Open Mindedness, objective "morality" about eating

[Esote]

[quote author= Sow]I wouldn't really say that life and death are the same in their essence : birth and death are complementary opposites, life encompasses both...

Yes, but it is the start of new lessons for both transitions. And creation is nothing more than a school. So in essence it's the same?

I got that from the C’s. I figured that is what they meant?

[quote author= November 16, 1994 ]Q: (L) Is this transitioning of energy from higher densities into third density or solid matter kind of a traumatic event for universal energy?
A: Subjective.
Q: (L) Is it a form of death?
A: Death and birth are the same.
Q: (L) Was it a requirement to be on a planet with a dying star for this remolecularization to take place?
A: If 3rd density remolecularization.
Q: (L) So, for energy to go into 3rd density physical level... is energy moving down when it comes into 3rd level?
A: No. Upward. [/quote]
[/quote]
That's it : Death and birth are the same, which is Life...

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Sow]Really pathological I guess, for 'patho' means suffering in Greek, which is a main lesson on the BBM.[/quote]

Yes, pain teaches. Shocks are necessary for evolution.

And to extent on this :

[quote author= January 27, 1996 ]Q: (PZ) So, I should continue to pray?
A: All goes to 6th density.
Q: (PZ) Okay, let's say that I have a little child who is dying of leukemia, and I am praying with everything in me, and the child dies anyway. I don't get it. What's the deal here?
A: Wrong. If child dies, that is your lesson profile. [/quote]

[quote author= December 5, 1994 ]Q: (L) I would like to know what is the Karmic ramification of the killing of those two little boys in South Carolina by their mother? Everybody in the U.S. will be interested in this one, maybe not Katmandu, though.
A: Pain teaches.
Q: (L) And, in this case is the mother suffering the pain?
A: And all others involved including the whole nation. All is lessons.
Q: (L) Did these two little boys volunteer to come in for this purpose?
A: Yes. Were higher density beings on mission.
[/quote]

There are less dramatic ways to learn. But it all depends on the students of the school.


That doesn't mean that all suffering has purpose. The forces of Entropy invite destruction and suffering for the sole purpose of derailing one's life lessons/path and to feed of the induced suffering.

 

[Zar]

[quote author= Sow]Really pathological I guess, for 'patho' means suffering in Greek, which is a main lesson on the BBM.

Yes, pain teaches. Shocks are necessary for evolution.

And to extent on this :

[quote author= January 27, 1996 ]Q: (PZ) So, I should continue to pray?
A: All goes to 6th density.
Q: (PZ) Okay, let's say that I have a little child who is dying of leukemia, and I am praying with everything in me, and the child dies anyway. I don't get it. What's the deal here?
A: Wrong. If child dies, that is your lesson profile. [/quote]

[quote author= December 5, 1994 ]Q: (L) I would like to know what is the Karmic ramification of the killing of those two little boys in South Carolina by their mother? Everybody in the U.S. will be interested in this one, maybe not Katmandu, though.
A: Pain teaches.
Q: (L) And, in this case is the mother suffering the pain?
A: And all others involved including the whole nation. All is lessons.
Q: (L) Did these two little boys volunteer to come in for this purpose?
A: Yes. Were higher density beings on mission.
[/quote]

There are less dramatic ways to learn. But it all depends on the students of the school.


That doesn't mean that all suffering has purpose. The forces of Entropy invite destruction and suffering for the sole purpose of derailing one's life lessons/path and to feed of the induced suffering.
[/quote]

Just some thoughts but aren't the forces of entropy also part of the school/lessons, and if that's the case wouldn't they also have their lessons to learn while being part of yours. If "all is a lesson" then all suffering would have a purpose, just like everything else OSIT. This reminds me of an interesting discussion with the C's about thought centers.

Q: (L) And was it eclipsed by interacting with a thought center energy that was part of or all of something or someone else?

A: Or, was what happened a conflicting of one energy thought center that was a part of your thought process and another energy thought center that was another part of your thought process? We will ask you that question and allow you to contemplate.

Q: (L) Was it?

A: We will ask you that question and allow you to contemplate.

Q: (L) Does it ever happen that individuals who perceive or think they perceive themselves to have experienced an "abduction," to actually be interacting with some part of themselves?

A: That would be a very good possibility. Now, before you ask another question, stop and contemplate for a moment: what possibilities does this open up? Is there any limit? And if there is, what is that? Is it not an area worth exploring?

Q: (L) Okay, help me out here...

A: For example, just one example for you to digest. What if the abduction scenario could take place where your soul projection, in what you perceive as the future, can come back and abduct your soul projection in what you perceive as the present?

Q: (L) Oh, dear! Does this happen?

A: This is a question for you to ask yourself and contemplate.

Q: (L) Why would I do that to myself? (J) To gain knowledge of the future.

A: Are there not a great many possible answers?

Q: (L) Well, this seemed to be a very frightening and negative experience. If that is the case: a. maybe that is just my perception, or b. then, in the future I am not a very nice person! (J) Or maybe the future isn't very pleasant. And the knowledge that you gained of it is unpleasant.

A: Or is it one possible future, but not all possible futures? And is the pathway of free will not connected to all of this?

Q: (L) God! I hope so.

I agree that the method of eating the frog alive is pathological, although if you think about it couldn't the frog be the man in a previous density/timeline. So he could be feeding on himself, while allowing the forces of entropy to feed of him since they can be him in a one possible timeline. As above so below... I may be veering off from the topic here/misunderstanding the material.

Onemen

I just wanted to be sure If i was right to be more outraged about the reactions than the actual eating customs.
We feed on life to survive so weither you end his life by eating it alive (take an other less extreme exemple : oysters), or you end its live before cooking it for feeding, does the former suffer more (more pathological) than the later in the process or it's the same in the end ?

That's a good question, in the case of the animal I would think it suffers more if eaten alive(assuming it feels pain?) and further that suffering probably transfers to the human when consumed.

Edit: also I wonder if by causing more suffering/interaction do lower density forms learn faster?

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Thinkingfingers]Just some thoughts but aren't the forces of entropy also part of the school/lessons, and if that's the case wouldn't they also have their lessons to learn while being part of yours. If "all is a lesson" then all suffering would have a purpose, just like everything else OSIT.[/quote]

If your path is guiding you towards a singular course of Entropy you just end up as rock again. They don't learn. And the cases of 4STS turning to STO are extremely rare if I recall the C's. But they do offer hard lessons for others because of the environment they cause. Environments STO cannot provide. But that doesn't mean that all suffering inflicted is simply part of the school. Of course all experiences offer opportunities to learn, so in a sense it is. But evil deeds can be just that, evil deeds. That weren't part of the orginal 'lesson profile'. And this might mess things up badly for souls. OSIT.


[quote author= Thinkingfingers]although if you think about it couldn't the frog be the man in a previous density/timeline. So he could be feeding on himself[/quote]

Animal kingdom is a soul-group I believe? So tracing yourself exactly back might not work like that? but I don't know how it exactly works.


[quote author= Thinkingfingers]Edit: also I wonder if by causing more suffering/interaction do lower density forms learn faster?[/quote]

Mass suffering invites planetary destruction and total reset. Meaning that the environment stopped functioning as a school. Suffering can provide the right shocks, but it can also leave souls astray.

 

[Zar]

Animal kingdom is a soul-group I believe? So tracing yourself exactly back might not work like that? but I don't know how it exactly works.

Yes you are right, this completely slipped my mind.

Edit: also I wonder if by causing more suffering/interaction do lower density forms learn faster?

Mass suffering invites planetary destruction and total reset. Meaning that the environment stopped functioning as a school. Suffering can provide the right shocks, but it can also leave souls astray.

I guess with higher density interaction there can be greater learning and/or suffering but there must be a proper balance to maintain the school.

 

[taratai]

If your path is guiding you towards a singular course of Entropy you just end up as rock again. They don't learn.

Are you sure that they don't? :P
Learning how to screw up and become a rock again is still learning.

Suffering can provide the right shocks, but it can also leave souls astray.

Which is also part of the lesson. For those that suffer and those that are watching them.

 

[Eol]

That doesn't mean that all suffering has purpose. The forces of Entropy invite destruction and suffering for the sole purpose of derailing one's life lessons/path and to feed of the induced suffering.

If your path is guiding you towards a singular course of Entropy you just end up as rock again. They don't learn. And the cases of 4STS turning to STO are extremely rare if I recall the C's. But they do offer hard lessons for others because of the environment they cause. Environments STO cannot provide. But that doesn't mean that all suffering inflicted is simply part of the school. Of course all experiences offer opportunities to learn, so in a sense it is. But evil deeds can be just that, evil deeds. That weren't part of the orginal 'lesson profile'. And this might mess things up badly for souls. OSIT.

I would say that all suffering has a purpose since entropy(disorder) is one of the aspect of the univers with creation(order). The interaction between opposites and the infinite systems of compensation generated is what brings mouvement(lessons) to the whole.
I agree that in a sense, purely STS beings can only learn superficially (in order to pursuit their personal desires and avoid suffering), not deeply which could bring the possibility to follow the STA path.
Regarding the subject of STS turning into STO, i think that this possibility is almost only available for those who, before being oriented STS, were STO by essence (like humans and the metaphore of the fall and the idea that it's a reccurent patern in the universe according to the C's). For me, a purely STS being, by essence, can not become a STO being.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Eol]I would say that all suffering has a purpose since entropy(disorder) is one of the aspect of the universe with creation(order). The interaction between opposites and the infinite systems of compensation generated is what brings movement(lessons) to the whole.[/quote]

Yes, those opposites (STS vs STO) offers balance thus lessons. So 4STS is part of the school. But that doesn't mean that everything that has happened and will happen was simply meant to be. It's even a bit new agy to say so and can take away the urge to take responsibility for the bad things that happen around us.

4STS interferes with free will. Meaning they interfere with the intended course of lessons laid out prior in 5D. Remember, Contemplation zone (5D) reveals needed destiny. Seek for lesson profile, mission profile, fate and destiny in the sessions for more about this. The paths we choose (reincarnate with) are in-tented to follow a certain course of events.

4STS intents to steer souls away from their lessons/missions. It is true that this harsh environment 4STS provides is needed for souls that must learn the hard way. So in a way 4STS serves this function of the school, but 4STS surely does not intent to let those souls learn their lessons.

There is purpose in conscious suffering, the opposite of that is unconscious suffering. I don't think it will serve us well if we get to 'romanticized' about the latter.

There are all kinds of ways to learn lessons, less dramatic ways. Let's aim for those.



[quote author= taratai][quote author= bjorn]If your path is guiding you towards a singular course of Entropy you just end up as rock again. They don't learn.[/quote]

Are you sure that they don't? :P
Learning how to screw up and become a rock again is still learning.[/quote]

100% STS is not exactly A class student ;) In fact, they have to start over again at 1D if that happens. It's my impression that you start with a clean state in 1D. They indeed only serve as an example how not to screw up. OSIT.



[quote author= Thinkingfingers]I guess with higher density interaction there can be greater learning and/or suffering but there must be a proper balance to maintain the school.[/quote]

Yes I think so, schools can either function badly or serve us properly. But being able to see all lessons within is 6D STO stuff. Some souls are destined in a way to become Evil, STS is necessary for balance. But how this exactly plays out should be impossible to fully understand for 3STS beings. To be able to see the lesson within one must first and foremost been through this learning progress ''her/him'' self



[quote author= Eol][quote author= bjorn]Suffering can provide the right shocks, but it can also leave souls astray.[/quote]

Which is also part of the lesson. For those that suffer and those that are watching them.[/quote]

In a way everthing can be a lesson. But that's up to us, when we suffer, it's better to suffer consciously instead of unconsciously :)

 

[taratai]

100% STS is not exactly A class student ;) In fact, they have to start over again at 1D if that happens. It's my impression that you start with a clean state in 1D. They indeed only serve as an example how not to screw up. OSIT.

But what if their class isn't about reading books, but burning them? They're definitely top A students in that.

Fire exists to burn, and it can only do that. Is fire burning through the forest a "bad student", because it's avoiding lessons on how to become water?

 

[3DStudent]

100% STS is not exactly A class student ;) In fact, they have to start over again at 1D if that happens. It's my impression that you start with a clean state in 1D. They indeed only serve as an example how not to screw up. OSIT.

But what if their class isn't about reading books, but burning them? They're definitely top A students in that.

Fire exists to burn, and it can only do that. Is fire burning through the forest a "bad student", because it's avoiding lessons on how to become water?

Good point. Things like psychopaths and 4D STS are there for balance and for learning. But they sure can screw things up for some! In the end I think it's like the Lord of the Rings quote (my bold):

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

And that depends on who we are, as in making free will choices. So it's up to each person to choose which path to follow: destruction or creation.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= taratai]But what if their class isn't about reading books, but burning them? They're definitely top A students in that.

Fire exists to burn, and it can only do that. Is fire burning through the forest a "bad student", because it's avoiding lessons on how to become water?[/quote]
Yes, I think so to. That's why I said:

But they do offer hard lessons for others because of the environment they cause. Environments STO cannot provide.

Yes, those opposites (STS vs STO) offers balance thus lessons. So 4STS is part of the school.

It is true that this harsh environment 4STS provides is needed for souls that must learn the hard way. So in a way 4STS serves this function of the school

Some souls are destined in a way to become Evil, STS is necessary for balance.

OSIT.

 

[onemen]

So
There are conscious suffering which enable to learn lessons consciously / give knowledge of how to grow and which lead to creation/order/awakening...
and
inconscious suffering due to ignorance which is a consequency of pathologic envirronment to lead astray off the lessons profil and which lead to personal destruction/entropy/sleep or 1D reset

Fire exists to burn, and it can only do that. Is fire burning through the forest a "bad student", because it's avoiding lessons on how to become water?

Interesting metaphore ;D
Is the "burning" here an analogy for the forces of entropy, which lead an ignorant to 1D because he don't look for knowledge (water) ?

 

[taratai]

Is the "burning" here an analogy for the forces of entropy, which lead an ignorant to 1D because he don't look for knowledge (water) ?

It was more about how two different things with different aims, goals and functions in nature shouldn't be measured from the perspective of the other, because they were never meant to function as the other.

Should anyone expect fire to become water, or water to become fire? I don't think so.
Then why should the same lessons apply to STS and STO? Why measure STS according to STO lessons? STS aren't "bad students" only because they refuse to be STO, neither they would become "bad students" if they changed to STO. In fact, i don't think such term as a "bad student" can be applied to anyone outside of a specific context and a certain aim that someone has (and which aim we don't know).

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= taratai]Why measure STS according to STO lessons?[/quote]

I think that's because all lessons point out to STO ultimately.


[quote author= taratai]In fact, i don't think such term as a "bad student" can be applied to anyone outside of a specific context and a certain aim that someone has (and which aim we don't know).[/quote]

It's true that we cannot see all lessons within, so who knows what their path of learning consists of. Maybe they have to experience certain things in order to learn. But Aim in general is never some personal/subjective/STS quest, it always ultimately intents to lead to objectivity/STO. No matter how small the lessons.

OSIT.

 

[onemen]

Is the "burning" here an analogy for the forces of entropy, which lead an ignorant to 1D because he don't look for knowledge (water) ?

It was more about how two different things with different aims, goals and functions in nature shouldn't be measured from the perspective of the other, because they were never meant to function as the other.

Sorry my bad, i had totally misunderstood your image, which was about a forest. It can't escape it because of his lower level of being and not necessarly because it's a bad student. I see your point. Thanks for the clarification.

Originally, I've read it as a man in the forest being burn because he had no knowledge of the world and of himself to master his little i's for example and escape himself out of the burning, figuratively speaking, coutering the burning by being himself a water.