Michael Collins - FIVE STARS!

[Laura]

The other night Ark and I had a rare urge to watch a movie. We asked the kids to pick one for us that we might like and they selected "Michael Collins."

What was shocking to me was to see the clearly Pathocratic way the British government responded to the Irish push for independence. I couldn't help but wonder if some of the incidents that happened in Ireland back then won't be happening in the US in the near future. I hope everyone will watch this movie and imagine what it will feel like when the government begins to violently suppress dissent the same way the British government suppressed the Irish. Imagine a tank rolling onto a football field in the middle of a game and opening fire on the players and audience!

Yes, that IS what the British government did.

After watching the movie, I went on a net search to see what others were saying about this one.

This is the Michael Collins Web Page. It has a photo of Michael that shows Liam Neeson to have been the perfect actor for the part!

http://www2.cruzio.com/~sbarrett/mcollins.htm

Then there is this page about the movie: http://michaelcollins.warnerbros.com/

Another movie site says:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117039/

Despite containing several brutal scenes of violence, the film was given a very lenient 'PG' rating in Ireland mainly because of it's historical context. The censor issued a press statement defending his decision claiming the film was a landmark in Irish cinema and that he believed "because of the subject matter, parents should have the option of making their own decision as to whether their children should see the film or not". The Film subsequently became the second most successful movie ever released in Ireland.

This is another good site with some background history: http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/michael_collins.htm

I HIGHLY recommend this film to everyone just to get a good feel for what life may be like in the not-too-distant future as well as to see what's really been going on here on the BBM for a very long time...

 

[Guest]

I really liked this film. Neesom fit the role like a glove, and was the best choice to play it IMO. In late Nov. 1973 a triad of dictators ruled Greece, and when students demanded elections tanks did roll down the University gates and there were deaths, while many were hauled off and tortured. My family and I arrived a few days later by ocean liner and even as a 9 year-old the absolute atmosphere of fear made an impression on me.

I remember seeing the secret police walk the streets and at some point shouted at my father "who are these stupid dictators anyway?" He clamped his hands over my mouth and whispered that we would be shot if I said anything more. He was really scared. People were walking quickly with heads bowed and those who had left years before to emmigrate to the US and now returned were in shock.

If you consider how many jundas are in power today, including corporate colonialism, such a thing is not rare as some complacent westerners would like to believe. What is funny in a tragic kind of way is that considering the truth of historical and present-day prevalence of pathocratic regimes is a sign of tin-foil hat lunacy in some societies.

 

[Johnno]

It isn't much different to the current Israel/Palestine deal either. I've often thought that Ireland was a "trial run" for the Israeli experience. After all, Ireland is where the "terrorism" phenomena/meme was first experienced.

Yet you look at Ireland today and it's one of the most dynamic,exciting and creative places in the EU. Even downunder, it's the place to not miss out on in Europe.

I haven't seen Michael Collins so will hire it today if possible, unfortunately I don't have Joe to add some extra insightful observations!

 

[Laura]

unfortunately I don't have Joe to add some extra insightful observations!

Yes, Joe and his experiences and the experiences of his family do make it "up close and personal" for us. But then, the fact that all our friends and group members are scattered across the globe make just about everything "up close and personal." People I love are everywhere...

 

[vinny]

It isn't much different to the current Israel/Palestine deal either. I've often thought that Ireland was a "trial run" for the Israeli experience. After all, Ireland is where the "terrorism" phenomena/meme was first experienced.

well isn't that funny. (peculiar. not haha) I actually met a few Israelis several weeks ago, and I thought I would take the opportunity to casually/sneakily 'sound them out' about how they perceived the political situation in their own country. The response was interesting: basically the view was that the 'Palestinian terrorism', was merely a bit of a nuisance, and he directly equated it with the northern ireland conflict - this guy said, "you have the IRA back in England? well, its just like that. you know, every now and then some idiot plants a bomb somewhere". It was just something that occasionally happened on the news, to other people. He didn't seem to think it was remotely important, or connected to real life. It didn't affect him.

 

[Johnno]

He didn't seem to think it was remotely important, or connected to real life. It didn't affect him.

I had a similar sort of feeling after the Cronulla riots in Sydney, whilst it was only about 70km away, it might well have been in London, Los Angeles or Buenos Aries. It wasn't of some sort of nihilism as the above guy....... but it seemed remotely foreign from me.

It was only after going to work and finding out that the sentiment of the rioters, was also the true ugly undercurrent of a LOT of Australians attitudes.....did it really hit home. John Howard's aggressive (xenophobic?) policies had tapped into a ready made voter base...... or perhaps he had tapped into the uglier side of their psyche?

 

[aurora]

Yes, it was a very informative movie and Liam Neeson did act well. Ther is also the movie Some Mother's son.
http://www.imdb.com/Reviews/64/6471
In 1979, when Margaret Thatcher assumed the role of England's Prime Minister, one of her stated aims was to crush the IRA and its associated "terrorism." Her "Northern Ireland Solution", as it became known, included three principles: Isolation, Criminalization, and Demoralization. Those members of the IRA captured for terrorist acts were to be treated as criminals, not soldiers. Prisons were to be used to break morale, not create martyrs.
On March 1, 1981, IRA prisoner Bobby Sands began a hunger strike which would earn him world-wide notoriety.

 

[Keit]

He didn't seem to think it was remotely important, or connected to real life. It didn't affect him.

Actually, I have to admit, that in my everyday life, it's also "doesn't affect me that much" if I dont intentionaly think about it after reading articles on SOTT. And by "affect" I mean - that there is no indication what so ever, that less then 100 kilometers from the center of the country, people live in created hell. But it does have a certain affect, when I am taking a bus and see an arab with a big bag getting on the same bus. . I can't avoid but to think: "Maybe..." and watch his every move and think what I'll have to do if I'll spot that there is an immediate danger. And only then I realise the true horror of the situation. It's not that we are all so used to constant bag searches by securuty while entering the mall, supermarket or office buildings, that it's feels awkward when outside Israel we don't have to show our bags to anyone. Is that first thought that crosses everyone's mind when they see a young arab with a large bag: "Maybe..." When actually, maybe he one of Tel-Aviv university students returning to the dorms after weekend at home. The true terror of the situation, that our thoughts reveal what is concealed from our eyes in our every day life. That we are taught to see them as enemies.

 

[Johnno]

He didn't seem to think it was remotely important, or connected to real life. It didn't affect him.

Actually, I have to admit, that in my everyday life, it's also "doesn't affect me that much" if I dont intentionaly think about it after reading articles on SOTT. And by "affect" I mean - that there is no indication what so ever, that less then 100 kilometers from the center of the country, people live in created hell. But it does have a certain affect, when I am taking a bus and see an arab with a big bag getting on the same bus. . I can't avoid but to think: "Maybe..." and watch his every move and think what I'll have to do if I'll spot that there is an immediate danger. And only then I realise the true horror of the situation. It's not that we are all so used to constant bag searches by securuty while entering the mall, supermarket or office buildings, that it's feels awkward when outside Israel we don't have to show our bags to anyone. Is that first thought that crosses everyone's mind when they see a young arab with a large bag: "Maybe..." When actually, maybe he one of Tel-Aviv university students returning to the dorms after weekend at home. The true terror of the situation, that our thoughts reveal what is concealed from our eyes in our every day life. That we are taught to see them as enemies.

I have a similar experience. In Australia we have a large amount of those close circuit cameras in public places. Arriving at Paris airport, I wondered where all the cameras were, I felt a similar awkwardness.

 

[Guest]

On March 1, 1981, IRA prisoner Bobby Sands began a hunger strike which would earn him world-wide notoriety.

I wouldn't say going on hunger-strike earned him notoriety. There's actually a street in the Iranian capital(forgive my geographical ignorance, although is it Tehrahn?) named Bobby Sands Street,as an interesting footnote.
Gandhi was greatly influenced by Terence MacSweeney, Lord Mayor of Cork, my home city, who died in hunger strike in a London prison in the early 1920s. Though don't assume I'm necessarily equating Bobby Sands and the IRA of then with the one of Collins. TOBH even though I've a history degree and am Irish, I'm not too knowledgeable about the North. I think with many of us here, we turn off the switch in the mind relating to Norn Iron, as it was just a relentless media downer....Bad news on the hour, every hour.

 

[tatou]

On the same theme (Irish struggle against the British Empire in the 1920's) I recently watched "The Wind That Shakes The Barley" by Ken Loach and strongly recommend it.
It's terrible to see that every time the People choose to take their fate into their own hands, the pathocrats will smash their intent.
Although I never checked it myself, I was told twice that during the Spanish civil war, the only time the Republicans and the Franquists fought side by side was against Anarchists communities in Catalunya...
I remember seeing "Michael Collins" in the Lighthouse Cinema in Dublin when it came out (93 /94?), unfortunately my English was quite poor back then and I should really watch it again.
I lived several years in Dublin in the 90's and I remember talking to Northern Irish people about growing up there being Catholic and although they had suffered the presence of the British Army, still they were not big fans of the modern IRA.
From what I could understand, what had once been an army of resistance against the oppressor has become, in large parts, a mafia, recruiting thugs who wouldn't be able to do much else in a normal society.
Speaking of the devil, it has been said that MAFIA stands for "Morte Alla Francia Invasore e Assassina" (Death to invading and murdering France), a movement of resistance in Sicily in early 1800's against the troops of Napoleon. Those rebels were supported by the locals but when the French eventually left, they decided that to have weapons, a network, and goods provided by the working people isn't at all a bad situation.
Everything gets ponerized.
Isn't that the purpose of Counter Intelligence Programs?

 

[Joe]

I lived several years in Dublin in the 90's and I remember talking to Northern Irish people about growing up there being Catholic and although they had suffered the presence of the British Army, still they were not big fans of the modern IRA.
From what I could understand, what had once been an army of resistance against the oppressor has become, in large parts, a mafia, recruiting thugs who wouldn't be able to do much else in a normal society.

I don't think it is true that the IRA gave up their war for an easy life selling drugs, although the media attempted to portray this. It is not really reasonable to think that a group of people who decided to fight an enemy in defence of their communities would suddenly turn to preying on those communities by selling drugs to them. The seeding of drugs and associated criminality into Northern Ireland's communities was largely facilitated by the British and was part of their ongoing strategy to contain the rebellion in their last official colony. The Brits never did play fair.

For an insight into the ideals that drove members of the IRA, the following is a statement published by the surviving members of the hunger strikes that did indeed gain Bobby Sands and others international notoriety:

"There were several reasons given by our comrades for going on hunger strike. One was because we had no choice, no other means of securing a principled solution to the four year protest. Another, and of fundamental importance, was to advance the Irish people's right to liberty. We believe that the age-old struggle for Irish self-determination and freedom had been immeasurably advanced by this hunger strike and therefore we claim a massive political victory. The hunger strikers, by their selflessness, have politicised a very substantial section of the Irish nation and exposed the shallow, unprincipled nature of the Irish partionist bloc... Lastly we reaffirm our commitment to the achievement of the five demands, by whatever means we believe necessary and expedient. We rule nothing out.

Under no circumstances are we going to devalue the memory of our dead comrades by submitting ourselves to a dehumanising and degrading regime."

As for Michael Collins, the details of his murder bear some very stark parallels to the murder of JFK. Due to his nature and character, he presented a very clear threat to the British agenda in Ireland, so he met the same fate as so many other true champions of the ordinary people over the course of human history.

Joe

 

[tatou]

I don't think it is true that the IRA gave up their war for an easy life selling drugs, although the media attempted to portray this. It is not really reasonable to think that a group of people who decided to fight an enemy in defence of their communities would suddenly turn to preying on those communities by selling drugs to them.

Hi Joe,

Looking back at my comment, you'll see I didn't actually mention selling drugs.
My point was: do you not think that an armed movement, however justified it may be, would eventually attract its share of psychopathic characters?
Is any movement exempt of ponerology?

 

[Joe]

My point was: do you not think that an armed movement, however justified it may be, would eventually attract its share of psychopathic characters? Is any movement exempt of ponerology?

No movement is exempt, but I don't think it necessarily happens by chance, and in the case of the IRA there is evidence to suggest that ponerization was actively facilitated by the infiltration of British agents into the organisation. The actions of the British security establishment in the name of the IRA was also largely to blame for the demonisation of the IRA in the minds of the people, both in Ireland and the UK.

Joe

 

[tatou]

No doubt.