New Age mumbo jumbo?

[Teresa]

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum since this isn't exactly considered channeled information but it's definately of the New Age variety.

About 15 years ago this person was a teacher to me of sorts. He was apprenticed by monks in Tibet and despite a little difficulty trying to understand what he’s talking about (due to language differences) I sense a contradiction. So, after he posted something on facebook I decided to comment just to clarify his intent. I’m including the whole exchange because I could have been unclear in my reply and I’m kind of rusty at critical thinking so I need a sounding board.

My thought is that the truth he is talking about is subjective. He has always taught that people need to get out of their heads in order to experience reality, which always bothered me because it’s the same thing with most religions in that faith is more important than thinking and searching for the objective truth. I could be way off and if that’s true, I’m sure it will be pointed out. Either way this is definitely a lesson for me.

Teacher: It is not about being enlighten. It is being awake enough to be conscious and aware. True sense of purpose rather trying to be something. It is accepting learning how to be authentic in a world we are projecting rather than acknowledging how to be here. To awaken to the real task in front of us. To live a life with meaning without getting in the way of the flow. Can you feel and hear what part of you is trying to do. Wake up. When we realize we can do more why do we hesitate. Simple we are caught up in the duality of our being . We do not want to realize there other choices we can choose. We start allowing our projections take hold. It is so much easier to look at that then question ourselves of what we are feeling or doing. It is so much more imaginative to allow our stories to take over. We do not have to realize the steps and focus on the intent to take action. We do not have to question our process or intent.
It does matter and when we are not conscious we do not have to realize the impact on ourselves or others. When we do not allow ourselves to see what we can see then we are in trouble. There are truths we must learn to experience and we can when we allow the truth. We must let go of the projection to have things a certain way. When they are not we project a story and go into denial so we do not have to see. We must see first in order for things to change. Being present in here is how it is now. What are we going to do about it is the question?
So when we allow for the questions to be ask rather to get trigger then we are learning something. Learn something consciously rather than being in resistance to the truth. It is more simply when we can feel and experience the truth.
Things do not have to be perfect.
They just have to be allow to be.
Listen to that which must be heard and seen. The truth and all the conscious awareness that must come with it.
To be awaken is to view around us what is being experience. Watch how we and others will deny what is there in order to have a good story. Is that what you want then you must experience what is there to take place.

Teresa: These days the word truth has subjective connotations and I think what you are asking people to do is look for the objective truth. This is no small feat because our egos are quite fragile and attached to their stories based on a dream (wishful thinking).


Teacher: Only if you choose to experience the limited view when we seek to protect ourselves. When we are being authentic truth is obvious and not subject to our patterns of convenience. When we subject truth to our mind then it is not so simple of a question. It is not of a matter of right or wrong. As long as we are in our head we cannot experience what is real. We experience what we seek to project.

 

[NoChannelsOnMyTV]

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum since this isn't exactly considered channeled information but it's definately of the New Age variety.

About 15 years ago this person was a teacher to me of sorts. He was appretnticed by monks in Tibet and despite a little difficulty trying to understand what he’s talking about (due to language differences) I sense a contradiction. So, after he posted something on facebook I decided to comment just to clarify his intent. I’m including the whole exchange because I could have been unclear in my reply and I’m kind of rusty at critical thinking so I need a sounding board.

My thought is that the truth he is talking about is subjective. He has always taught that people need to get out of their heads in order to experience reality, which always bothered me because it’s the same thing with most religions in that faith is more important than thinking and searching for the objective truth. I could be way off and if that’s true, I’m sure it will be pointed out. Either way this is definitely a lesson for me.

I think in fact what he is saying is, that in order to see objective truth you have to leave your own subjective ways of thinking..
Very relevant to the forum IMO (especially in regards to Gurdjieff's teachings about the "Work" with personal programs and buffers and so on.) Look at this for example, forum member Alana's recent comment on the "If one were to develop an "emotional school", what could/should it look like?" thread, which I think bears quite a resemblance to what your teacher is saying:

That's also how i see myself such a school, if i understand what Jakesully is trying to say. And perhaps one of the reasons that schools are the institutions that they are today, is because they are "physical brick and mortar". Life is a school but most people fail to see it because they have these institutions in mind as the "schools" where they expect to learn from the "more educated" whatever they will be taught - giving away their own responsibility for the lessons and the curriculum that will be followed.

And since life is a school, this quote i think answers the question too:

Quote
'Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02

Look at the similarity between what Alana has bolded in the Cassiopeans quote and what I now bold in what your teacher said:

Teacher: It is not about being enlighten. It is being awake enough to be conscious and aware. True sense of purpose rather trying to be something. It is accepting learning how to be authentic in a world we are projecting rather than acknowledging how to be here. To awaken to the real task in front of us. To live a life with meaning without getting in the way of the flow. Can you feel and hear what part of you is trying to do. Wake up. When we realize we can do more why do we hesitate. Simple we are caught up in the duality of our being . We do not want to realize there other choices we can choose. We start allowing our projections take hold. It is so much easier to look at that then question ourselves of what we are feeling or doing. It is so much more imaginative to allow our stories to take over. We do not have to realize the steps and focus on the intent to take action. We do not have to question our process or intent.
It does matter and when we are not conscious we do not have to realize the impact on ourselves or others. When we do not allow ourselves to see what we can see then we are in trouble. There are truths we must learn to experience and we can when we allow the truth. We must let go of the projection to have things a certain way. When they are not we project a story and go into denial so we do not have to see. We must see first in order for things to change. Being present in here is how it is now. What are we going to do about it is the question?
So when we allow for the questions to be ask rather to get trigger then we are learning something. Learn something consciously rather than being in resistance to the truth. It is more simply when we can feel and experience the truth.
Things do not have to be perfect.
They just have to be allow to be.
Listen to that which must be heard and seen. The truth and all the conscious awareness that must come with it.
To be awaken is to view around us what is being experience. Watch how we and others will deny what is there in order to have a good story. Is that what you want then you must experience what is there to take place.

Teresa: These days the word truth has subjective connotations and I think what you are asking people to do is look for the objective truth. This is no small feat because our egos are quite fragile and attached to their stories based on a dream (wishful thinking).

Teacher: Only if you choose to experience the limited view when we seek to protect ourselves. When we are being authentic truth is obvious and not subject to our patterns of convenience. When we subject truth to our mind then it is not so simple of a question. It is not of a matter of right or wrong. As long as we are in our head we cannot experience what is real. We experience what we seek to project.

Over all the teacher says a lot of wise things, IMO.
Thanks for sharing. :)

 

[Hesper]

Hi there Theresa, yes I also got the impression that this was New Age Mumbo Jumbo, but then I started to understand what he was saying. Very interesting stuff, especially the stuff about "letting our stories take over". This is a vice of mine that is hard to notice. I do have trouble with his response to you though:

Teresa: These days the word truth has subjective connotations and I think what you are asking people to do is look for the objective truth. This is no small feat because our egos are quite fragile and attached to their stories based on a dream (wishful thinking).

Teacher: Only if you choose to experience the limited view when we seek to protect ourselves. When we are being authentic truth is obvious and not subject to our patterns of convenience. When we subject truth to our mind then it is not so simple of a question. It is not of a matter of right or wrong. As long as we are in our head we cannot experience what is real. We experience what we seek to project.

Ah, the twist! Yes, living in a pathological world leaves our minds filled with all sorts of pathological thoughts, ways of lying to get attention, etc; in other words, we get the predator's mind. And finding our true selves in this mess is anything but "simple". We have to use our head. Here is a quote from Laura in the Caricature of Love page:

What was amazing to me was how we have ALL been programmed to accept certain things that are promoted as "ideals" when, in fact, they are perverse. We may feel that something is wrong there, but it is such a part of our social environment and programming, that it is difficult to get outside and see it.

Therefore, based only on this one instance, I would say the Teacher seems to be professing the "way of the monk". If so, then what he says is not wrong, only incomplete:

The fakir is master of his body but not of his emotions or his mind; the monk is master of his emotions but not of his body or his mind; the yogi is master of his mind but not of his body or his emotions. Then the fourth way differs from the other ways in that the principal demand made upon a man is the demand for understanding. A man must do nothing that he does not understand, except as an experiment under the supervision and direction of his teacher. The more a man understands what he is doing, the greater will be the results of his efforts. This is a fundamental principle of the fourth way.

Thank you for sharing what he said, though, as there were some interesting nuggets in there!

 

[Teresa]

quote from NoChannels

I think in fact what he is saying is, that in order to see objective truth you have to leave your own subjective ways of thinking..
Very relevant to the forum IMO (especially in regards to Gurdjieff's teachings about the "Work" with personal programs and buffers and so on.)

I completely agree which is why I wanted clarification from my former teacher. He has really good things to say. Also, thank you for taking the time to point out what my former teacher said and how it corresponds to the Cassiopean quote. It gives me a different way of looking at it.

quote from Hesper

Therefore, based only on this one instance, I would say the Teacher seems to be professing the "way of the monk". If so, then what he says is not wrong, only incomplete:

Quote from: In Search of the Miraculous
The fakir is master of his body but not of his emotions or his mind; the monk is master of his emotions but not of his body or his mind; the yogi is master of his mind but not of his body or his emotions. Then the fourth way differs from the other ways in that the principal demand made upon a man is the demand for understanding. A man must do nothing that he does not understand, except as an experiment under the supervision and direction of his teacher. The more a man understands what he is doing, the greater will be the results of his efforts. This is a fundamental principle of the fourth way.

I think you may have just hit the nail on the head there. That makes so much sense to me now that I see it. And you're correct that his teaching is only incomplete.

quote from Hesper

Hi there Theresa, yes I also got the impression that this was New Age Mumbo Jumbo, but then I started to understand what he was saying. Very interesting stuff, especially the stuff about "letting our stories take over". This is a vice of mine that is hard to notice. I do have trouble with his response to you though:

Quote from: Teacher
Teresa: These days the word truth has subjective connotations and I think what you are asking people to do is look for the objective truth. This is no small feat because our egos are quite fragile and attached to their stories based on a dream (wishful thinking).

Teacher: Only if you choose to experience the limited view when we seek to protect ourselves. When we are being authentic truth is obvious and not subject to our patterns of convenience. When we subject truth to our mind then it is not so simple of a question. It is not of a matter of right or wrong. As long as we are in our head we cannot experience what is real. We experience what we seek to project.

Ah, the twist! Yes, living in a pathological world leaves our minds filled with all sorts of pathological thoughts, ways of lying to get attention, etc; in other words, we get the predator's mind. And finding our true selves in this mess is anything but "simple". We have to use our head.

If he is professing the way of the monk, then it makes more sense and I just need to keep that in mind and be respectful of his belief system. This is where I get to practice external and internal consideration.

No channels and Hesper, thank you for your replies this has been very helpful for me. :)

 

[Hesper]

This is where I get to practice external and internal consideration.

This is exactly what I was thinking. This is a great chance to practice external consideration, although internal consideration is something that we are a victim of and it doesn't require any practice. PS I don't know if you noticed, but sorry for misspelling your name on the last post!

 

[Teresa]

Quote from Hesper

although internal consideration is something that we are a victim of and it doesn't require any practice

Good point. I just went back and looked up the definition of Internal Consideration and my initial understanding of the term was way off.

Quote from Hesper

PS I don't know if you noticed, but sorry for misspelling your name on the last post!

I did not even notice. The French spelling of my name is far more popular than the Spanish. I get it all the time. No apologies necessary.