Nick Fuentes, from troll king to... leader of a true 'America First' movement?

Contrast Fuentes' appeal for calm and Left-Right spectrum-wide focus on "ostracizing those without conscience" with Matt Walsh's doubling-down on "everyone on the Left" being "my foe."


Fuentes is feared and loathed for being a "theocratic fascist," yet Walsh literally has that in his X bio, and it's he, not Fuentes, who has the big money platform. That may not be the case for much longer though, given that he's apparently signalling support for Fuentes.
 
Last edited:
Contrast Fuentes' appeal for calm and Left-Right spectrum-wide focus on "ostracizing those without conscience" with Matt Walsh's doubling-down on "everyone on the Left" being "my foe."

From the clips I have seen, I don't think Fuentes called for "unity between left and right" per se (didn't watch the whole thing though). He called for non-violence, being innocent as doves and sharp as serpents etc., but he also said things along very similar lines as Walsh, namely that those celebrating Kirk's murder, which is the left, are what we're up against in a spiritual battle (if I remember correctly).

Here's what Michael Knowles wrote, which is very careful, and very true:


You cannot reason with these people, nor should you; they need to be shunned from society and silenced. This is a precondition for those still on the left who are not pathological actors to "de-ponerize" themselves by being decoupled from their spellbinders and exposed to normality and reality 24/7.

When Walsh and others are calling for "unity on the right", there is of course always the danger that pathological elements go unchecked and stir the movement in evil directions, but this is a bridge we'll cross once we're there. It can't be an argument against the right coming together to finally do something about the iron-grip of leftist pathology and sheer inversion of reality.
 
I think it might be a good idea for us to consider what, if anything, there is beyond Fuentes' words that makes him so appealing to some.

If you listen to his take on any given topic, it's not that remarkable. objectively. Take his latest monologue on Charlie Kirk for example. He basically calls for people to be calm and not get sucked into violence, and highlights the fact that we're all going to die and we can't take any of our earthly accomplishments with us, apart from what we did. That's a 'mature' take lets say, for someone his age, but he's hardly the only one saying it right now. He's promoting basic Christian values, which millions of American Christians hold too, including men his age.

Nick speaks to the part of me that craves raw, unfiltered truth. Given recent events and his response to them, I’m beginning to think he might be the real deal.

And that's at least one thing that makes him appealing: his refusal to tiptoe around the big issues, particularly Israel, and particularly in the context of us living in a world where truth and justice are scarce. But again, there are other who do the same, Ian Carroll, Tucker, Candace, for example.

For those who claim he does not embody leadership qualities or does not have the capacity, I believe you are gravely mistaken

There's something in this comment and the way that you and others have promoted Fuentes that suggests that his appeal goes beyond his words which, as noted, are not exactly uniquely insightful. That's interesting to me because, technically, it should just be the words, if truthful, and their expression, that we ultimately value.

Of course, it's naive to expect everyone to completely detach the words from the speaker (although maybe its a good idea) and it's normal for some to idolize (or idealize) a person from whom they get a certain amount of catharsis, but it seems to me there may be something else to Fuentes. Perhaps it's the WAY he says things, the cadence of his speech, his facial expressions, (his 'baby face'?), or maybe its his 'groyper irreverence', that adds extra appeal.

Basically, I'm noticing a particular enthusiasm for Fuentes that goes beyond his actual words and that is not afforded to others who, arguably, present equally truthful information, and in some cases moreso.
 
Last edited:
Fuentes, perhaps it's the WAY he says things, the cadence of his speech, his facial expressions, (his 'baby face'?), or maybe its his 'groyper irreverence', that adds extra appeal.
I listened to that speech on Kirk - fine, every word is in place. But I can´t see the appeal. In this speech, he gives me a televangelist - wolf in sheep clothing - vibe.
 
Basically, I'm noticing a particular enthusiasm for Fuentes that goes beyond his actual words and that is not afforded to others who, arguably, present equally truthful information, and in some cases moreso.
Yes, same. Which is why I wrote what I did.
What or who (beyond Fuentes himself) is behind his words?
He gives me spellbinder vibes. Or more precisely cognitive dissonance vibes. If I follow what he’s saying part of my reasoning is disabled like being bitten by a snake who injects a numbing agent. Then comes the flood of feelings of (directed) hatred and a “very clear image of the enemy” that “must be destroyed” and behind that further is the “desire” for revenge and sadism and “certainty” and “riotousness”.
That’s my read anyway. Maybe it’s not accurate.
But that’s what I observe in myself when I listen to him.
Similar observations when listening to Tommy Robinson (although the feeling are less refined and more about bloody violence).

So maybe some good can be extracted from this.
Psychopaths and pathological types don’t generally feel fear. This allows them “certainty in their convictions” - reality based or not.
This can be misinterpreted as bravery. And for those who doubt themselves the comfort of someone else’s “powerful convictions”.

Don’t give your power away like that. Living with uncertainty is part of being human and the Work on ourselves.
Living with fear but acting bravely and strategically is also part of the Work on ourselves.

Others who speak on these topics are nuanced and complex. They don’t offer vengeance and certainty. They are sometimes scared. Some of them have faith.

Use the needs above as a clue to improve those parts of yourself. Get stronger in body and mind and spirit. Practice strategic oration and surpass Fuentes.
More so - become a leader yourself, rather than letting him (and what may be using him) lead you.
 
Of course, it's naive to expect everyone to completely detach the words from the speaker (although maybe its a good idea) and it's normal for some to idolize (or idealize) a person from whom they get a certain amount of catharsis, but it seems to me there may be something else to Fuentes, perhaps it's the WAY he says things, the cadence of his speech, his facial expressions, that adds extra appeal.

Basically, I'm noticing a particular enthusiasm for Fuentes that goes beyond his actual words and that is not afforded to others who, arguably, present equally truthful information, and in some cases moreso.

I have not watched a lot of his content and never been a fan of his, but after watching some clips the best I can come up with as an explanation for his appeal is that he (like some other right-wing types that have a smaller platform but also attract many fans especially among young men) is more edgy, more daring in his takes, and more "brilliant" as in eloquent and swift of mind. In his Charlie Kirk take, he wasn't particularly edgy, but he sure communicated it very well, and reminded me a bit of Jordan Peterson in his heyday: for example, yes, what he said about death wasn't particularly unique, but he put it very well, using interesting analogies, and without too much Christian gloss, preaching the primacy of the immaterial world. Which resonates.

The others you brought up are different: Everybody likes Tucker, but he's tip-toeing around things a lot, and framing things in familiar liberal/mainstream terms, probably partly strategically and partly because it's his own journey from mainstream fox news guy to truth teller. Candace is awesome, but she's a woman, and so she sets a different tone and lacks the aggressive edginess of a young male firebrand. Plus, since she's black, she won't touch certain things like the race stuff. Iain Carrol is great too, but he lacks the brilliance, the rhetoric skill, the ultra-fast-paced thinking on steroids.

Basically, and from what I've seen with other "edgelord" types on the right, many of these people are very bright, are into sacrificing every sacred cow there is with little care for going over the top, and have a knack for communicating in a straight-forward yet very intelligent way, while being well-versed in the complex layers of online/meme culture. This also means they can get lost in the mazes of their own brilliance and edginess, not seeing the forest for the trees and "straight-shooting while missing the mark by a mile", but it's just very appealing to bright young guys for whom the likes of Tucker and Candace just don't take it far enough, and don't speak their language.

At the end of the day, we've been through way too many iterations of "he's the real deal! He's the savior! She will change things!" and "He's a fed! He's a psyop! She's a plant!" We had these endless discussions about Alex Jones, Tucker, Jordan Peterson, David Icke, and countless others. Maybe we should just consider all these people as humans, agree with them on some things, disagree on others, observe their place in the discourse, instead of deifying or vilifying them. Some voices appeal more to some people than others, even though they might say similar things. All of this is fine, as long as we practice discernment and don't give up our mental capacity to create some distance between ourselves and these influencers, which opens up a space for our own critical thinking trying to make sense of things.

A key skill here, as always, is to resist the urge to "resolve" certain contradictions in our heads immediately to "release the pain" from that pressure, i.e. the drive to always resolve everything into a unified worldview. There might be things we are not sure about, and it's fine to keep them in your head, contradictions and all, and think about them every once in a while. Oftentimes, this results in true insights eventually. If we don't practice that, we risk accepting things just because someone said them, or reject things out of hand because they trigger those contradictions. All there is is lessons, which means the events unfolding in the world are lessons, as is the influencer landscape. It's all offers to learn and go beyond where we're currently at, carefully adjusting and fine-tuning our view of the world as we move along, as "the wave" unfolds.
 
I think it might be a good idea for us to consider what, if anything, there is beyond Fuentes' words that makes him so appealing to some.
Oration, when delivered, has a synergistic effect that transforms whatever included logic, emotion, or ethic, into an aesthetic.

Furthermore, rhetorical appeals can only go so far when you're dealing with the heuristic circuits inside everyone's brains, which eventually "trip" when a message begins to conflict with a person's thought patterns. Yet if that message is adorned with a presentation, or say a performance, that subtly bypasses an austere examination, well then you have something which can drive the preferential preponderance of the undecided masses.

At the end of the day, all you have is nothing short of marketing and brand appeal -- the production and propagation of a catered set of values, which people then use to build up their notions of esteem, style, narrative and meaning. All of this, because the near totality of people live vicariously, and are unable to individuate into something which isn't capable of being pigeonholed into a subset of contemporary culture.

If there's nothing particularly genuine, or novel about Fuentes' words, well it makes me wonder if there's any scaffolding of truth behind them in the first place. But ... the same concern is maintained over every other pundit, public persona, and politician, et.c., who eventually end up playing roles in a system of influence and manipulation that never changes.
 
I listened to that speech on Kirk - fine, every word is in place. But I can´t see the appeal. In this speech, he gives me a televangelist - wolf in sheep clothing - vibe.
That has crossed my mind, both the wolf-in-sheeps-clothing and the televangelist parts.

First time I've seen fire-and-brimstone sermons combined with (accurate) geopolitical analysis though.

Russia has Aleksandr Dugin, who has a similar 'eschatological take' to ours, but he's way more circumspect than Fuentes about 'the source of the terror'.

EDIT: Wait, duh! THE 'fire-and-brimstone-combined-with-some-geopolitics-and-loads-of-conspiracy-theories' guy before Fuentes was Alex Jones. Well, back in the day we thought he might herald the coming of a 'dominionist' Christian army. In today's climate though, he's a relative moderate!
 
Last edited:
Psychopaths and pathological types don’t generally feel fear. This allows them “certainty in their convictions” - reality based or not.
This can be misinterpreted as bravery. And for those who doubt themselves the comfort of someone else’s “powerful convictions”.
Good to apply ponerological analysis to this. 'Spellbinder' or 'asthenic psychopathy' come to mind. What weighs against that, however, is that we live in a time of 'maturing' or even full-blown pathocracy, and Fuentes isn't 'on the team' - that is, in govt, or a proven 'paid agitator'. Not yet anyway, or not that we know of yet anyway.
 
Basically, and from what I've seen with other "edgelord" types on the right, many of these people are very bright, are into sacrificing every sacred cow there is with little care for going over the top, and have a knack for communicating in a straight-forward yet very intelligent way, while being well-versed in the complex layers of online/meme culture. This also means they can get lost in the mazes of their own brilliance and edginess, not seeing the forest for the trees and "straight-shooting while missing the mark by a mile", but it's just very appealing to bright young guys for whom the likes of Tucker and Candace just don't take it far enough, and don't speak their language.

At the end of the day, we've been through way too many iterations of "he's the real deal! He's the savior! She will change things!" and "He's a fed! He's a psyop! She's a plant!" We had these endless discussions about Alex Jones, Tucker, Jordan Peterson, David Icke, and countless others. Maybe we should just consider all these people as humans, agree with them on some things, disagree on others, observe their place in the discourse, instead of deifying or vilifying them. Some voices appeal more to some people than others, even though they might say similar things. All of this is fine, as long as we practice discernment and don't give up our mental capacity to create some distance between ourselves and these influencers, which opens up a space for our own critical thinking trying to make sense of things.
In a way, Fuentes isn't even what's interesting here: what's interesting is the state of mind of the mass of people he 'speaks for'. Just as we noted what crazy students and academics were coming out with a decade ago, then watched in horror as they graduated from universities and their ideology was rolled out across pubic and private institutions, 'the Fuentes vibe' warns us what could be coming next.
 
What weighs against that, however, is that we live in a time of 'maturing' or even full-blown pathocracy, and Fuentes isn't 'on the team' - that is, in govt, or a proven 'paid agitator'. Not yet anyway, or not that we know of yet anyway.
Agreed. So we’ll see how he goes.

I really do find it an interesting exercise in learning the art of communication.
Just like any more masculine traits it may be worth learning to use our voices with conviction - should the need (strategically speaking) calls for it.
I’m including myself here.

If we can see how it works with ourselves we can learn it. If we understand how it works on ourselves we will know when and when not to use it (perhaps never), keeping strategic enclosure in mind.
 
Oration, when delivered, has a synergistic effect that transforms whatever included logic, emotion, or ethic, into an aesthetic.

Furthermore, rhetorical appeals can only go so far when you're dealing with the heuristic circuits inside everyone's brains, which eventually "trip" when a message begins to conflict with a person's thought patterns. Yet if that message is adorned with a presentation, or say a performance, that subtly bypasses an austere examination, well then you have something which can drive the preferential preponderance of the undecided masses.

At the end of the day, all you have is nothing short of marketing and brand appeal -- the production and propagation of a catered set of values, which people then use to build up their notions of esteem, style, narrative and meaning. All of this, because the near totality of people live vicariously, and are unable to individuate into something which isn't capable of being pigeonholed into a subset of contemporary culture.

If there's nothing particularly genuine, or novel about Fuentes' words, well it makes me wonder if there's any scaffolding of truth behind them in the first place. But ... the same concern is maintained over every other pundit, public persona, and politician, et.c., who eventually end up playing roles in a system of influence and manipulation that never changes.

That's a pretty awesome analysis IMO.
 
I think it might be a good idea for us to consider what, if anything, there is beyond Fuentes' words that makes him so appealing to some.

If you listen to his take on any given topic, it's not that remarkable. objectively. Take his latest monologue on Charlie Kirk for example. He basically calls for people to be calm and not get sucked into violence, and highlights the fact that we're all going to die and we can't take any of our earthly accomplishments with us, apart from what we did. That's a 'mature' take lets say, for someone his age, but he's hardly the only one saying it right now. He's promoting basic Christian values, which millions of American Christians hold too, including men his age.



And that's at least one thing that makes him appealing: his refusal to tiptoe around the big issues, particularly Israel, and particularly in the context of us living in a world where truth and justice are scarce. But again, there are other who do the same, Ian Carroll, Tucker, Candace, for example.



There's something in this comment and the way that you and others have promoted Fuentes that suggests that his appeal goes beyond his words which, as noted, are not exactly uniquely insightful. That's interesting to me because, technically, it should just be the words, if truthful, and their expression, that we ultimately value.

Of course, it's naive to expect everyone to completely detach the words from the speaker (although maybe its a good idea) and it's normal for some to idolize (or idealize) a person from whom they get a certain amount of catharsis, but it seems to me there may be something else to Fuentes. Perhaps it's the WAY he says things, the cadence of his speech, his facial expressions, (his 'baby face'?), or maybe its his 'groyper irreverence', that adds extra appeal.

Basically, I'm noticing a particular enthusiasm for Fuentes that goes beyond his actual words and that is not afforded to others who, arguably, present equally truthful information, and in some cases moreso.
Thanks for bringing this up Joe. Was wanting to comment something similar but unsure how to put it into words.

Does Fuentes really reach conclusions that we here can't or haven't reached on our own? Why the elevation of one person, and really, of this person? His ideas are not that groundbreaking, and I don't see him as brave or courageous for saying them.

He fuels the justified anger in people who wish this world gave more balanced justice and brings that front and center. What you do with that is up to you, but I would caution slapping "leadership" qualities on him, by a long mile.
 
Back
Top Bottom