned is the the strong push to get people involved in religion. This makes me wonder if the catholic church is behind this organization in some way. If anyone has any corrections, please feel free.

The other thing that makes me uncomfortable is that I wonder just how much personal responsibility is put on each person for their recovery. While I definitely understand and agree with the need for support from others who are experiencing the same issue, I wonder if it doesn't end up being more of a dependency - sort of trading one addiction for another. I'm not sure.

The advice given above is good. In particular, the suggestion of reading the narcissism books. These will help you to start to see what fears you may be using alcohol to avoid.

 

[shijing]

Hi Artemisia --

This is my first post besides the quick introduction I made. I'm a little nervous about writing because I don't want to be reprimanded on what topics are allowed or for me just not knowing somethings just yet.

Don't worry about this -- reprimands are usually delivered to those who are insincere or breaking the forum rules. If you do something wrong, someone will let you know, but it's nothing to be nervous about -- we are all learning. It is good to develop a habit of searching for topics that you want to discuss -- there is a thread that discusses AA here, and you can find a few other things that might be of interest to you by doing a search on "Alcoholics Anonymous".

I am looking for change, that is why I went. After going, I feel now I am not an "alcoholic" according to the way they all appear.

Habits are different than addictions, and it is possible for you to drink regularly and never be an alcoholic. It is good that you asked this question, however, so that you could know for sure. One thing to keep in mind is that many alcoholic drinks (including beer) are wheat-based, and wheat is very not good for you -- gluten-based inflammation could be occurring throughout your body, including your brain, and that could have emotional consequences of the kind you describe, I would think.

You've already gotten a lot of great advice above -- E/E, detox, and reading the Big 5 will probably get you on your way to some very noticeable change once you implement them. Best wishes as you get started :)

 

[Meg]

Hi artemisia,

I can relate to your experiences with AA. I have been to plenty of meetings like the ones you described. They are sobriety association meetings, not truly AA. It isn't supposed to about examining your life or getting "free therapy". Unfortunately, that is what it has become. Finding people and meetings where that isn't the focus is near impossible, but they are out there.

If you want to know more about what you should be hearing from people in meetings, I pasted a few links to AA speakers (taken from open speaker meetings) who serve AA and have spent a long time working on themselves.

Best wishes on your journey and welcome to the Forum :D

Joe & Charlie-discussing AA History and the process of the steps
http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=13

Don - telling his story
http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1786

Bill - telling his story
http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=2

 

[herondancer]

Hi Artemisia,

Thanks for bringing your story here. You've gotten lots of good advice to get started with. Best of all, you have the desire to change. It may wax and wane, but so long as you keep that as your goal, the next step will present itself.

I'm surprised the AA meetings you went to mentioned "God". It was my understanding that any such reference was to be to a "higher power", with each individual taking it on according to their own understanding. I thought the AA founders wanted it to be as open as possible, so no one wanting help would feel unwelcome.

Do read over the threads on diet. Your lack of motivation may be partly due to chemical imbalances . There are lots of stories on the net about people who've had miraculous improvements in mood when they cut the evil trinity of sugar, gluten, and dairy from their diets. You may have some rough days while your system adjusts, but then it's like the sun has come out! Add the EE program, and you'll be on your way.

Keep us posted.

Herondancer

 

[artemesia]

Thanks to everyone for responding and handing out advice.

I just started reading Myth of Sanity and today have time to begin the EE program. I haven't drank in 2 weeks (well, minus one night - just a reminder of how alcohol messes with my mind and emotions up!). Since quitting I feel so much happier and lighter. The little things don't bother me nearly as much. I can have someone (my partner) trying to argue with me and instead of me losing it instantly, I can calmly talk to him. Talk, not yell! Usually, as soon as I feel attacked, I get like a scared, cornered animal and will do anything to get out so I attack. I get the feeling of being attacked so quickly but I am starting to notice a difference. I guess I didn't realize the effects the alcohol carries on into the next day, whether hung-over or not. I also have been working on removing gluten which I feel is an issue with me (still in denial slightly - it's kind of like another addiction). Between all that and making sure I regularly take supplements such as fish oils, multi's and magnesium (especially magnesium - huge factor in people with depression and anger issues, ahem...) things are beginning to feel better. There is hope.

Thanks a lot, again.

 

[Seraphina]

Hey Artemisia! I appreciate your story. I kinda felt the same way about AA and NA. I wasn't an alcoholic, I was an addict, but I hated the only NA meeting so I went to AA. I agree on the cult like atmosphere, and the whole praise God attitude was really annoying. I got more out of the small outpatient rehabilitation groups than the AA groups. I felt like an outsider amongst outsiders.

I haven't stepped into a group meeting in two years (since finishing rehab) and I'm still sober. I've been focusing on getting to the root of my issues and heal from the inside out. AA is great for some maybe, but it's not the only way. I believe honest and wholehearted intent is key. I had enough of being a slave to the drugs and a zombie. I didn't even realize how sick I was until I finally felt human again.

AA focuses on the disease and wallows in it. It wants to be constantly reminded of the sickness as a scare tactic. I prefer true healing and growth. I don't want to stand up and announce that I'm an addict everyday, to me that keeps it's power over me. I want to move beyond, but I will thank my addiction once in a while for being the impetus of healing my soul.

"Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death." - Anais Nin

 

[herondancer]

I haven't stepped into a group meeting in two years (since finishing rehab) and I'm still sober. I've been focusing on getting to the root of my issues and heal from the inside out. AA is great for some maybe, but it's not the only way. I believe honest and wholehearted intent is key. I had enough of being a slave to the drugs and a zombie. I didn't even realize how sick I was until I finally felt human again.

Bravo to both of you!

That's it in a nutshell Seraphina. Here we call it "moral bankruptcy"

This is Mouravieff's term for a turning point in life where one constates that the external life can no longer provide meaning to life. This may or may not take the form of a crisis in external life but the essential idea is that formerly held inner 'A influence' values of worldly success, romance, learning, career and the like suffer an irrecoverable crash.

We may all suffer our crash in different forms. The valuable part is that it starts the search for deeper meaning and truth in our lives. You'll find an abundance of it here, plus all the support for sincere effort you could ever want. Keep on, keeping on!

Herondancer

 

[artemesia]

AA is great for some maybe, but it's not the only way.

AA focuses on the disease and wallows in it.

And that is one of the things I did not like about the meeting. They try to brainwash you into thinking it is the only way. I believe they have good intentions but just like yourself, I believe there are other ways. I would be what they call a "dry alcoholic" because I am stopping drinking on my own but I'm not following their rules (steps).

I started the breathing exercises today. My day started off feeling great. The weather is beautiful, the flowers are starting to come up through the snow. But then I did the breathing exercises and now I just feel tired, very edgy, irritable, and sad. I don't know if it's coincidence or what. I'm craving chocolate which means I need magnesium and that explains the depressed feeling.

Thanks for the support!

 

[StrangeCaptain]

Hello Artemisia,

12-step meetings were a major part of my life for nearly 10 years. I had some wonderful times there and would not have had the pre-requisite social skills to communicate on this forum nor with anyone else for that matter if not for my time there. I met some of the best souls I have ever known at those meetings.

Having said that, I would suggest, that if you can find another way to deal with your alcohol habit, take it. Especially if you are interested in the concepts presented on this forum and the related websites sott.net, cassiopaea.org, etc.

The people at the 12-step meetings are some of the most self-centered and narcisstically wounded in society, and they will admit this. The path to wisdom there is long and dangerous.

There are tools on this forum to address the physical, mental, and emotional aspects of substance abuse, especially if your habit is not severe. Yes... Judging the level of your habit could be problematic and subjective, but let us not get bogged down in that issue for the moment.

My point is that by treating the physical cravings as manifestation of candida overgrowth and/or wheat addiction combined with EE breathing for the emotional aspect and the already suggested psychological books for feeding the mind you might just find that your habit is ameliorating without having to center your entire life around its treatment.

I struggle with this issue of alcohol myself and found that a couple of weeks on the ultra-simple diet were rather refreshing though the body does produce some strange sensations when detoxing. In any case, best wishes in this matter...

 

[artemesia]

Patience,

I do hope you know I mean no disrespect towards AA. I am just venting about my experience and how I was frustrated, albeit I only gave it 4 meetings. Like I said, it definitely is for some, but perhaps not for all. Congratulations on the 10+(?) years of sobriety!!!

By the way, I love your quote:

"The black-throated wind keeps on pouring in
With its words of a lie that could almost be true
Ah, Mother American Night, here comes the light
I'm turning around That's what I'm gonna do -Grateful Dead"

...and I love your name "Patience." We all need more of that (at least I do!). I'm turning around, that's what I'm gonna do!!!

Peace and light!

 

[StrangeCaptain]

Patience,

I do hope you know I mean no disrespect towards AA. I am just venting about my experience and how I was frustrated, albeit I only gave it 4 meetings. Like I said, it definitely is for some, but perhaps not for all. Congratulations on the 10+(?) years of sobriety!!!

No problem... was just qualifying that I did have some positive experiences in case for some reason you belong there. I don't belong there anymore. And nope ain't got 10 years no more But not a biggie... I miss some of the people sometimes. Met some great folks...

But yeah... Sometimes addicts need a "training ground" like that because they are so dysfunctional they can not really function in society very well without having somewhere a bit more insulated while they make the mistakes they were supposed to have made at age 8 or whatever. In theory, there are other more mature members around to help them assimilate their lessons into something useful.

Anyway... I did not want to entirely slam the door on it if it is a resource you actually need. Best wishes in this...

 

[Buddy]

Hi artemisia.

When you're down and can't find motivation to do anything, you always have at least one thing you can work with: attention. I don't remember where I first got this inspiration, but it came from one of Laura's posts that mentioned that we always, at least, have some attention to work with, and with THAT, a person can do a lot of Work.

You could read the following post and the replies down to Laura's response and then think about it all.
Simone weil: Atheist to Christian

Afterward, you could also listen to the Prayer of the Soul and ASK for whatever you need at this moment.


I'll bet you'll soon feel enough Will to at least start your self-observation practice. You could begin that practice by noticing who and what automatically attracts your attention. Who and what you automatically extend your attention to. Who and what you exchange attention with and the 'feelings' that accompany this experience. Compare the things that have automatic attachments to your attention and think in terms of the nature, extent, quality and degree of attention - anything you can think of. You could also write everything that you notice, down in a notebook or journal.

The child eventually gets weaned from many things but the attention-factor rarely gets the same treatment. The consequence to an adult is that, deprived of any method for handling his desire for attention, he continues to be confused by it and it usually remains primitive throughout life. Attention can be hostile or friendly and yet, still fulfill the appetite for attention. Since the object of attention can be an object, cult, person, idea, interest, etc., people have not yet identified the common factor of attention that offers a more useful perspective of what may be going on.

It will be very useful to bring attention under volitional control. You could practice extending your attention towards someone or something and then drawing it back and extending it somewhere else.

All this Work with no more effort than to read something, listen to something, pay attention to something and maybe write something. :)