Nightmare

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Several nights ago, I had a nightmare (I woke up in sweat and felt like crying) that has been with me since and that I cannot shake.

I dreamt that the money generated by Lady Gaga’s success (sorry EVGV!!! :)) was directly used by the music industry to invest in kid porn, since it was the most lucrative industry in the world after all. It was not even hidden, and it was presented like a sound business decision. Gaga herself had been swindled into believing she was doing something good for humankind by promoting pedophilia. She was making conferences where she was encouraging people to confess their sexual urges for their own children, making them feel at last accepted. This was seen by everyone as progress. The people who were testifying, feeling more and more at ease, were saying the most horrible things about what they wanted to do (or actually did) to these children. I was crying, I was horrified at that latest trick the psychopaths were playing on us: using ‘freedom of choice’ and ‘respect of differences’ as a tool to protect their nasty deeds.

And since that dream, I have read about new pedophile stories every day in the news as a report about black masses and snuff movies in France. I’ll be honest, I haven’t had the strength to watch it. I’m still trying to process books I read about this and think about these poor kids every single day. I think about it every time I see a child, basically (and since I have a daughter and work in a school, it’s a lot).

Is it me or is there actually more of this kind of horror every day? Or is it the same as before but now people more readily report about it? How do you guys deal with that kind of books/reports? I personally seem not to be able to 'deal with it' to the point where I no longer want to watch the above-mentioned documentary, for example. When I read Programmed to Kill, McGowan was writing about the pedophile industry in Belgium and I learned a lot. But there was also very graphic depictions and I was wondering: is it really something I need to know? I mean, I KNOW that they are torturing and raping these kids, do I need to know how in details? Are these details helping my knowledge and hence my protection (and my daughter's)? If so, I'm willing to do it. But for the moment, it just feels like it's eating a part of my soul. Sorry to be melodramatic but I have no other way of describing it.

Thank you for reading this.

 

[Niall]

I don't know the answer to that Mrs Tigersoap, but I've had the same dilemma when it comes to learning the details. I began Programmed to Kill 3 years ago, made it about halfway, then put the book down and haven't picked it up since. So I'll try to answer it now.

I think it's enough to have some idea of the scale of the depravity and that it is most concentrated in circles of power.

Laura wrote somewhere about the danger of staring the beast directly in the face for too long, or something to that effect. I think that applies here. Skim around the edges, get an idea of the evil, then look away. BUT, remember it always and be open to opportunities to communicate the reality to others.

 

[Gimpy]

I have the same problem. There are movies and documentaries that I just can't get through or even watch. (The latest being "The Girl Who.." series of movies, "The Girl who kicked a Hornets Nest, Played with Fire, etc.)

If you've never known about how those circles operate, learning about them is one thing, but when you know more about it, its normal to need to take breaks from it or skip 'gory details'.

Fwiw, I will read certain books about the subject, but it takes a very long time, many showers, lots of hugs with my Hubby, and POTS all the way through. STS thrives on our pain, and when I know its going to wreck my mind and then my health to read about horrors of this nature, I choose to reinforce the boundaries and make lots of room for healing along the way.

I'm in agreement with Kniall...there is nothing wrong with pacing yourself and taking time away to heal up Tigersoap. You're a mom, and I see no sense in hurting yourself further.

 

[cassandra]

Kniall, would you remember where Laura warned us about staring directly at the beast for too long?
Mrs. Tigersoap, I can relate. I always know where my younger daughter is at all times. I think most parents do not leave their kids the freedom we used to have because of today's awareness of child predators. I could leave the house early in the morning when I was a child, and only appear at mealtimes (some places were off-limits, of course.)
I only knew about pedophilia during my very late teens. I even used to spend the night with a close friend whose father was a pedophile. Luckily, he didn't touch me, but I was aware of a flirtatiousness between him and his daughter.
But yes, this kind of knowledge is so sickening to the heart, it's best not dwelt on too much. Beautiful music, nature, poetry , funny games, etc. provide a balm against evil.
We often have plenty of young people in the house, which does the heart good.

 

[Niall]

Here it is:

It's from a thread on satanism.

I am very sorry that you were exposed to this kind of horror and ugliness in our world. I had my own close brushes with such things and one thing I know is this: do not stare too long into the pit because something in there is staring back. Standing up for light to illuminate darkness is problematical enough, one doesn't want to grab the tiger by the tail.

 

[cassandra]

Thank you, Kniall! (I don't mind if you delete this, BTW)

 

[truth seeker]

Well, a big for what it's worth but I think as with anything else, there needs to be a balance. Some stuff is important to be aware of so we can better discern one situation from another. That being said, to focus on that stuff all the time does harm, not only to you but to the child as it feeds into fear and can inhibit the child's growth because they become restricted.

What understanding I have comes from two views as a child. The first was being in situations as a child where there was either molestation or molestation attempts. The second was having a mother who chose to ignore a lot of stuff - her fears prevented her from being able to be an advocate for me. That same tendency to ignore or not want to face things led her to give me a lot of free reign in leaving decisions up to me at ages when I was too young to take on such responsibilities.

I think both views or experiences are related to each other in that her own fears were passed down to me. I currently believe that this same fear was picked up by predators and gave them the confidence to try what they did.

I think it's a very difficult line to walk and every situation you find yourself in with your daughter needs to be dealt with differently. My best advice to you as a former caregiver is to develop a trusting relationship with your child - one where they feel comfortable coming to you with anything or at least most things. The second is to arm your child with information concerning predators but to do so in an age appropriate fashion and at the same time expressing concern but not passing your own terrors down to her. Your doing well, I think, in trying to get to the bottom of your fears as they will help you to be as objective as possible when relaying such information to her. In other words, help her to develop her own discernment.

In my opinion, I think too many parents feel uncomfortable talking about certain subjects with their children and feel that once they finally gear themselves up, that having only one talk 'does the job'. Either that or they go the other way and hover so much that it pushes the child away. I think such things need to be a part of the natural fabric of the relationship while at the same time not overwhelming them with it. Do a lot of listening and try to hear what is really being said in earnest - they will be more willing to listen to you when you have something to say.

One book that I thought was really good (for adults) is Anna Salter's Predators. While the first 1/3 to 1/2 can be a bit overwhelming, I think it gives enough of an understanding into the minds of such people and more importantly, lets us know what to look for. Don't know if you've read it but I immediately thought of you when I did. Not sure if that helps.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Here it is:

It's from a thread on satanism.

I am very sorry that you were exposed to this kind of horror and ugliness in our world. I had my own close brushes with such things and one thing I know is this: do not stare too long into the pit because something in there is staring back. Standing up for light to illuminate darkness is problematical enough, one doesn't want to grab the tiger by the tail.

That was me that Laura was addressing in that thread. I have been staring down the abyss as long as I can remember, honestly. When Laura typed that response to me, it made me cry my eyes out. It was the first time EVER that anyone had ever really acknowledged the horror and uglyness to me. Most people, when and if that subject ever comes up, will turn away or change the subject, and they most certainly do not want the details.

I know that personality typing isn't an exact science, but my abyss staring even shows up there:

_http://www.purdue.edu/usp/pdfs/mbtiresources/INFP.pdf

The deep commitment of INFPs to the positive and the good causes them to be alert to the negative and the evil,
which can take the form of a fascination with the profane. Thus, INFPs may live a paradox, drawn
toward purity and unity but looking over the shoulder toward the sullied and desecrated. When INFPs
believe that they have yielded to an impure temptation, they may be given to acts of self-sacrifice in
atonement. The atonement, however, is within the INFP, who does not feel compelled to make public the
issue.

The problem is I do on some level I DO want to grab the tiger by the tail, because very few people in this world will do anything to help the weak and defenseless or to acknowledge a lot of these issues. And it is not just in high power levels. I personally know many women who were sexually abused by their fathers. One friend of mine was given to many men by her father at eight years old. He was a businessman- nothing too special.

I am trying really hard to resolve this, but if I had to take on that tiger to protect an innocent victim I would do it. I've done it all of my life. Because no one did it for me. I am having a very hard time really understanding where to draw the line on free will there. If more people had to really, really face the horror and details things would be so much different. Hopefully with a lot ore reading I can get this kink out.

That being said, I am glad that you all can just put it down. Perhaps it is just most likely that the least damaged of us have the greatest chance to complete the work and turn the tide.

 

[Laurentien2]

Posté par: Mrs.Tigersoap « le: Aujourd'hui à 03:56:07 am »

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But for the moment, it just feels like it's eating a part of my soul.

I felt the same way last week, Mrs.Tigersoap. Watching videos on a sott article about the cruelty in Libya done by the rebels. I couldn't take it anymore, I needed a break from witnessing this nonhuman behavior, been watching the beast in the eye for too long. I disconnected myself by taking my daughter camping and fishing deep in the "wilderness" and slowly felt love for this world coming back. I don't know, I just feel, from the last session, that we reached recently a point of no return, that the dice stopped rolling. I now feel a urge to spend much good time with my family, to look a the other face of the universe, the creative beauty of it nature. It was difficult to leave the natural environment after a few days and coming back to this civilization. Both would have stay much longer, neither wanted to come back from the sheltering forest and have decided to repeat the experience this summer.

Like I said, I feel that I need to spend as much good time with my daughter and wife this summer to help me balance the load of evil I witness in this world daily. Hard time is coming, preparing myself and my family to face it is what I will be focusing on this summer. Without closing my eyes or looking away from the beast, I will balance it with nature is beauty and creativity.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Laura wrote somewhere about the danger of staring the beast directly in the face for too long, or something to that effect. I think that applies here. Skim around the edges, get an idea of the evil, then look away. BUT, remember it always and be open to opportunities to communicate the reality to others.

Thank you for this, Kniall. It helps. I never really know up to what point I need to read/watch the details (stare at the beast). I do remember it always (how can one forget? Once you read that stuff, there is no unknowing it) and share as much as possible/appropriate (to friends and clients who ask me about it for example).

I'm in agreement with Kniall...there is nothing wrong with pacing yourself and taking time away to heal up Tigersoap. You're a mom, and I see no sense in hurting yourself further.

Thank you, Gimpy. For some reason, I sometimes need a reminder that it's OK to follow this feeling of 'I've had enough'. I feel like a coward who wants to stay blind. But I'm not, really. I do read articles, books, etc. on the subject (those recommended by the QFS).

Mrs. Tigersoap, I can relate. I always know where my younger daughter is at all times. I think most parents do not leave their kids the freedom we used to have because of today's awareness of child predators. I could leave the house early in the morning when I was a child, and only appear at mealtimes (some places were off-limits, of course.)

Same here. I was gone literally all day long on my own and I was not even 10. It's like there was no pedophiles back then!

I only knew about pedophilia during my very late teens. I even used to spend the night with a close friend whose father was a pedophile. Luckily, he didn't touch me, but I was aware of a flirtatiousness between him and his daughter.

My mother told me very early on (5 or 6 years old) 'Never ever accept candy from a stranger, never talk nor follow a stranger', which is good advice. But when you read Anne Salter's Predators, you can see that it's a bit more complicated than that: predators are usually friends or family, they take a long time to approach their prey, gain their trust, etc.

Well, a big for what it's worth but I think as with anything else, there needs to be a balance. Some stuff is important to be aware of so we can better discern one situation from another. That being said, to focus on that stuff all the time does harm, not only to you but to the child as it feeds into fear and can inhibit the child's growth because they become restricted.

I agree (FWIW as well :)). I think about it very often because I'm around kids a lot. I never had that talk with my daughter, but we seize the opportunity when she talks about it: once a kid in her class (she's 5) asked her to show him her genitals or he would hit her. My daughter told us right away (I am happy she feels she can talk to us) and I explained that should it happen again, we would go and see the teacher and in the meantime, nobody has any business seeing, touching her genitals, and that she should always tell mummy and daddy if that was the case. She seemed reassured and there were no further incident.

There is fear in me (for her), of course. But not to the extent where I would close my eyes or not talk to my daughter. But I am very careful who my daughter is in contact with.

I don't think I have given her a fear of the outside, of people. She is very open and at ease in social situations. But you are right in reminding me that I have to be careful about that.

One book that I thought was really good (for adults) is Anna Salter's Predators. While the first 1/3 to 1/2 can be a bit overwhelming, I think it gives enough of an understanding into the minds of such people and more importantly, lets us know what to look for. Don't know if you've read it but I immediately thought of you when I did. Not sure if that helps.

That was not an easy read, but I did read it! It was indeed very informative. I discovered many things that I did not suspect and in that respect, it gave me an edge I did not have before. But some stories in the book are also burned for ever in my mind.
Thanks for your input, Truth Seeker.

 

[RedFox]

fwiw it may be worth remembering that the EE program is there to help us balance being able to 'look the beast in the eye'.
Along those lines, the dream may represent processing of some emotional wounds and it just chose that form for 'emotional impact'. On the flip side, there does seem to be some HAARP like activity (lots of people acting up/going crazy) going on recently.

If the dream happened on the night after doing the full EE program perhaps skip the round breathing next time, if not perhaps you need to do EE more?

 

[cassandra]

I only knew about pedophilia during my very late teens. I even used to spend the night with a close friend whose father was a pedophile. Luckily, he didn't touch me, but I was aware of a flirtatiousness between him and his daughter.

My mother told me very early on (5 or 6 years old) 'Never ever accept candy from a stranger, never talk nor follow a stranger', which is good advice. But when you read Anne Salter's Predators, you can see that it's a bit more complicated than that: predators are usually friends or family, they take a long time to approach their prey, gain their trust, etc.

My parents told me the same, but sex...? I was horrified when my friends told me at 7 someday I would have "pyramids" every month.
Actually, my mother was quite innocent too, but I had a very strong bond with her, and could tell her everything, so I think that did offer some protection, but not enough to know how to assert myself in certain situations.
I told/tell my daughters never let anyone touch you in places your swimming costume covers, and if you feel funny about someone, anyone, stay away.
Also, come to me if someone touches you, no matter what. If I'm not there, tell an adult. Always.
I think we'll have another talk tonight.

 

[Mr.Anderson]

EmeraldHope

The problem is I do on some level I DO want to grab the tiger by the tail, because very few people in this world will do anything to help the weak and defenseless or to acknowledge a lot of these issues

I would stare at the beast until it has no more power over you. I could be wrong, but I think your dream will help you face and go deep into your fear which will help insure that your family will stay safe. Like facing the fear is like an anticipatory function that insures it won't manifest. The way anticipation pushes things away.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Without closing my eyes or looking away from the beast, I will balance it with nature is beauty and creativity.

Thank you for sharing, Laurentien. This is what I want to continue to do as well. Spending time with my family or friends, sharing, laughing, etc. Enjoying the 'little' moments.

fwiw it may be worth remembering that the EE program is there to help us balance being able to 'look the beast in the eye'.
Along those lines, the dream may represent processing of some emotional wounds and it just chose that form for 'emotional impact'. On the flip side, there does seem to be some HAARP like activity (lots of people acting up/going crazy) going on recently. If the dream happened on the night after doing the full EE program perhaps skip the round breathing next time, if not perhaps you need to do EE more?

That's true. My dream occured this weekend, one or two days before my EE session. The EE helped a bit in terms of remembering that the universe is a beautiful place. But the following days, seeing all these news about pedophilia, my nightmare came back, more present and it 'got hold of me'.

I do the full EE (with beatha) once a week, parts of it at least once a week and the breathing and POTS every night. I used to do the beatha twice a week but it was processing stuff too quickly for me.

I told/tell my daughters never let anyone touch you in places your swimming costume covers, and if you feel funny about someone, anyone, stay away.Also, come to me if someone touches you, no matter what. If I'm not there, tell an adult. Always.I think we'll have another talk tonight.

That's a clever way of putting it!

I would stare at the beast until it has no more power over you.

Do you mean, read detailed reports of these tortures until I feel nothing anymore? Oh boy, I don't know, Mr Anderson. Don't you think one would just emotionally shutdown completely to protect oneself? I read the books on predators, read the articles, I look for news every day and come across unsavoury stuff and disgusting acts. I cope with it. I'm not burying my head in the sand or anything. It's just the crude details I'm not sure I need, you know?

I think I understand what you are saying, but I think that the beast is way more powerful than I, unfortunately.

 

[HiThere]

Do you mean, read detailed reports of these tortures until I feel nothing anymore? Oh boy, I don't know, Mr Anderson. Don't you think one would just emotionally shutdown completely to protect oneself? I read the books on predators, read the articles, I look for news every day and come across unsavoury stuff and disgusting acts. I cope with it. I'm not burying my head in the sand or anything. It's just the crude details I'm not sure I need, you know?

I think I understand what you are saying, but I think that the beast is way more powerful than I, unfortunately.

Quote from: Mr Anderson
I would stare at the beast until it has no more power over you....Like facing the fear is like an anticipatory function that insures it won't manifest. The way anticipation pushes things away.

I identify with the strategy you describe, Mr Anderson. It seems to work for me to face the fear when it is necessary, but for me it has been important to pick my battles, and don't expose myself to this when I feel at an disadvantage in regards to control of self.
I try to read/learn about this stuff in portions only when I feel in control over my emotions, and won't be surprised or shocked by what I learn.
For me facing this fear of evil usually happens separated from reading/learning about the atrocities of this world, and in those situations it works for me to face the evil, because the fear then usually dissolves.