Metronidazole for dogs - to give or not to give

[Keit]

There is a recent research that shows that Metronidazole can literally obliterate dog's gut flora, and it's very hard to restore. This video explains what happens and also provides several alternate solutions for problems that are usually being treated with Metronidazole.

Here's a link to the study mentioned in the video.

https://www.facebook.com/doctor.karen.becker/posts/10158702815872748

 

[Voyageur]

Well, that is a pretty interesting watch-out for Metronidazole, and pretty serious based on the findings. Two of their way forwards were Diagel:

Inactive Ingredients

Carob, Chamomile Oil, Cinnamon Oil, Clove Oil, Cranberry Powder, Microencapsulated Bead Agents, Miglyol, Natural Flavors, Oat Bran, Orange Fiber, Potassium Chloride, Psyllium Seed Husk, Rice Bran Extract, Sesquiterpenoid, Silicon Dioxide, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Sorbitan Tristearate, Stevia.

And animal gut testing (that sound good) from Animalbiom:

At AnimalBiome, we help you understand your pet’s gut microbiome so you can lead them down the path to a healthier, happier life.

I'll keep this in mind now that I know. Thank you, Keit.

 

[Voyageur]

Was looking at the Vet, Dr. Karen Becker's site for respiratory support, and it is not specifically mentioned in her Shop by Health Issue menu - was thinking perhaps NAC would be helpful. Here is one comment, albeit a human study on a Pet Health products page:

N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is a derivative of the naturally occurring amino acid, cysteine. NAC has an extensive history of use as a mucolytic (breaks down mucous) in the treatment of acute and chronic lung conditions such as emphysema, bronchitis, chronic asthma, and cystic fibrosis. It directly splits the sulfur linkages of mucoproteins thereby reducing viscosity of bronchial and lung secretions. As a result it improves bronchial and lung function, reduces cough, and improves oxygen saturation in the blood.

In detailed analysis of 39 human trials it has been concluded that oral NAC reduces the risk of exacerbations (severe worsening) and improves symptoms in patients with chronic bronchitis compared with a placebo.

In addition to its benefits to respiratory health, NAC is serves as a nutritional precursor for the synthesis of glutathione, which is a powerful antioxidant. Glutathione also detoxifies chemicals into less harmful compounds. N-Acetyl Cysteine has also been shown to be effective in treating liver failure and detoxifying heavy metals from the body.

Is there a better alternative (elderly female 12 who has had past experience with pneumonia (had been on Cefasteptin at the time, which may have saved her), and she has periods of heavy breathing - congested phlegmy sounding at times). She sleeps well, quietens down, and seems to struggle at other times breathing-wise; up and down. She is getting laser therapy primarily for her spine/back legs - and has improved recently, and somewhat significantly with her stability. She is on supplements from her other holistic Vet (liver support and Three Seeds). She has a long-term thyroid issue and receives 0.3 mg of Synthroid twice a day (was not comfortable with this and yet the blood work did not change the fact).

Her diet was raw food for much of her life until the pnemonia, and upon advice from the holistic vet we modified it to cooking for her (meat with an aim on Chinese hot/cold aspects), and then reintroduced her back to raw food, for a while, yet she was having trouble with it and again switched her off it for a modified no grain diet (and cooking). She likes grass at times, which produces the usual associated issues, however her stools are generally consistent and she is urinating well without problem.

Near three weeks ago (when away) my partner called me in distress and had consulted a local Vet (they have her history), and it appeared that she was failing quickly and a decision was made to help her on her way. Her younger doggie buddies were no less knowing of her failing as was evident when I got back - it sure looked like her time. So stayed with her and eventually nudged her outside, which she responded to. She started resting and by the morning she was improved; eating, drinking and she had regained stability and spark - still under some distress; breathing and stability. It is possible she had had a mini stroke, and this can happen, and it may have happened before this relapse. Currently, she still wants to be here and is doing a mighty fine job of convincing; walking with the other dogs sometimes (attempts to run), excitement, and always happy to greet us. Appetite is smooth. So it is a monitoring phase and readjustment phase, if possible.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Keit]

Is there a better alternative (elderly female 12 who has had past experience with pneumonia (had been on Cefasteptin at the time, which may have saved her), and she has periods of heavy breathing - congested phlegmy sounding at times).

Well, NAC is a good option in general, and it may be hard to advise anything beyond that without knowing her history, her present clinical symptoms, what exactly happened, and what was prescribed before. Because it's possible that she experienced a respiratory distress, and if so, it's important to understand what caused it (i.e doing a proper examination), and then prescribe treatment. For example, if it was a pulmonary edema, diuretics could help with alleviating the distress. Or bronchodilators, like theophylline, if it was a case of chronic inflammation. But then in her case respiratory distress could be also cardiogenic, so additional diagnostic could be done, and certain drugs would be prescribed for maintenance.

 

[Voyageur]

Well, NAC is a good option in general, and it may be hard to advise anything beyond that without knowing her history, her present clinical symptoms, what exactly happened, and what was prescribed before. Because it's possible that she experienced a respiratory distress, and if so, it's important to understand what caused it (i.e doing a proper examination), and then prescribe treatment. For example, if it was a pulmonary edema, diuretics could help with alleviating the distress. Or bronchodilators, like theophylline, if it was a case of chronic inflammation. But then in her case respiratory distress could be also cardiogenic, so additional diagnostic could be done, and certain drugs would be prescribed for maintenance.

Thanks for your comments, Keit, and I'll get the exact clinical details related.

The drugs prescribed have been what has been mentioned, however she is receiving a shot for arthritic issues once ever three weeks (the name escapes me); she does have discospondylosis (I've x-ray shots here at home), and this has implications impacting nerve connections, which has bearing on her hind end stability and knee bending (and she loses control). This is also where the laser treatments improve matters. She had been prescribed CBD, and alternatively THC, and yet the THC was deemed a bit much (observed at home), so after originally raising the the dose it was lowered down (this was a good 5 months ago) and that sits on the sidelines now. CBD has been curtailed as more recently (a number of weeks) she has been on 1/2 tablet of deramaxx 75 for pain, and this actually seems to be helping, although it may inhibit blood flow to some extent (as recalled) - inflammation being a factor with both her spine/hind end, and it seems her breathing passageways.

So, aside from her hind end - rear legs and knees (arthritic), it is some type of impingement on her nervous system relating to her discospondylosis that effects her rear stability (it may cause breathing issues when it is active).

 

[Voyageur]

But then in her case respiratory distress could be also cardiogenic, so additional diagnostic could be done, and certain drugs would be prescribed for maintenance.

Laryngeal Paralysis was what was indicated, and read about it, and some things seem clear with her and others not so much:

What causes laryngeal paralysis?​

In the majority of cases of laryngeal paralysis, the cause is idiopathic (unknown). Trauma to the throat or neck can cause laryngeal paralysis. Tumors or space occupying lesions in the neck or chest area can also cause this condition. Endocrine (hormonal diseases) such as hypothyroidism and Cushing's disease have also been associated with laryngeal paralysis in dogs. Some dogs are born with congenital laryngeal paralysis.

Recent studies have led to the conclusion that most dogs with idiopathic laryngeal paralysis have a neuromuscular disease and that this is one of the first signs of the disease. A new term, geriatric onset laryngeal paralysis and polyneuropathy (GOLPP), has been developed to describe this.

Whatever the cause, nerve paralysis rapidly leads to laryngeal muscle wasting (atrophy).

What are the clinical signs of laryngeal paralysis?​

The clinical signs of laryngeal paralysis vary widely. Unfortunately, laryngeal paralysis is probably more common than it is diagnosed. It usually affects middle aged and older dogs. Medium and large breeds are more likely to develop the condition. One of the primary reasons the condition is under-diagnosed is due to the fact that the initial signs often only involve a shortage of breath, noisy breathing, or a cough.

What seems to be helping, because she has bounced back remarkably, has been the laser treatments (this includes the throat/neck areas).

 

[Keit]

Laryngeal Paralysis was what was indicated, and read about it, and some things seem clear with her and others not so much:

If that's what was diagnosed, then indeed rest and oxygen are a solution. But it depends on the level of the paralysis. If larynx is too restricted and you see the tongue or other mucous areas getting blue, then it is an emergency situation, and you have to rush to the vet. They may inject corticosteroids and/or diuretics to deal with the edema syndrome. Some other steps may be taken to provide the dog with the air.

Unfortunately, the onset can be sudden, and laser treatments sound like a good prophylactic measure. Maybe also do a diagnostic or a check up in order to see if there are any structural changes or neurological deficiencies that could contribute to this.

 

[Voyageur]

If larynx is too restricted and you see the tongue or other mucous areas getting blue, then it is an emergency situation, and you have to rush to the vet.

Nothing like this has been noted, thankfully.

Maybe also do a diagnostic or a check up in order to see if there are any structural changes or neurological deficiencies that could contribute to this.

Yes, will monitor. Here were the initial photos of the discospondylosis: