New show: NewsReal with Joe & Niall

[Niall]

Niall's next "Orwellian" trip: North Korea!
"We were greeted by Kim as we exited the airplane..."

You're joking, but they've just opened regular flights from Moscow to Pyongyang, so watch this space!

 

[EmeraldR]

Thanks Joe,Niall and Scottie -much appreciated .

also really enjoyed hearing Nialls account and experiences of recent trip :).

Glad youre both home and safe :)

 

[Joe]

there is no economic formula on Earth where you can observe positive economic growth and prosperity in a country's major cities, and then find mostly decay and despair in the rest of the country. So Russia's critics are almost certainly using the wrong assumption when claiming that "Moscow and St Pete don't count because they don't reflect the real Russia": when you visit Paris and London and New York City, you note what is good and bad about those cities, and what appears to be trending upwards or downwards based on your previous visit there, and then you CAN reasonably infer general socio-economic conditions for the remainder of those respective countries.

But Russia isn't a Western country in terms of longer term development. 20 years ago I'd say a lot of it was in a pretty poor state of repair. How much has Putin and Co. really been able to do since then, not only on the economic front but on the corrupt front?

So I'd say it's an open question as to what other smaller cities and towns are like across Russia, and that can't necessarily be inferred from looking at Moscow or St. Pete. Maybe some Russian members can let us know if they've been out to the boondocks.

Google street view only gets you so far, but from what I've seen it's a bit of a mixed bag. I used to spend some time 'driving' down street view maps of Russian towns and, on most occasions, I ended up playing a game I called "spot the house that doesn't have a rusty corrugated metal roof".

 

[Cosmos]

But Russia isn't a Western country in terms of longer term development. 20 years ago I'd say a lot of it was in a pretty poor state of repair. How much has Putin and Co. really been able to do since then, not only on the economic front but on the corrupt front?

So I'd say it's an open question as to what other smaller cities and towns are like across Russia, and that can't necessarily be inferred from looking at Moscow or St. Pete. Maybe some Russian members can let us know if they've been out to the boondocks.

Google street view only gets you so far, but from what I've seen it's a bit of a mixed bag. I used to spend some time 'driving' down street view maps of Russian towns and, on most occasions, I ended up playing a game I called "spot the house that doesn't have a rusty corrugated metal roof".

From what I heard from Russians that either lived there or are still going there from time to time or are living in Russia: It is a land of extremes.

Partly that’s because of its enormous size. Moscow and St. Petersburg in particular are the most developed and “western like“ areas, while other parts (especially in rural and far away places) can be VERY different in many respects also in terms of corruption. Corruption and living conditions any westerner would find hard to comprehend.

Having said that I think what Putin and company have accomplished especially under such circumstances (in that time frame with such a complex and huge country, in general) seems to be nothing short of a miracle! And I do think a certain morality/spirit in the Russian population as whole must have aided that to a significant respect too. Good leadership can only go so far.

 

[Cosmos]

A brief summary?!

The first, general thing to note is that Russia's economy appears to be booming. While my wife and I were only visiting Moscow and St Petersburg, the two biggest cities, and thus we obviously couldn't gauge how life is in more distant locations in rural, southern and eastern Russia, there is no economic formula on Earth where you can observe positive economic growth and prosperity in a country's major cities, and then find mostly decay and despair in the rest of the country. So Russia's critics are almost certainly using the wrong assumption when claiming that "Moscow and St Pete don't count because they don't reflect the real Russia": when you visit Paris and London and New York City, you note what is good and bad about those cities, and what appears to be trending upwards or downwards based on your previous visit there, and then you CAN reasonably infer general socio-economic conditions for the remainder of those respective countries.

Anyway, with that caveat in mind, Russia's two largest cities are as modern and well-functioning as those of any developed country: Superb, integrated, easy-to-grasp public transport system, reliable internet and phone coverage, and great apps like Yandex 'Go' for near-instant taxi service, Yandex Maps (which is better, more in-depth, and faster, in my experience, than Google Maps). The catch, however, is that since 2022 you need either an e-sim to access their mobile network, or an actual Russian sim. Only Russian citizens can get a sim card, so it helps if you know someone there who'll get one for you. One key sector in which Russia is not as developed as western Europe is its road network. I'd been warned beforehand - by a Russian! - to, "for God's sake," NOT drive in and around Moscow, in part because major roadworks are always underway during the summer months, making traffic jams even worse than normal, in part because of 'corruption' (specifically, 'bandits' staging accidents to bilk foreign tourists!? Never saw or heard anything about such while I was there), and in part because Russians drive 'erratically'.

Well, the temptation was too much to not experience it for myself... so I rented a car! Just for two days, so that we could visit a couple of monumental cathedrals in the wider Moscow region. I found driving there to be fine: they have European standards and signage in most matters, and the traffic was not so bad in Moscow city itself (despite major roadworks, which is another sign of healthy economic activity). Once out in open countryside, the highways were generally in 'normal' condition... except for the odd (deep!) pothole on highway entry/exit ramps. Oh, and the speed limits were patronizingly low: 110 km/h on the highways, for example. Most Russian drivers respect the limits, but quite often an expensive, sporty car zooms past you on your inside, and continues weaving in and out of traffic at speeds well above the speed limit. What's that about!? Our Russian companion told us that those are the "rich kids' cars," and that they just pay fines all day, everyday, so they effectively get to drive however they like. "But what about a penalty system deducting points from their driving licenses?" I asked. "No such thing," he said. "Ok, forget about speed cameras, fixed or mobile, what if they're physically pulled over by the police?" "Then they just produce the right documents."

Aha, so there is corruption in Russia! We met up with Irish RT journalist Chay Bowes one afternoon and one of the things he told us was that corruption has been stamped out - in Moscow at least. What he was referring to specifically was bribery: attempt to bribe an official, from a lowly traffic warden to a high state official, and you're going to jail. But if you have "the right documents," indicating that either you or your daddy is "connected" to either the apparatus of government and/or "the oligarchy," then you apparently enjoy more freedoms than most. I didn't like that. I felt that such 'in-your-face' rule-bending couldn't be good for social morale. But hey, isn't such 'hierarchical', preferential treatment the case - in one form or another - the world over?

I mentioned major roadworks. Russians are also driving modern cars! Sure we saw the odd banger like an old Lada, but Lada today also makes modern SUVs! Inside and outside Moscow city, we saw lots of new European cars, American cars, Chinese cars (which really are the future!) and Korean and Japanese cars. We also saw major, active building sites: for more residential apartment blocks, more metro stations, more multi-storey carparks, more shopping malls, etc. All of which is to say that the Russia we saw is developing as if it was not under tight sanctions, and as if it was not engaged in a fairly major war with a neighboring country. And yet it is, on both counts, and thus we can reasonably deduce that its economy would be booming even more but for those impediments. Its shopping malls, generally attractive and actually pleasant to be in, were chok full of goods and shoppers. Its grocery stores too, and its open markets, with tropical fruits galore from its southern neighbors. And we saw loads of goods 'made in Europe' being sold in them. So much for sanctions! European companies are clearly getting around them. In fact, Russia's overall economic problem these days is that its economy is running too hot, hence interests rates are very high compared with the West: the government is concerned with keeping inflation down and keeping things steady and stable. As for the war's impact on daily life, we saw updates from the front on their local TV news, streets advertisements encouraging people to enlist, one temporary recruitment stall at one Metro station, and a dozen or so uniformed soldiers at the train station in St Petersburg (either on leave or returning to duty). Otherwise, you wouldn't really know Russia is 'at war'.

When we departed, I was worried about Ukrainian drones reaching Moscow. This didn't happen while we were there, but even if some had, people in Moscow didn't behave like they're afraid of such. The main inconvenience this has caused so far is flight delays when the airports are temporarily closed. Many Muscovites and Peterburgers speak or at least understand English, so the language barrier wasn't a problem. Some were surprised (and happy) to meet Westerners because so few of us visit Russia these days. None of them were even remotely hostile, more sad that Westerners don't seem to understand Russia and Russians. Anyway, the streets were nonetheless thronged with tourists because visitors from China, Japan, India, and the Middle East have 'filled in the gaps'. Plus, Russians themselves: if they're not welcome in other countries, they'll just go on holiday within their own vast country! We observed and met lots of people 'from the other Russia' in Moscow and St Pete, another sure sign that their economic conditions 'back home' provide them with sufficient disposable income to enjoy the 'expensive, not-real-Russia' of the Big Two cities.

Cleanliness and orderliness: it's true, Russia's streets are very clean. It's also true that there are next-to-no homeless people in Moscow/St Pete (I counted 6 in total, 4 of those in the latter city.) We only saw grafitti along laneways and sidestreets in what was otherwise a pretty, though somewhat ramshackle, small suburban town on the northeastern outskirts of Moscow. Taking taxis to and from our base outside Moscow to the nearest Metro terminal, we at times observed that the roadside verges and hedges were unkempt and wild... but in other, inhabited, locations, they were well-managed. In some respects, much of Moscow is indeed 'ugly', with its huge number of tower-blocks of flats ("commie-blocks") lining vast, multi-lane avenues. For the most part, however, these were at least set back from the main roads, spaced apart from each other, and interspersed with modern amenities and green spaces. Oh, and their metro stations are indeed works of art!

Another sign of order is the number (and cleanliness - luxurious, even!) of public toilets, which are always staffed by cleaners, no matter how small the facility. And Russians all use them - we encountered NO smell of urine on the streets! - even though you pay up to 100 rubles (1.20 euros) for the privilege. And they will queue to use one if they have to - sneaking off around a corner somewhere isn't even countenanced. Then there's security: surveillance cameras are everywhere, Metro security personnel are stationed throughout the underground, and you go through airport-like security everytime you enter the Metro system... and major landmarks like palaces and museums, and even some shopping malls! Heavily-armed police are stationed at key intersections in central Moscow, and both uniformed and - I suspect, plain-clothed - security personnel of either local or state police patrol its parks, churches and other landmarks.

So yeah, it's 'Big Brother Police State' conditions, and if you'd asked me ten years ago whether that was ever acceptable, I'd have said, "no, that's fascism and oppressive." But now I'm not so sure that this is always the case. Is urban Russia 'clean and orderly' because Big Brother is watching over everyone? Or is urban Russia clean and orderly because those few who would otherwise be anti-social no longer have as much 'freedom' to be so? We encountered no 'no-go zones', saw no groups of people - young men in particular - just 'hanging around' and looking shifty, sadly commonplace now in Western cities, big and small. Everyone weems to have something to do and somewhere to be, even if it's just to enjoy a leisurely stroll and listen to musicians busking on the streets or in the Metro stations. On the other side of the 'freedom equation', we DID encounter openly LGB (and possibly T!) folks, particularly in St Petersburg. So no, Russia is not 'anti-gay'. It is as it says it is: against using state and corporate powers to actively promote 'alternative and/or hedonistic lifestyles'. Otherwise, it's "classicly liberal": live and let live.

Thanks for sharing! Now the million dollar question:

What have you experienced in terms of smoking and tobacco?

 

[Niall]

Thanks for sharing! Now the million dollar question:

What have you experienced in terms of smoking and tobacco?

Officially: No smoking signs everywhere. Actually: I was only told once to 'move over there' to smoke.

'Tabak' and 'vape' stores everywhere, and something like the same ratio of smokers to non-smokers as in western EU: ~20%

 

[EmeraldR]

But Russia isn't a Western country in terms of longer term development. 20 years ago I'd say a lot of it was in a pretty poor state of repair. How much has Putin and Co. really been able to do since then, not only on the economic front but on the corrupt front?

So I'd say it's an open question as to what other smaller cities and towns are like across Russia, and that can't necessarily be inferred from looking at Moscow or St. Pete. Maybe some Russian members can let us know if they've been out to the boondocks.

Google street view only gets you so far, but from what I've seen it's a bit of a mixed bag. I used to spend some time 'driving' down street view maps of Russian towns and, on most occasions, I ended up playing a game I called "spot the house that doesn't have a rusty corrugated metal roof".

a few youtube vids on rural russian areas-

some common denominators across the world I think ;)

 

[Chu]

I don't know whether this journalist is trying to paint a particularly negative picture, but the footage kind of speaks for itself too. There seems to be a huge difference between the big cities and the countryside.

I've heard some Westerners mention that too. Many more people have it GREAT (in the cities and close to them), others really struggle.

Maybe our Russian members can tell us how they see it?

I saw the same in China and Argentina when living there. Maybe it's a symptom of "gigantism", like Lobaczewski talked about. You can do a lot in the centers of power, but 10 or even 30 years may be too short a time to make such a giant country prosper and have less corruption everywhere.

[Note: second link removed, since Emeraldr had just posted it. ]

 

[Niall]

But Russia isn't a Western country in terms of longer term development. 20 years ago I'd say a lot of it was in a pretty poor state of repair. How much has Putin and Co. really been able to do since then, not only on the economic front but on the corrupt front?

So I'd say it's an open question as to what other smaller cities and towns are like across Russia, and that can't necessarily be inferred from looking at Moscow or St. Pete. Maybe some Russian members can let us know if they've been out to the boondocks.

Google street view only gets you so far, but from what I've seen it's a bit of a mixed bag. I used to spend some time 'driving' down street view maps of Russian towns and, on most occasions, I ended up playing a game I called "spot the house that doesn't have a rusty corrugated metal roof".

I think I saw a few houses with bitumen/'shingles' as their roof finish, but yes, in this 'middle-class' suburb of Moscow they were almost all metal, albeit sheets of colored imitation tiles.

 

[Aeneas]

A brief summary?!

Thank you for your summary of impressions and thoughts. With regard to the critizism that you can not know about Russia from just 2 weeks, which is a valid critique, we should also remember that when we ourselves say that we have been somewhere outside of our native countries. The same questions can be leveled as "how long", did you travel around or just in the cities or on the beaches and the tourist attractions etc." We get impressions which are filtered through our own viewpoint and which will inevitably be subjective. Blending with the locals, speaking the language and staying for longer helps but still impressions will be subjective no matter what. I think it was great that you went and also appreciate your destilling of it.

On the show you mentioned roadwork in Moscow in Tverskaya street (the main street in Moscow) and interestingly enough it came up on my feed on X after the show. Today I looked for it and found the same video though it was from a different account and in German. Here it is:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957153500711838138

and here how it looked in 1896.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717739068770189790

 

[Keit]

Maybe our Russian members can tell us how they see it?

Some time ago I shared my perspective on a similar topic in this thread, since I currently live in Novosibirsk. It's the third largest city after Moscow and St. Petersburg. Here's the relevant part:

I agree with Yolik that in general Novosibirsk is no more corrupt than other regions. I think that Ritter mentioned Novosibirsk because his source is from Novosibirsk. It doesn't mean that Novosibirsk doesn't have serious problems, but it also doesn't mean that Novosibirsk is the only city with similar problems.[...]

Regarding corruption in the city, there is also no doubt that it exists. Novosibirsk has a lot of problems, some of the problems are increasing and soon would probably require drastic measures or changes. Some changes were already made (without giving details about local politics), but probably more will happen or need to happen.

In general life in the city is not bad. But it also depends on the neighborhood, of course. There are family oriented neighborhoods that for the most part provide a comfortable and safe life. Not to mention regions like Akademgorodok. But many do complain about stagnation. Novosibirsk is supposed to be “The capital of Siberia”, but it doesn't have this feel at all. As people say, there are much worthy candidates in Siberia for this title. Primarily because Novosibirsk doesn't have such a long and deep history as Moscow or Saint Petersburg. Also because Novosibirsk initially was built to be a commercial and industrial hub, so it doesn't have a shiny and presentable "facade" like Moscow. Here and here you can read about visiting Novosibirsk.

There is a stagnation in the city that doesn't allow for it to flourish. Some things are done (like a beautiful and big Tolmachovo airport), but some are stuck for ages (no new metro stations; no direct flights with many important destinations, like Minsk; not enough green zones in residential areas, etc.). And it is the result of either an anemic or corrupt city management. Many lost opportunities to make the city a true Siberian capital. Hopefully at some point in will change. The potential is there. For now people keep complaining about things that don't make this city particularly appealing, like a high level of dust and weird smell from nearby farms or factories. Though it doesn't happen all the time, and it could always be worse.

From time to time there are all kind of talks about all kind of plans to move the official Russian capital to another city. Either to Siberia or even to Far East, to give these regions a chance for a serious economic boost. Will see how things will develop. At least according to various predictions, things could indeed move in this direction at some point.

Here's a video as an example of how some districts in Novosibirsk look like. The video was taken a year ago.

In comparison, I live in a neighborhood that has much more modern buildings.

So I'd say it's an open question as to what other smaller cities and towns are like across Russia, and that can't necessarily be inferred from looking at Moscow or St. Pete. Maybe some Russian members can let us know if they've been out to the boondocks.

I agree. Moscow or St. Petersburg are the face of Russia, so they have to be pretty and well-maintained. But since Russia is huge, there are a lot of cities and places that look exactly like the videos above that perhaps try to present a negative image of Russia.

For example, in comparison to many places in the West of the US, Russia has a really fast and cheap internet infrastructure. Recently it has been ruined due to draconian and asinine measures by the Russian communication inquisition (Roscomnadzor) that conducts various blocking experiments primarily in the Siberian and Urals areas, but the general consensus still holds.

Most of the cities in Russia have well-developed communication and internet infrastructures, not to mention other comfort services, including super fast groceries deliveries, mass market deliveries, doorstep blood tests, etc. But there are a lot of smaller places that still lack all of these things.

5 years ago there was a story about a student who lives in a very small village (population 68 people) 200 km near Omsk (Siberia), who had to climb a tree in order to get reception and listen to lectures during Siberian winter, because due to covid everyone was sent home for remote education. The situation was solved after he wrote a desperate letter to the governor.

Another example would be gas. Russia has huge gas reserves, and yet there are entire regions, including in Siberia, that lack gas infrastructure.

This is the unfortunate reality of a huge country that only now starts to recover from deep problems. And since there is still a lot of corruption, which is also hard to totally uproot in such a huge country, there is no doubt that all kind of things will continue to persist.

I think that this was one of the reasons why Putin back in 2013 signed a law that allowed him to pick governors. This was probably the only way to fight against local interests. Regardless, it's obvious that even this system isn't perfect, but we do hear more and more about various demotions and arrests of high level officials.

Of course there are a lot of problems, but in general life in current Russia is very comfortable.

 

[Ben]

Regarding the security measures in the city, it seems to me that if I lived there I'd feel more comfortable with them than without. I see stories regularly enough these days about thwarted bomb plots or other terrorist actions in Russia, and we know that there have been successful more or less high profile incidents. As Ukraine and its handlers lose in open warfare, they talk about assymetric actions and that means using people inside the country, living among the population. We're talking about a real threat here, not the manufactured kind of state sponsored stuff we're used to in Western Europe.

 

[Niall]

Thank you for your summary of impressions and thoughts. With regard to the critizism that you can not know about Russia from just 2 weeks, which is a valid critique, we should also remember that when we ourselves say that we have been somewhere outside of our native countries. The same questions can be leveled as "how long", did you travel around or just in the cities or on the beaches and the tourist attractions etc." We get impressions which are filtered through our own viewpoint and which will inevitably be subjective. Blending with the locals, speaking the language and staying for longer helps but still impressions will be subjective no matter what. I think it was great that you went and also appreciate your destilling of it.

On the show you mentioned roadwork in Moscow in Tverskaya street (the main street in Moscow) and interestingly enough it came up on my feed on X after the show. Today I looked for it and found the same video though it was from a different account and in German. Here it is:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957153500711838138

and here how it looked in 1896.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717739068770189790

...and here's how it looked 24 hours after work commenced:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957054774081171835

 

[Niall]

Some time ago I shared my perspective on a similar topic in this thread, since I currently live in Novosibirsk. It's the third largest city after Moscow and St. Petersburg. Here's the relevant part:



Here's a video as an example of how some districts in Novosibirsk look like. The video was taken a year ago.

In comparison, I live in a neighborhood that has much more modern buildings.



I agree. Moscow or St. Petersburg are the face of Russia, so they have to be pretty and well-maintained. But since Russia is huge, there are a lot of cities and places that look exactly like the videos above that perhaps try to present a negative image of Russia.

For example, in comparison to many places in the West of the US, Russia has a really fast and cheap internet infrastructure. Recently it has been ruined due to draconian and asinine measures by the Russian communication inquisition (Roscomnadzor) that conducts various blocking experiments primarily in the Siberian and Urals areas, but the general consensus still holds.

Most of the cities in Russia have well-developed communication and internet infrastructures, not to mention other comfort services, including super fast groceries deliveries, mass market deliveries, doorstep blood tests, etc. But there are a lot of smaller places that still lack all of these things.

5 years ago there was a story about a student who lives in a very small village (population 68 people) 200 km near Omsk (Siberia), who had to climb a tree in order to get reception and listen to lectures during Siberian winter, because due to covid everyone was sent home for remote education. The situation was solved after he wrote a desperate letter to the governor.

Another example would be gas. Russia has huge gas reserves, and yet there are entire regions, including in Siberia, that lack gas infrastructure.

This is the unfortunate reality of a huge country that only now starts to recover from deep problems. And since there is still a lot of corruption, which is also hard to totally uproot in such a huge country, there is no doubt that all kind of things will continue to persist.

I think that this was one of the reasons why Putin back in 2013 signed a law that allowed him to pick governors. This was probably the only way to fight against local interests. Regardless, it's obvious that even this system isn't perfect, but we do hear more and more about various demotions and arrests of high level officials.

Of course there are a lot of problems, but in general life in current Russia is very comfortable.

Interesting, thanks.

So we've heard about major progress in Russia's big two cities, destitution in entire villages of the Tver region between those two cities, and relative stagnancy in Russia's third city.

I'm interested in how things are going in its 'small cities', cities that would actually be quite large by west European standards. These are the kinds of "mid-sized cities" that the vast majority of Russia's population lives in.

Here's a snapshot of life today in Keremovo, a city of 600,000 people, and which is located about 200km east of Novosibirsk, Siberia, from two people who know the city well, and one of whom grew up there as a child:

 

[Ricardo]

Thanks for detailed reply @Niall , was left with one question though , are its main cities ( well the ones you visited at least ) dotted all over with "cellphone towers " ? , like in western Europe ? Lisbon for sure is ( ie).