NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

[Jacques]

I have also found that techniques such as "cooks hookup" reduces noise.

That exercise looks very similar to a Brain Gym exercise.

If so, do you encourage your clients to do the PACE before doing NO?

 

[mrtn]

I forgot to add - the reason why he took a 60 second snapshot is because things like eye blinking, swallowing and clenching the jaw can actually give a false reading. He showed me on a dynamic graph the effect that these simple things can have on the display. So for the baseline in that 60 seconds, I was to avoid blinking, swallowing and jaw clenching. I think this is only really important for baseline measures for comparison over a number of sessions and not so important for the full half hour.

When you're not moving, it's like a perfect hourglass where the right and left are super-balanced - with a giant subconscious part [See attached video clip.]. The map is also very together. But when you move, you see some shifts.

And when she moved a bit, smoked a cigarette or moved her hand to be able to get each letter, the graph only changed slightly, still being quite balanced.

I guess the changes that show up from physical activity are distinct from the noise peaks, is that right, so that these are two different things? And can the reading be influenced when you touch someone else, like when holding the planchette, or if the planchette was conductive/sweaty?
Sorry, I have only questions, not answers.

 

[choepel]

And the post base line without a doubt is just pure line noise (even though the CCAC is lower) - (the pattern of spiking is typical of line noise and not of human EEG).

And when I say not human EEG - I doubt it is the EEG of a channeled BEING (though I can not be sure - but I would expect to see a more harmonious and coherent EEG - as opposed to the typical pattern of line noise. But if you could start off without line noise and then start channeling we can see better.

 

[choepel]

That exercise looks very similar to a Brain Gym exercise.

If so, do you encourage your clients to do the PACE before doing NO?

Yes, Cooks Hookup (which I think is a kinesiology technique) is used in Brain Gym. Personally, I have not used the PACE techniques, but my wife when working with dyslexic and ADHD children would regularly use it - and yes - it seems like a good way of starting a NO session. (note: this is certainly not Zengar advice). At the same time, we have never done research to find out if it really makes a difference of if NO would achieved the same without it. It was just an intuitive thing to try it. The Brain Gym exercises certainly seem to create a better communication between the brain hemispheres and children are very obviously calmer and more centred after them.

 

[Jacques]

and yes - it seems like a good way of starting a NO session

Thanks choepel. I will definitively try it for my next sessions.

 

[luc]

That would be disappointing. But nothing is fixed. Maybe he can be persuaded to change his mind at some stage.

For what it's worth, I think being cautious and holding your cards close to your chest and taking things slowly isn't such a bad idea. Yes, in an ideal world, just making everything public and free and opensource etc. would be great, but an ideal world this certainly ain't. Having altruistic motives and being strategic aren't mutually exclusive IMO, in fact it can be a great combo. I can certainly understand that the NO creator(s) are protective about their lives' work and take things one step at a time. Nothing wrong with getting reimbursed for something that took a lot of work and that people derive great benefits from either! Just my 2 cents.

 

[choepel]

I guess the changes that show up from physical activity are distinct from the noise peaks, is that right, so that these are two different things? And can the reading be influenced when you touch someone else, like when holding the planchette, or if the planchette was conductive/sweaty?
Sorry, I have only questions, not answers.

Think of the sensors connected to the ZAMP (which amplifies the signal) as being like super microphones that pick up every bit of electrical activity. Movement - including talking, yawning, chewing gum, sighing, all distort the signal during the baseline. Of course, even if you just have the sensors lying on a table you will get a reading and if you run a session the software will still be detecting variations of the ambient electrical noise. We used to encourage clients to stay still and quiet during a session to avoid distortions. But most trainers have found that even if a client talks or does some movement (which would certainly be typical in some client groups such as ADHD) we still get good results. And as said, the baselines really have no importance. Far better to just enjoy the brain training without interpretation or labelling and measure results based on actual changes within yourself and your life.

 

[Joe]

Essentially it alerts the brain when it is about to move into a different phase and it gives the brain the opportunity of interrupting the phase shift or not. This leads to greater resilience and flexibility and an optimised brain

Thanks for the explanation, it makes sense. It's like saying that the NO allows the brain to become more aware of itself.

 

[nature]

Thank your choepel for your inputs

I have some questions, if it doesn't bother you:

1)

... There are also experiments to do with frequency of use. Some people have tried 1 session a day for a month with some fascinating results. And Zengar have held intensive weeks with 3 sessions a day for a week in a room with other people doing the same at the same times. There comes a time in the session when everyone suddenly feels this wonderfully uplifted and extraordinarily calm energy.

The 3 persons on the same computer? Then, with 3 z-amp? It is possible to connect 3 z-amp on 1 laptop? Or it requires 3 laptops, 1 for each person?

2) About micro-pauses during the music: is it disruption of the music or a sound like a "click" ?
3) For patients with deafness or with very intense and continuous tinnitus, how do you do so that they hear the clicks ? (if you had to deal with such cases)
4) For films: there are no films in Zengar laptops, so I guess one have to add a DVD drive. Can we use all types of films?
5) I have NO2 . Is it better to upgrade to NO3 ? or are there some bugs with the new version ?
6) do you know if there are sensors without needing glue?

 

[Laura]

Yes I understand, but the initial base line looks like it had line noise. The CCAC is over 300 which Val says is one of the indicators of line noise (he generally says that about any CCAC over 200) . So it might be a question of adding more paste to the head sensors, or trying it a different environment.

The problem with that is that the machine is in pretty much the same place, every time we have used it which amounts to several hundreds of sessions by now, and the baselines have a WIDE variance up and down, both starting and finishing on many different people under identical conditions. And plenty of paste is being used and the application is pretty standard. And that was the case in this event; in fact, a bit more paste than usual was used in order to insure good contact/adhesion.

In other words, we are pretty certain of our conditions and application.

 

[Laura]

And when I say not human EEG - I doubt it is the EEG of a channeled BEING (though I can not be sure - but I would expect to see a more harmonious and coherent EEG - as opposed to the typical pattern of line noise. But if you could start off without line noise and then start channeling we can see better.

Nobody is even suggesting that it is the EEG of a "channeled being". We don't do that. You need to get up to speed on the Cass Experiment to understand that it is not the usual channeling sort of thing.

Also, see previous post about line noise; it ain't that.

 

[choepel]

Thank your choepel for your inputs

I have some questions, if it doesn't bother you:

1)

The 3 persons on the same computer? Then, with 3 z-amp? It is possible to connect 3 z-amp on 1 laptop? Or it requires 3 laptops, 1 for each person?

2) About micro-pauses during the music: is it disruption of the music or a sound like a "click" ?
3) For patients with deafness or with very intense and continuous tinnitus, how do you do so that they hear the clicks ? (if you had to deal with such cases)
4) For films: there are no films in Zengar laptops, so I guess one have to add a DVD drive. Can we use all types of films?
5) I have NO2 . Is it better to upgrade to NO3 ? or are there some bugs with the new version ?
6) do you know if there are sensors without needing glue?

1. No all separate computers - there would usually be around 10 people at least syncronised to run sessions at the same time.
2. The disruption of the music is micro - yes it sounds like a click or a scratch on vinyl
3. There has been a lot of discussion about deafness - I would use earphones not speakers with hearing problems and the screen display too (which mirrors the micro pauses though does not impact the brain as much. We have used it a lot with people with tinnitus and they seem to hear the pauses OK. In some cases, the tinnitus improves
4. In NO2 you need to convert movies to AVI format and put them on the hard drive or use an external hard drive. In NO3 you can play DVDs from a DVD player
5. NO3 has a few bugs still though most are ironed out. The bugs do not seem to affect the sessions. I am seeing significantly better results with NO3 - deeper and faster. However, whether you upgrade depends on the hardware. If you have the surface pro tablet then no problem. With ASUS laptops check with Zengar as some are incompatible.
6. At the moment we can only use the sensors with conducting paste. Because we are reading whole brain activity from only two sites on the scalp, it is currently the only accurate way of doing so. We all long for a bluetooth headband!

 

[choepel]

It's like saying that the NO allows the brain to become more aware of itself.

Yes, that is it exactly. It is like holding a mirror up to the brain so it can become aware of things it wasn't noticing.

 

[choepel]

You need to get up to speed on the Cass Experiment to understand that it is not the usual channeling sort of thing.

I'll get back to you on this when I have had time.

 

[Mikey]

Hi choepel, could you explain what CCAC is? I understand it is "cross correlation of auto correlation". What is "auto correlation", specifically what is correlated?