My guitar student
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D Rusak
Jedi Council Member
In my experience with teaching, many students do not practice, especially those who are relatively "new" to lessons. I think this is because they sort of view the lesson as the practice time, they will somehow learn by osmosis. You see a similar thing in schools today, at least here in the US. Any homework is more about busy work than encouraging creative answers to acquiring new technical and expressive skills. In music that becomes even more important.
The Suzuki methods generally are geared towards younger students, there often is a cut off for how old one is when they start. In my main school it is 8 years old. I think there is the idea that one needs to have the child in "the method" before their "thinking" brain comes on and starts over-analyzing everything, positively to get them in the habit of "listening" more than analyzing/reading. Personally, my read through of Suzuki made me think of a lot of new agey stuff, but there are also some good things to be learned. "Nurtured By Love" is the classic that is required for parents to read when they are starting out. I must admit that the best students though never come from Suzuki backgrounds, and those who have studied Suzuki often have serious technical problems later on down the road, and are poor readers. That doesn't mean you shouldn't grab a few of his ideas.
I wouldn't take it personally that he is not entirely interested, it is good to observe this but I think you should be patient as well. If he seems to have a positive attitude but gives you vague answers, maybe let it be for a bit? You never know when a student like that all of a sudden is going to hear a piece and be totally thrilled by it, and want to learn it. In the meantime they have VERY SLOWLY been acquiring the skills to play this piece, even if it seems like you are going at a snail's pace and only are getting work done in lessons.
I would highly encourage a listening component to the assignments for the week. I have found this particularly effective with inner city kids who are in programs I teach at because scholarship funds it and their parents (or teachers, or the kid) thinks it's a good idea. These kids often have so much other stuff going on in their lives that the last thing on their mind is which song they want to learn. I like to do this as a journal. I usually say, pick one song you heard on the radio, youtube, whatever. Say what the song is, who wrote it, etc. What you liked and didn't like about the song. If you hated it, that's ok. If the only music you heard was on an elevator, that's fine too, just write about it and think about it. A lot of kids start out not doing it but after some encouragement they start to get excited about it. The nice thing is then you can sort of steer them towards genres/appropriate songs, some of which they might not ever have encountered in a traditional method. With guitar you do have a lot more freedom in styles than say, oboe, of course! ;)
The Suzuki methods generally are geared towards younger students, there often is a cut off for how old one is when they start. In my main school it is 8 years old. I think there is the idea that one needs to have the child in "the method" before their "thinking" brain comes on and starts over-analyzing everything, positively to get them in the habit of "listening" more than analyzing/reading. Personally, my read through of Suzuki made me think of a lot of new agey stuff, but there are also some good things to be learned. "Nurtured By Love" is the classic that is required for parents to read when they are starting out. I must admit that the best students though never come from Suzuki backgrounds, and those who have studied Suzuki often have serious technical problems later on down the road, and are poor readers. That doesn't mean you shouldn't grab a few of his ideas.
I wouldn't take it personally that he is not entirely interested, it is good to observe this but I think you should be patient as well. If he seems to have a positive attitude but gives you vague answers, maybe let it be for a bit? You never know when a student like that all of a sudden is going to hear a piece and be totally thrilled by it, and want to learn it. In the meantime they have VERY SLOWLY been acquiring the skills to play this piece, even if it seems like you are going at a snail's pace and only are getting work done in lessons.
I would highly encourage a listening component to the assignments for the week. I have found this particularly effective with inner city kids who are in programs I teach at because scholarship funds it and their parents (or teachers, or the kid) thinks it's a good idea. These kids often have so much other stuff going on in their lives that the last thing on their mind is which song they want to learn. I like to do this as a journal. I usually say, pick one song you heard on the radio, youtube, whatever. Say what the song is, who wrote it, etc. What you liked and didn't like about the song. If you hated it, that's ok. If the only music you heard was on an elevator, that's fine too, just write about it and think about it. A lot of kids start out not doing it but after some encouragement they start to get excited about it. The nice thing is then you can sort of steer them towards genres/appropriate songs, some of which they might not ever have encountered in a traditional method. With guitar you do have a lot more freedom in styles than say, oboe, of course! ;)
Gonzo
The Living Force
As anart suggests, it could just be a function of age. How many 14-year-olds want to do anything that requires effort and does little to gratify the self. They often need to be pushed in they are to overcome their natural laziness until they can learn to push themselves. This is especially relevant with kids whose parents never taught their children to take on chores around the house or take on other forms of responsibility.
Different kids have different levels of perseverance, and depending on the interest, support and interest of the parents, those who have difficulties motivating themselves may find practicing extremely difficult.
I have twin daughters and they both took piano lessons.
One was amazing at the outset. She took to the keyboard like a fish to water. She would even show off by playing everything at two or three times the speed, just because she could. Then one day she hit a plateau in her ability where it started to require effort. I remember that getting her to practice was like pulling teeth. She eventually gave it up. She is pretty talented in a few areas but does not put effort into her work. The moment it becomes unpleasant due to the increased effort required, she bails out. Unfortunately, their mother and I separated around this time, so I no longer was able to help motivate and support her.
Her sister, however, found it difficult from the outset but she was quite interested in learning. After a while of us reminding her to practice, she eventually learned how to force herself to persevere.
Her sister eventually picked up the violin and, from what I had heard, repeated the pattern once she hit a similar plateau.
Since I no longer see my daughters (a painful story involving "divorce poisoning" best left for another thread), I don't know how this story ends, but I am doubtful their mother helped my first daughter learn how to persevere because she didn't like them to experience discomfort, or she didn't like the discomfort of pushing our daughters, I never figured that one out.
Gonzo
Different kids have different levels of perseverance, and depending on the interest, support and interest of the parents, those who have difficulties motivating themselves may find practicing extremely difficult.
I have twin daughters and they both took piano lessons.
One was amazing at the outset. She took to the keyboard like a fish to water. She would even show off by playing everything at two or three times the speed, just because she could. Then one day she hit a plateau in her ability where it started to require effort. I remember that getting her to practice was like pulling teeth. She eventually gave it up. She is pretty talented in a few areas but does not put effort into her work. The moment it becomes unpleasant due to the increased effort required, she bails out. Unfortunately, their mother and I separated around this time, so I no longer was able to help motivate and support her.
Her sister, however, found it difficult from the outset but she was quite interested in learning. After a while of us reminding her to practice, she eventually learned how to force herself to persevere.
Her sister eventually picked up the violin and, from what I had heard, repeated the pattern once she hit a similar plateau.
Since I no longer see my daughters (a painful story involving "divorce poisoning" best left for another thread), I don't know how this story ends, but I am doubtful their mother helped my first daughter learn how to persevere because she didn't like them to experience discomfort, or she didn't like the discomfort of pushing our daughters, I never figured that one out.
Gonzo
H
Hildegarda
Guest
abstract said:
I understood it to mean that you haven't asked him directly, and wondered why. You explained later that
,
and that makes perfect sense, thank you for clarifying.
H
Hildegarda
Guest
D Rusak said:
This is exactly my take on it, too. My kids have been in Suzuki violin for years, but their teacher actively supplements with other sight-reading and technique materials. Many professional violinists, especially from other countries, hate Suzuki method with passion. But apparently its advent really has made violin teaching for children in the US more popular. I don't know much about piano or other instruments.
H
Hildegarda
Guest
Gonzo said:
That's true but early teens is also a time when many children really think what they are interested in, and find motivation to work on it. My observation is that at that age some people who were just trudging along in an activity either pick up their practicing, or give it up altogether.
There is another thing specific to music. I was told once that in order to know for sure whether you like playing an instrument, you have to give it 6 years or so, and I think there's a lot of truth in it. Your interest in it depends very much on what you are physically able to do on it, to what extent you can unlock the instrument's capabilities. But to be able to do stuff, you need to practice.
So, if this student doesn't practice, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has no real interest. It could be that he has no real interest just yet because he never practiced hard enough. Perhaps that's also something to convey to him.
fwiw
abstract
Dagobah Resident
Here's what I'm gonna do.
When I get to the lesson today I'll simply ask him, since i've basically been letting him do his own thing, if he would be willing to try keeping a log or a journal of some kind.
I wanna see what happens when I give him an actual assignment, an actual goal. I think maybe if I have a way to keep track of his musical activities I can make better decisions regarding his
musical education. I'm gonna get back to basics with him for a bit, because I don't think those were ever really solidified in him. So, we'll see what happens.
When I get to the lesson today I'll simply ask him, since i've basically been letting him do his own thing, if he would be willing to try keeping a log or a journal of some kind.
I wanna see what happens when I give him an actual assignment, an actual goal. I think maybe if I have a way to keep track of his musical activities I can make better decisions regarding his
musical education. I'm gonna get back to basics with him for a bit, because I don't think those were ever really solidified in him. So, we'll see what happens.
Gonzo
The Living Force
I think giving a form of assignment demonstrates you have an expectation that he work on his music outside of lessons, which is great, not to mention that the method you've chosen will certainly provide you with broader knowledge, perhaps as to what goes on in his world, his challenges, etc.
As well, it shows you mean business and believe a solid foundation is the only way to build a structure.
I've thought about your situation and realize there is no wrong answer, only lessons for both of you and I think it important to always keep that in the back of your mind as a spiritual truth. Of course, depending on what you are trying to accomplish, there are economic, efficient ways of getting there and there are the long and winding paths, some of which might get you there but all of which provide lessons.
So, as humans, our difficulty is trying to maintain awareness of the universal or spiritual truths while attaining the goals we set to accomplish. No method is wrong in the spiritual sense, but might be inefficient or ineffective in the 3-D goal-based sense.
That's some of what I'm personally taking from this experience and thank you for posting.
Gonzo
As well, it shows you mean business and believe a solid foundation is the only way to build a structure.
I've thought about your situation and realize there is no wrong answer, only lessons for both of you and I think it important to always keep that in the back of your mind as a spiritual truth. Of course, depending on what you are trying to accomplish, there are economic, efficient ways of getting there and there are the long and winding paths, some of which might get you there but all of which provide lessons.
So, as humans, our difficulty is trying to maintain awareness of the universal or spiritual truths while attaining the goals we set to accomplish. No method is wrong in the spiritual sense, but might be inefficient or ineffective in the 3-D goal-based sense.
That's some of what I'm personally taking from this experience and thank you for posting.
Gonzo
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