my parents crying

[loreta]

Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)

There is good and there is bad, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which.

Along with finding threads that Laura has suggested you look at, you may want to look at the links that were provided by truth seeker about strategic enclosure and external consideration. In the external consideration link, it also talks about internal consideration.

There are times to be sincere and times not to be sincere. If you are only trying to make others, who are not ready, to see things the way you see them, that is internal consideration. Discerning why you are doing something is part of the Work.

It is not up to us to change others, or to make them see things as we do. Also, telling other people the way we think could make things much more difficult for both parties.

Yes, I think it is true. Thanks.

I read some links that you counsel to read (and I have to read much more) and YES, you are right. I was wrong, my perceptions are wrong. Those links are so clear that all my perceptions about sincerity are reverse. Now I really understand what you all mean. I am like a little kid who start to walk. Thank you very much.

 

[Bresias]

Also, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."

What Gurdjieff mean with this statement? In what context? I tough to be sincere is a good attitude. Now I am lost. Why it is a weakness to be sincere with everyone? Can I read something about it?

Thank you.

It's just not very protective of the emerging self to lay it out on the altar when it is fragile and vulnerable.

One can be sincere within and remain well guarded from without. I wish that didn't sound like a cliche'. I don't claim anything beyond what I understand, which is limited.

"Sincerity with everyone" to me, at my current awareness, is kind of dangerous, even brash. Not well advised. Others here can explain this better than me!

 

[EmeraldHope]

, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."

This has always reminded me of two things.


-My ex psychopath used to always say that people will tell you in the first ten minutes of meeting them exactly how to hurt them if you know what to look for. He said they cannot help but let you know what they need the most, if they think you can deliver it on any level.


- In certain sales training you are taught how to find the closing angle not only by the type of objection, but how quickly and emotionally the objection is made.

 

[Nienna]

Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)

There is good and there is bad, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which.

Along with finding threads that Laura has suggested you look at, you may want to look at the links that were provided by truth seeker about strategic enclosure and external consideration. In the external consideration link, it also talks about internal consideration.

There are times to be sincere and times not to be sincere. If you are only trying to make others, who are not ready, to see things the way you see them, that is internal consideration. Discerning why you are doing something is part of the Work.

It is not up to us to change others, or to make them see things as we do. Also, telling other people the way we think could make things much more difficult for both parties.

Yes, I think it is true. Thanks.

I read some links that you counsel to read (and I have to read much more) and YES, you are right. I was wrong, my perceptions are wrong. Those links are so clear that all my perceptions about sincerity are reverse. Now I really understand what you all mean. I am like a little kid who start to walk. Thank you very much.

We are all little kids learning to walk, there is always so much more to learn. So don't feel alone in this. Especially when just starting out on this journey. But learning the lessons is what matters, and you seem sincere in doing this. :)

 

[loreta]

This concept of sincerity is very interesting. It makes me think about all the situations when I have been attacked because I was sincere. Surely I have a lot to learn in that sense. Also, in my family, sincerity was perceive under two feelings: it was very important, for my father, and it was a problem, for my mother. I remember that my mother told me many times not to be so sincere when looking for a job. My sincerity was a problem to find a job. My mother used to say: be a little more hypocritical. Maybe she was right. The last job I had was the worst: my sincerity was the cause of very hard attacks from the other women. So far I had to leave the job where 2 or 3 women were a little psychopaths. But the reason of being attacked was my sincerity. Now I start to understand this concept. Thank you!

 

[Alcarohtare]

Hi,
maybe reading to them Khalil Gibran's poem On Children would make them understand, if they are really Christians...

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

 

[ROEL]

Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you.

From the text of The Lost Gospel: "For I have come to create conflict between a man and his father, disagreement between a daughter and her mother, and estrangement between a daughter-in-law and her mother-in-law. A person's enemies will be one's own kin."

And to paraphrase Gurdjieff: "We can only strive to be Christians".

 

[ishiki]

The situation at home calmed down a little bit. I understand their feelings and I won't undertake any other actions. I did more than enough already. Thinking, reading and meditating it over before acting is my next step.

Fortunately a friend pulled me out of my ''misery''. Listened to me and encouraged me. She spoke to me about her own discoveries and it helped to get me back on track. I didn't really wanted to come back to here. Not because of discouraging or rebuking words (because they aren't), but because I lost my will of continuing with the work.

Yesterday, while I was reading in ISOTM it struck me. What is my aim? what are the excuses of doing things that do not strive this aim? My ultimate aim is to gain knowledge and increase my being, thus my understanding. Though I probably adjust this aim or deepen it while my understanding grows.

My excuse of doing something I 'ought' not to was that I wanted to loose my safety net. There was always a part of me that said: "You can always go back to where you came from. It is not too late, don't you want a quite and peacefull life?" At one point I got so annoyed with myself, that I decided to expose myself to my parents in order to shut myself up. That was my excuse to do things that I 'ought' not to do.

I understand that now.

Also, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."

What Gurdjieff mean with this statement? In what context? I tough to be sincere is a good attitude. Now I am lost. Why it is a weakness to be sincere with everyone? Can I read something about it?

Thank you.

It's just not very protective of the emerging self to lay it out on the altar when it is fragile and vulnerable.

One can be sincere within and remain well guarded from without. I wish that didn't sound like a cliche'. I don't claim anything beyond what I understand, which is limited.

"Sincerity with everyone" to me, at my current awareness, is kind of dangerous, even brash. Not well advised. Others here can explain this better than me!

I became very aware of this fact, after contemplating about the whole situation. The reason why I came back to my sense is that my friend was there for me. If she wasn't I would probably still be in the "I don't want to do anything at all" mindset.

Hi,
maybe reading to them Khalil Gibran's poem On Children would make them understand, if they are really Christians...

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Thank you lux12, I really like this poem.