Monks lowering crime, 'Power of Attraction'

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
twilite said:
However, if we accept that all of our thoughts, words, and actions create vibrations and these vibrations will resonate with vibrations of similar frequency, then the attitude with which we vote, and that we believe we are voting for the concepts we believe we are voting for, can make a difference. Like a pebble dropped into the Ocean, as some say, will send infinite ripples which will intermingle with others' ripples, and collectively, if they all get going in the same direction, can make big waves.

Hi twilite, I think reading this post http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1922.msg10630#msg10630 might help clarify your thoughts on exactly what it means to 'make a difference' - and how perceiving reality as what it is not - objectively - only adds to the 'chaos of the system'. In other words, all the wishing in the world not only doesn't make it so - it makes it worse if that wishing is not aligned with objective reality. The objective reality of Obama has yet to be seen - but the devil is, as always, in the details.
 
Thank you very much anart, you have turned on some lights and rekindled some old flames. In some deep way I understand the post you have recommended and it does make clearer my thoughts, or rather my goal. My thoughts, well they will probably just swing me around in circles until I can be an objective observer of them as well. However, the teachings I have had make me question something from that post
"Our universe seems to be made up of matter/energy and of consciousness." (sorry if the quote does not work, I do not see how to do it... to get in in the box :huh:) I believe I come from the third way, of the yogis. Here I have been taught that matter is but light and energy and is part of the illusion, and that consciousness, as it were, would be our true selves, that which knows the truth and is one with it. I have read that there are great yogis who are so free from the binds that tie us, that they can be in two places at once. Matter is a toy for them.
Last year I read The Morning of the Magicians, by Louis Pauweis and Jaque Bergier. They tell of a meeting they had with a modern alchemist. The only secret he would reveal was (I just looked through the book to find the exact quote, alas, it is there somewhere, but, as I remember the gist of it, they reported he said) The only way an alchemist can change matter is for the alchemist to first change himself. This information leads me to believe that matter is a construct of the mind and it's conditioning, but our consciousness, when we find it, can do... who knows? And, as the devil is always in it... eh, there's another wall. This mouse does not find the cheese today, but still looks for the balance of energy that will eliminate walls and find there is no need for cheese.

William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell... The angel becomes a devil and the devil becomes an angel.

But the motivation for my post on voting... There was a study done. Large groups of Tibetan Buddhist monks were brought to major cities in the USA, and while they were there, in meditation, the crime rates dropped. It seems their collective consciousness, working as one, brought change immediately.
 
twilite said:
But the motivation for my post on voting... There was a study done. Large groups of Tibetan Buddhist monks were brought to major cities in the USA, and while they were there, in meditation, the crime rates dropped. It seems their collective consciousness, working as one, brought change immediately.

Hi Twilite. Did you just believe this study because you read it somewhere and just accepted it because if fitted into your beliefs?
Or did you actually see the data for yourself, study it, try to check out who conducted it, corroborate whether a load of Tibetan monks actually did go to the usa, when, which cities? What type of crimes dropped etc?
If you didn’t, then why accept it as true?
 
Peam said:
twilite said:
But the motivation for my post on voting... There was a study done. Large groups of Tibetan Buddhist monks were brought to major cities in the USA, and while they were there, in meditation, the crime rates dropped. It seems their collective consciousness, working as one, brought change immediately.

Hi Twilite. Did you just believe this study because you read it somewhere and just accepted it because if fitted into your beliefs?
Or did you actually see the data for yourself, study it, try to check out who conducted it, corroborate whether a load of Tibetan monks actually did go to the usa, when, which cities? What type of crimes dropped etc?
If you didn’t, then why accept it as true?

And maybe in another city elsewhere the crime rates increased? If it is true that the monks went there, what happen to the general crime rates?

It could be true that the crime rates dropped in one particular city but maybe the general law manage to increase it in another city leaving the crime rates at the same level for the planet.
 
Hi Twilite. Did you just believe this study because you read it somewhere and just accepted it because if fitted into your beliefs?
Or did you actually see the data for yourself, study it, try to check out who conducted it, corroborate whether a load of Tibetan monks actually did go to the usa, when, which cities? What type of crimes dropped etc?
If you didn’t, then why accept it as true?

Yes, Peam, I read the results of the study in a magazine article, maybe Time magazine, or National Geographic. I don't remember, it was some years ago. However, in my search for some evidence of it on the internet, I found some corroborating examples

The Impact Of Collective Conciousness On World Peace

Dr. John Davies tells the story of a physician in a Lebanese village in the Chouf mountains who taught his patients to meditate in 1981 during the worst of the Lebanese Civil War. The village had been subjected to continuous bombing, as had the whole area; but when one percent of its population began meditating, the bombs stopped falling on Dr. Tony Nader’s village although the violence continued in the surrounding villages, both Christian and Muslim. The phenomenon could not be explained by either the residents of the village or the people who were independently responsible for tracking the bombings.

Dr. Davies has taught and conducted research at Harvard University, the University of New England, Maharishi International University, and Murdoch University in his native Australia. He holds degrees in law, psychology and political psychology/international relations. As Co-Director of the Partners in Conflict Project and adjunct faculty in the Department of Government and Politics at the University of Maryland, Dr. Davies is an internationally recognized expert in the field of Conflict Management and has published detailed research on the effects of transcendental meditation on levels of violence throughout the world. His interest in the role of meditation on instances of violence and terrorism was piqued by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi’s theories on the individual and collective impact of meditation on the collective consciousness.

In the 1970s, Maharishi said that, “just as the consciousness of an individual determines the quality of his thought and behavior, so also there exists another type of consciousness for a society as a whole; a collective consciousness for each family, city, state, or nation, having its own reality and the possibility of development” (Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, 1977). He also described the interrelationship of the individual and collective consciousness as being reciprocal, and he predicted that if one percent of a population of more than 10,000 people practiced meditation it would have an impact on the collective consciousness of a society. This impact, he posited, would result in a reduction of violence in the community and on armed conflict throughout the world.

Earlier theories of collective consciousness were put forth by such leading social scientists as Gustav Fechner, William James, Emile Durkheim and Carl Jung.


The Maharishi proposed that “all occurrences of violent conflict arise from the accumulation of collective stress” (Davies, John L., Alexander, Charles N., 2004). The most fundamental technique for reducing stress is the practice of Transcendental Meditation which is experienced as a silent, peaceful state of heightened awareness that has been closely related to higher EEG coherence and with reduced anxiety and hostility. Dr. Davies said that if you have a large group of people meditating together, you can have “constructive interference. … a common phenomenon in physics with waves of any type” (Anderson, Sandra, 2005).

In three international studies conducted in Fairfield, Iowa (1983-1984); The Hague, Netherlands (1984-1985); and Washington, D.C. (1985), “there was a highly significant decrease in international conflict during each of the three assemblies (36%, 24%, and 35%, respectively); a 72% drop in international terrorism … and a significant increase in the World Index of stock prices during the three assemblies taken together.” (Orme-Johnson, et. al., 1989). In another study, a group of over 7,000 (constituting the square root of one percent of the world’s population) assembled in the United States and “was found to be associated with reduction of armed conflict on a global scale (e.g., Nicaragua, Afghanistan), compared to immediately prior and subsequent periods and to the same period during the previous year (Orme-Johnson, et. al., 1988).


Between 1983 and 1985, Dr. Davies and his colleagues conducted a study that brought together seven different groups of meditators in Jerusalem that were, according to the Maharishi’s theory, large enough to create an impact in southern Lebanon, where the civil war was raging, as well as in Israel. During these periods of meditation, average fatalities in Lebanon dropped by more than 70% (the probability that these results were due to chance was less than one in a hundred billion,) and in Israel the level of violence (crime, car accidents and fires) dropped significantly. The only reference point to explain these phenomena is the meditation intervention, and the implication is that “when you have a coherence in the collective consciousness, it creates an environment that allows people to approach issues differently.” (Anderson, S., 2005). People came together in a spirit of cooperation and partnership (an increase of 66%,) and progress was made in mediation and agreement between Lebanon, Syria and Israel. Unfortunately, when the meditating group disbanded or the numbers dropped significantly below the threshold size, this progress fell apart.

The one percent paradigm has been proven to have an impact under conditions of rigorous scientific testing (Studies) with statistical controls for a number of variables that affect violent crime and quality of life, among others. These studies have consistently shown that one percent of the population can affect a decrease in violence and an improved quality of life through daily meditation.

Dr. Davies feels that we need to recognize the value of the spiritual approach to bringing about peace and “encourage meditation and prayer groups for peace in all traditions” (Anderson, S., 2005.) He works across religious lines and recognizes the

There was reliable data because the Lebanese police kept detailed daily statistics on how many people were killed or injured. Precise predictions about the outcome were made to the international press and a panel of independent scientists. The timing was dictated solely by funding and availability of the participating meditators. Statistical controls were put in place for changes in weather, holidays in both countries, and fluctuations in the meditating group size

integrity of all beliefs – Christian, Muslim, Vedic, Jewish, Yogic, Buddhist, Taoist – in working together to create peace.

_http://www.whenonepercent.org/collective-consciousness-%20john-davies.html

and:
Based on the results of the study, the steady state gain (long-term effect) associated with a permanent group of 4,000 participants in the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi programs was calculated as a 48% reduction in HRA crimes in the District of Columbia.

_http://www.istpp.org/crime_prevention/

And maybe in another city elsewhere the crime rates increased? If it is true that the monks went there, what happen to the general crime rates?

It could be true that the crime rates dropped in one particular city but maybe the general law manage to increase it in another city leaving the crime rates at the same level for the planet.

:/Hmmm... good point, Namaste. Even in these studies cited above, they put forth that planet wide, crime rates decreased, but only based on specific geographic areas. What was happening elsewhere?

These questions bring to light a contradiction in my learning... Rumi will say "If you tie two birds together, they cannot fly, even if they have four wings."...  but Lao Tzu will say, "You can tie two birds together and they can fly, if they become one."
 
twilite said:
Yes, Peam, I read the results of the study in a magazine article, maybe Time magazine, or National Geographic. I don't remember, it was some years ago. However, in my search for some evidence of it on the internet, I found some corroborating examples

I’m not sure how these ‘corroborating examples’ actually corroborate the claim that loads of Tibetan Buddhist monks were brought to major cities in the USA and asked to meditate.

Who would have the financial resources for such an expensive study as bringing all those monks over to the USA, setting them up in accomodation, food etc?

Why couldn’t they try to influence anything via meditation from a few thousand miles distance and stay in Tibet? Is there a ‘radius of influence’ or something when it comes to meditation?

and why would anyone want to influence anyone else?
 
Twilite said:
The Maharishi proposed that “all occurrences of violent conflict arise from the accumulation of collective stress” (Davies, John L., Alexander, Charles N., 2004).

In a society where several percent of the population is made of psychopaths, occurrences of violent conflict do not always arise from the accumulation of collective stress, another major contributor is the behaviour of pathological individuals by itself. One ca be stressed or not, the psychopaths will keep on spreading misery, violence and suffering.

The correlation between praying and the state of the world has been addressed by Laura in one chapter of The Secret History of the World. Here is the excerpt :

SHOTW said:
Don't forget the power of prayer," we are told by our religious leaders, or "positive thinking," as the New Age gurus tell us. The only problem is, prayers and positive thinking do not seem to have improved the world very much on the occasions when it is certain that nearly every human being was praying for a certain outcome.

Jesus promised: "If any two of you shall agree and ask... it shall be done." (Matt 18:19) That's a promise. What do you want or need? Just ask!

But it doesn't work and we see it!

Over sixty million people died because God didn't do what everybody thought he should do. C.S. Lewis struggled with this issue in the latter part of his life. He saw clearly that, before World War II, practically every human being on the planet was praying to Jesus, God the Father, the Virgin Mary, Allah, Buddha and whoever else you can name or mention, so all the bases were covered that this terrible thing would not happen. The memory of the previous "Great War" was still fresh in the mind of mankind. They remembered the horrible carnage and vowed, never again!

In the end, after the mightiest cry of prayer in human memory, rising from the earth, almost one-third of the world was uninhabitable and sixty-five million human beings were dead. Are we to think that this was God's answer to prayer? It certainly doesn't give us much hope for the “power of positive thinking.

Think about it.
 
Peam,
I have admitted I don't remember where I read about the Buddhist monk mediation study and can find no evidence of it. However, there are many Buddhist monks and lamas already in the USA. As far as financing such a study, there are grants, from the private sector and the government to fund studies like these. The studies I found corroborate the theory that a collective consciousness can bring about change.

Quote from Peam
Why couldn’t they try to influence anything via meditation from a few thousand miles distance and stay in Tibet? Is there a ‘radius of influence’ or something when it comes to meditation? ?

I would say because of the Law of Resonance:
Like energies attract like particles due to their electromagnetic
fields; so whatever we send out in thought, word or action, is amplified and returned
to us.
(Jasmuheen)

The Law of Resonance has a relational character, i.e. expresses the way in which two or more apparently different things or phenomena selectively communicate (are linked), being integrated into an unitary Whole.
The links which unite all things in the Universe (physical objects, mental processes, psychic phenomena, spiritual levels, in other words everything manifested) have as basis the process of Resonance.
It is very important to understand that resonance starts only when the frequency of the two systems (the receiving and the emitting) are very close or identical.
During resonance, the cosmic frequencies (vibratory energies) that are continually emitted as cosmic waves by interstellar centers, galaxies or planets can be received by the correspondent foci of the human subtle body in the same way that a radio set can be tuned to different radio frequencies.
(Dinu Roman)

It might also be called The Law of Attraction:

The Law of Attraction states that all that is like unto itself will be drawn to it. In other words, all things similar in nature will naturally gravitate to one another and magnetise one another into their own field. This applies to all things in the Universe; it applies to thought. All energy, and thought is energy, is magnetic to those things with a similar vibration.
(David Payne)]

The meditators will, Buddhist monks or not, and we will, meditating or not, attract the energy they and we resonate with to the source of the emitted frequencies. It does not send the energy to another place, though this is also possible through a different method.
Thank you for your comments Peam, they force me to question my beliefs and to distill what I have learned and assimilated... Question everything, doubt nothing. Learn from everything.

Belibaste,
With deference I must say... Meditation is different than prayer. In meditation there is no desperate wanting or longing for God's help. In meditation, one tries to find God, to be partners with, to be one with the Source... to quiet the mind and it's desires. Maybe the world wide prayers you mention were too little, too late to overturn the accumulated energies that were attracted by what Wilhem Reich called mass psychosis that has persisted for thousands of years. Maybe people don't know how to pray...they don't know that included in the prayer, one must offer sincerely the fruits of the prayer and the fruits of one's actions to God, to the Universal Will, without regard to one's self. Prayer born of desperation, fear and panic will not work. And what were they doing, thinking, saying, when they weren't praying? It is what it is, Fihi ma Fihi, because we believe it and make it so... No?
 
Hi twilite,

Have you read The Wave and Adventure series or Secret History?  I ask because you seem rather invested in new age concepts that have been proven to be not much more than dreaming and sleep.  Perhaps you could take the time to read the 'new age and cointelpro' section of the forum and get up to speed on this particular flavor of distraction?
 
The Formidable Power of Positive Thoughts


“Some men see things and helplessly say: ‘Why?’.
But I dream things that never were and say:
‘Why not?’.” - George Bernard Shaw

All thoughts manifest as an energetic subject at a vibratory level. A thought, once emitted, is propagated into space and is next accepted or refuted by other people having similar thoughts. The thought always establishes in the emitter a state of receptiveness for specific energies of the same kind. This is why a man’s life is the result of his thoughts. Regardless of circumstances, a human being always has a force which he is not always conscious of. This is the formidable power of positive thoughts, which will put you instantly in resonance with the beneficial, wonderful forces of the Universe.

What was the first thought that appeared in your mind this morning? Was it a beautiful thought, for example, you thought of someone dear to you or simply rejoiced at seeing the sun in the sky? Was it a negative thought, such as: “I am so tired that I’m in no mood for ever getting up”? Remember now your next thoughts, the general state you had when actually beginning your activity. You can notice that the entire “programming” you imagined for today either supported you throughout the entire day or on the contrary brought you only trouble. A great philosopher said: “In you is the cause of everything which occurs in your life.”

Every man is the creator of his own destiny; he is the one building his own existence composed of light and shadow, ups and downs. We are the ones who choose our own goals and it depends on us to aim to the abysses or to the heights. The echo of our aspiration reverberates at the level of the entire Universe, because “An elevated soul will also elevate the world.” Let us start then each day with clear positive thinking. A positive thought means we amplify powerfully belief in ourselves and in God to be in all our actions in harmony with the divine laws of the Universe.

If we observe closely ourselves and the people around us and observe their attitude towards events, we will notice the existence of three fundamental attitudes in life, closely connected to the predominant orientation of the thoughts: the fatalist-pessimistic attitude, the pseudo-idealistic attitude and the active-optimistic attitude.

The Fatalist-Pessimistic Attitude

“Foolish Man, you create wonders without knowing and you do not know at all the formidable power of your own thoughts. You should know that all you imagine is accomplishable in direct proportion to your faith … Why is it that you do not get to know yourself and thus discover a perfect god?” (Tudor Arghezi)

This is the attitude that manifests through fear of the future, the feeling of futility, desperation, restlessness and anxiety. It is most often encountered amongst disoriented, unhappy and unbalanced people. We have all probably known people who systematically miss all favourable opportunities; they always find themselves facing some difficulties, they consider themselves the victims of negative circumstances. They are the ones who, at the first obstacle they meet, conclude: “I knew I was not going to make it! I cannot do anything or change anything!” When they have to resolve an important problem, the first thought which appears in their minds is that the job is not suitable for them. They immediately become unhappy and disinterested strongly believing that in different circumstances, by resorting to other means they could have resolved it much better and quicker. Because of this reason, the solution to their problem escapes them and they start convincing themselves that they will not resolve it. All past failures are remembered and possible success disappears in front of a mountain of difficulties. All theses things are starting from a single negative thought. Nevertheless it cannot be said that they do not wish to do something. Many times we have heard people asserting: “I will change my life”, “I’ll start over from scratch”, “My luck will change”. Yet, despite all this, they resume these manners of behaviour, these negative attitudes and these same ways of looking at things, even if the outer situation is different. Conflictual tendencies, the inability to surpass various obstacles, to see the situations objectively, to value one’s own qualities, to permanently experience and sense that indescribable feeling of inner calm and harmony are recommenced again and again.

The Pseudo-Idealistic Attitude

“Nothing great has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe something inside them was superior to circumstances.” (Bruce Barton)

“The mind in its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven.” (John Milton)

The second fundamental attitude is characterised by those running from responsibilities and of the tendency to flee from reality into an illusionary world, in which the daily tasks and necessities are ignored in the name of the spirit’s superiority. We meet in this category the fake philosopher, the forever unsatisfied, the endless dreamers. They are the ones immediately giving way to bad moods; the ones always dreaming to what they could have, without ever doing anything to make the dreams become reality; the ones irritated by the most unimportant things and they find defects in everyone around them, yet never to themselves. The pseudo-idealistic attitude is not actually anything other than a false way of self-protection, of hiding from reality and of one’s own destiny. Pseudo-idealists accept a passive manner of leaving things to evolve randomly, to escape in dreams about ideal worlds, which will never exist, because nothing is done for them to exist. Non-action represents, in this case, a method of action, but a negative one which brings negative results.

If the pseudo-idealistic attitude is transformed into an authentic-idealistic attitude, which presumes that fear of responsibility and fleeing from reality is transformed into self-confidence and faith in life, the third attitude appears, the active-optimist. Contemplating can become, in this case, a way of correct thinking, of truly living, of becoming the ruler of destiny.

The Active-Optimistic Attitude

“The history of the world is that of a few extraordinary people who had complete belief in themselves. This belief makes manifest the Divine, which is always behind us. A human being that has a great belief maybe anything; everything is a possibility. Such a human being will only fail when he does not give sufficient effort to manifest the subtle infinite power of the Universe. You who understand will realise how important it is we believe, before everything, in the power of ourselves.” (Swami Sivananda)

The third fundamental attitude, the active optimistic, is characterised by those who evaluate how all that exists around them as being positive. The profoundly positive attitude of their mind is the firm, unshakeable belief that things go well and that any problem or difficulty can be surpassed. Life is full of circumstances that we cannot influence directly; what we can do is modify our way of looking at them. Active-optimists build a positive state of spirit, being thus capable to face all events and thus influence, for the better, those around them. They envelop all their personal relationships in affectionate, charming warmth. These people know that difficulties represent the necessities of life, which help us deeply understand life and surpass our own limits. Active-optimists know they are not toys in the hands of destiny but the creators of their own happiness. They make from their permanent state of enthusiasm a true art as they awaken such capacities to pass with ease over all obstacles. They nurture almost always the power of positive thoughts and act always for the good of things, being fully and promptly sustained by the beneficial forces attracted by resonance from the Macrocosm. These people are open towards all that enriches the spirit; they are ready to learn everything from anything and strongly believe that the most revolutionary act they could achieve in this world is to be happy. For the very fact that they assert the good into everything, the events and beings reflect them back at their best.

In other words: “Say YES to Life and Life will also answer YES to you!”
Yogaesoteric
29 November 2006
 
Hi again, twilite,

You seem to have missed my previous post.  Please read the 'new age and cointelpro' section of this forum before posting further.  This forum is based on the work of GI Gurdjieff, and due to this, it has a very particular purpose.  There are thousands of newage (rhymes with sewage)  forums out there where you can dream as long and as powerfully as you like while the world is on fire.  This is not one of those forums, so perhaps you would be much 'happier' elsewhere - just say, 'yes'.
 
Hi twilite,

You seem to be ignoring the suggestions made to you by anart and it doesn't help if you just keep posting questionable articles to prove your point.
What you are talking about has been addressed on this board many times, so it would help if you'd use the search functions and read the material this forum is based on.

The issues you present have been written about in this article at length as well:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/cosmic_cointelpro.htm
 
And here is a page from the online version of the Wave that should illustrate clearly the prevailing understanding in this general area...
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave8.htm
 
twilite said:
In other words: “Say YES to Life and Life will also answer YES to you!”
That could be like saying YES to Lies.

Before I want to say Yes to Life or to anything; I first would like to view Life objectively as it is and not as how I want Life to be like. And even then I wouldn't be completely sure if I want to say Yes, because there will always be a little doubt in the back of my mind.
Possibilities within possibilities...

So thanks but no thanks!
 
This is quite a controversial topic and despite what some people have said, there actually IS evidence that prayer or whatever you want to call it, can work in some instances. I'm not saying that praying or using one's mind to bring about change is necessarily in keeping with objectivity or STO thinking, but I am saying that it CAN WORK. In most cases doing such a thing is actually STS behaviour, as has been discussed on these forums extensively. This is because you are projecting upon the universe something you believe SHOULD be the case (i.e. are serving your own desires).

Having said that, for more information on the power of mind, I suggest people read Lynne McTaggart's book The Intention Experiment. McTaggart is the author of The Field, a book discussed and referenced quite frequently on the SOTT forums. The Intention Experiment expands upon the findings of The Field and explains that, based on all the scientific evidence that currently exists, it should be possible to affect one's reality by the power of thought alone. This hypothesis is actually proven in quite a few group experiments which have been conducted over the years. The Monk study I believe is referenced one or more times in this book. I fail to see why it is so difficult to accept that Monks praying can bring about a reduction in crime rate in a particular city. After all it is consistent with the scientific findings in the book The Field.
 
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