My guitar student

[abstract]

Greetings again. I was hoping to get some input on something.

I've been giving lessons to my guitar student for about a year and a half, he's 14 years old. He has good instruments, a ton of material he can work with ( I've given him a LOT of old guitar world magazines), and
he seems to enjoy the time in the lessons and I think he wants to stick with it, since we've been doing this for a year and half.

The problem? I'm starting to really wonder if he practices at all. Just as a teacher, I don't see very much progress happening. This doesn't upset me or anything, I'm just trying to figure out what we can do
to give things a boost. I enjoy our lessons for the most part but he rarely asks questions, he doesn't usually have any material picked out for us to work on beforehand. At first I was deciding what we should
work on but after I gave him the basics I've tried to encourage him to pick out something, some song or something that he'd be excited about learning.

So what do you all think? I really can't pin down the problem as to whether i'm a bad teacher, or he's a bad student, or perhaps i'm using incorrect methods or somehow he doesn't comprehend what I teach him, I really don't know. Perhaps guitar just isn't something he focuses on, I really don't know how he spends his time otherwise. If you need to ask questions feel free.

 

[Turgon]

really can't pin down the problem as to whether i'm a bad teacher, or he's a bad student, or perhaps i'm using incorrect methods or somehow he doesn't comprehend what I teach him, I really don't know. Perhaps guitar just isn't something he focuses on, I really don't know how he spends his time otherwise.

Have you tried talking to him about these concerns? Seeing where his head is at in regards to learning guitar.

The first thing that popped into my mind is maybe he's not so much interested in the lessons as much as it could be spending time with you or something.

 

[Buddy]

Hey abstract. Just in case it might be relevant, how did you come to get this student ? Did he come to you with interest? Could you give a bit more info on the circumstances? I was thinking maybe he values the companionship most, as Daniel suggests.

 

[abstract]

how did you come to get this student ? Did he come to you with interest? Could you give a bit more info on the circumstances?

Well, his mom is my dad's co-worker. Her son got a guitar and wanted to take lessons, so she asked my dad if I would be interested, then he asked me, and I thought it would be
cool to see if I had some teaching skills, so i accepted.

One detail I might mention is that his parents are divorced, which of course means they live in different houses. I do occasionally wonder what's goin' on in his head, because I know
that it's difficult growing up without both parents around all the time. He seems distant and preoccupied a lot of the time.

Have you tried talking to him about these concerns? Seeing where his head is at in regards to learning guitar.

Come to think of it I have, multiple times asked him and he answers my questions but it's usually a rather vague response.

I always seem to have his attention when i'm talking about a band's history, or explaining how tom morello uses a toggle switch to get a cool effect, or how metallica

was a cover band before they got popular, and all that stuff.

 

[RyanX]

Hey abstract. Just in case it might be relevant, how did you come to get this student ? Did he come to you with interest? Could you give a bit more info on the circumstances? I was thinking maybe he values the companionship most, as Daniel suggests.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. He might be doing it because of the urgings of one or both of his parents perhaps? In that case, he probably has little to no inner drive to practice and develop a talent.

When I was more into music I recall meeting some guitarists who really didn't have much musical talent. They had a hard time hearing keys and basic finger techniques. Some of them practiced what seemed to be a lot too, but just never got very far beyond the basics. This might be the case for your student as well. It's not that there is anything wrong with this, it's just my observation that some people have musical ability and others just do not, no matter how hard they practice at it.

Note: I just saw your response Abstract, sounds like his family situation may be an issue too.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I don't think there's much you can do besides explaining that if he wants to progress, he'll need to practice. Several years ago I had a few guitar students, and it was interesting to see who progressed and who didn't. One kid was REALLY into it, and practiced a lot, showing obvious progress. The other was just taking lessons because he had a small interest (he was also really young). I found out a few years later that he'd started piano lessons and REALLY took off as a musician. Turns out, guitar just wasn't his thing.

 

[Gonzo]

My daughter goes to a piano teacher who says to her students that she turns down several students a year. She expects students to lear, to practice and to show up prepared, otherwise she will find students who are more interested. For her, it's about exchanging her knowledge to the betterment of the student's knowledge and ability.

She's actually really down to earth, friendly and quite generous, but when it comes to piano lessons, she's all business and not into wasting her time, which she has reserved specifically to spread her knowledge to those who will use it.

I used to teach guitar and wasn't as strict. I knew kids came to the instrument for different reasons with various expectations and was willing to accommodate as many of the expectations as possible. Of course, I was hungry for work at the time, so any student was a good student if they were a paying student.

But, ultimately it comes down to expectations and objectives. If you are interested in teaching the instrument, as well as certain stylings, then it is fair to expect the student be there to learn and to take on the responsibilities of learning, within whatever degrees of flexibility you are comfortable with.

For example, if you expect a student to both practice and be prepared with selected material, then convey that. The flexibility come in when individual life circumstances limit the amount of practice or preparation a student can do. Are you willing, for example, to cut some slack if the home life is not conducive to practice and if so, would it be possible to allow the student the use of your space to practice without your supervision at times other than lesson time.

I think this situation has provided you with all sorts of opportunity to explore exactly what you are trying to achieve, which is essential in understanding before you can develop and express expectations, both for yourself and for the student.

If you feel you are really just getting your feet wet in teaching guitar, you may find this student gives you opportunity to better define your role, try different techniques, experiment with approached, etc.

It sounds like it's as much about you as it is about the student, but from what I read in your post, I think you already knew that.

A thought I just had was to sit the kid down and ask him what he wants to achieve and then tell him how you plan to accomplish it, including what is required on his end. You may need some time to figure out what it would take and design the lesson plan before presenting it.

Then, after it is presented, with both what he can expect from you and what you expect from him, you can form an agreement, a contract of sorts (you could even draft up the agreement and have both of you sign it).

If you notice him slacking off, you can remind him of the agreement and, if necessary, revisit precisely what he is trying to accomplish.

I found with pre-teens and teens, they often don't really know what they want. It's more conceptual and less concrete. They may have an image in mind, like wanting to be a rock star, but no concept of the true requirements. This process helps them refine their vision and may require several renegotiations. I find this approach quite empowering for them as it forces them to participate in life choices, understanding what is actually involved in coming to such decisions, and makes them take responsibility for those choices. At the same time, it respects their choices and their right to make them while understanding their rights overlap at a certain point, your rights and respect of your rights is important.
Sorry for the lengthy reply. Apparently I had more to say that I originally thought. I hope this is helpful.

Gonzo

 

[Approaching Infinity]

A thought I just had was to sit the kid down and ask him what he wants to achieve and then tell him how you plan to accomplish it, including what is required on his end. You may need some time to figure out what it would take and design the lesson plan before presenting it.

Then, after it is presented, with both what he can expect from you and what you expect from him, you can form an agreement, a contract of sorts (you could even draft up the agreement and have both of you sign it).

That sounds like a good approach to me!

 

[shijing]

I found with pre-teens and teens, they often don't really know what they want. It's more conceptual and less concrete. They may have an image in mind, like wanting to be a rock star, but no concept of the true requirements.

I think this is true. I was was interested in music and started learning guitar when I was a bit older than your student, and I had several friends who were learning various things too. There was a noticeable difference between the ones who were into it for the image, and those who really liked learning for the sake of it. The ones in the first group lacked motivation and never got that far -- the ones in the second group would put energy into daily practice and didn't need anyone to push them -- even without a teacher, they would find things to work on by themselves regularly. There may be some additional things you could do as a teacher, but it sounds like your student may not be that interested when it comes right down to it -- maybe his mom is pushing him to do it? If you can find a way, I guess I'd try to talk to him about what he really wants and encourage him to give you more than vague answers -- it may turn out that you are both just wasting time, or you might have a breakthrough and find a way to work with him on something he really wants to do. Hard to say without knowing a bit more.

 

[Hildegarda]

when it comes to piano lessons, she's all business and not into wasting her time, which she has reserved specifically to spread her knowledge to those who will use it. [..]

But, ultimately it comes down to expectations and objectives. If you are interested in teaching the instrument, as well as certain stylings, then it is fair to expect the student be there to learn and to take on the responsibilities of learning, within whatever degrees of flexibility you are comfortable with.

I agree with Gonzo. The teacher's responsibility is to lay down the rules, whatever they are. The student's responsibility is to figure out what he needs, and work for it. The teacher, in turn, assists the student every step of the way.

It is usually the teacher's task to pick out appropriate music, unless a student volunteers to play a certain appropriate piece. The teacher may or may not require, but certainly always recommends, how much time to practice daily. The teacher helps the student to verbalize the goals for academic year and plans accordingly. Most teachers also have a policy for timely payments and make-up classes.

If you don't do any of this and your student isn't an incredibly motivated autodidact, you'll end up getting paid to simply hang out with him. This isn't necessarily a bad thing for the student, perhaps he is getting something just from this communication. But clearly you are not happy with it. And, I find it a bit strange that you only have a nebulous idea of how your student himself feels about the lessons. You think he is OK, but aren't sure. Time for a talk, in my view.

good luck to both of you!

 

[Approaching Infinity]

It is usually the teacher's task to pick out appropriate music, unless a student volunteers to play a certain appropriate piece. The teacher may or may not require, but certainly always recommends, how much time to practice daily. The teacher helps the student to verbalize the goals for academic year and plans accordingly. Most teachers also have a policy for timely payments and make-up classes.

When I was teaching I always split it up into at least two areas. I'd provide exercises and theory that was picked by me (depending on the level of the student), which was basically homework. I'd teach the technique, theory, etc., then get them to practice it and show me at the next lesson how they were doing. I'd also get them to make a list of songs they wanted to learn. For the next lesson, I'd have learned the song (filtering out the ones that were too beyond their level), made a transcription for them, and then we'd work on it together. This gave me the opportunity to apply the theory I was teaching them to the song they'd picked. That way, the "boring" stuff was made a part of the stuff they WANTED to learn. Good way to get them to learn when they don't know they're learning!

 

[Gonzo]

I guess there's a big difference between helping someone learn to play specific riffs of guitarists they appreciate and learning mastery of an instrument. If you are cool teaching either, it would be important to figure out which it is to optimize the learning experience and your level of satisfaction.

But once you figure out what the student wants, then a fairly strict framework should be developed to foster the necessary respect and engage the learning potential in the student without distractions.

However, as has been suggested, this young man might be looking for a friend, a big brother or even a father figure and if you're cool with that. There could be benefits for both of you. However, I wonder about the person who is paying and what is owed to them in terms of honesty or consideration. There could be a karmic imbalance developing.

Gonzo

 

[abstract]

The responses are much appreciated. :) I should ponder all of this for a while, will come back with something soon though. I'd rather examine the subject with a fresh mind, it being nearly 2 AM.

 

[cholas]

As an aside to the great replies you've received so far Abstract, I was just wondering if the student in question might be one who learns a bit differently than is the 'norm'.

I recall having many problems with the strict learning/practicing involved with traditional piano lessons when I was young. Years later I had a friend who had learned piano in the Suzuki style who really progressed very rapidly. To be honest his playing was amazing and mostly by ear. I had given up with piano by then but always felt that I was more of this 'type' of music-learner and might have stuck with it longer.

Could a different style of teaching be incorporated that might suit his needs better?

A Brief overview:
http://www.suzukipianolessons.net/suzuki.html

You might find the mention of the student/teacher/parent relationship in the above link quite interesting.

As others have noted though, it sounds that maybe this is an attempt by his folks to get him 'into something'. Is he an avid videogame player/TV watcher?

 

[abstract]

He might be doing it because of the urgings of one or both of his parents perhaps? In that case, he probably has little to no inner drive to practice and develop a talent.

I don't think he's being pushed on either side by his parents, from what I understand. His mom doesn't seem to force activities on him or anything like that. She just doesn't seem like that kind of parent.

I don't think there's much you can do besides explaining that if he wants to progress, he'll need to practice. Several years ago I had a few guitar students, and it was interesting to see who progressed and who didn't. One kid was REALLY into it, and practiced a lot, showing obvious progress. The other was just taking lessons because he had a small interest (he was also really young). I found out a few years later that he'd started piano lessons and REALLY took off as a musician. Turns out, guitar just wasn't his thing.

I'm thinking perhaps he is either just not practicing, or he's at some point in life where he hasn't fully developed an interest in anything particular. Perhaps I could ask him if there
are other instruments he wants to learn.

A thought I just had was to sit the kid down and ask him what he wants to achieve and then tell him how you plan to accomplish it, including what is required on his end. You may need some time to figure out what it would take and design the lesson plan before presenting it.

Then, after it is presented, with both what he can expect from you and what you expect from him, you can form an agreement, a contract of sorts (you could even draft up the agreement and have both of you sign it).

A program pops up when I read this. I feel like it'd be asking too much from him, or like i was forcing him or something.

And, I find it a bit strange that you only have a nebulous idea of how your student himself feels about the lessons.

Why do you find it strange?