Organic Portals: Human variation

[H-KQGE]

Yeah, it may be that many people who are not the hypothesized Organic Portals or psychopaths ("the failed OP's") or other pathological types, per se, could just be ponerized and brainwashed by the dominant post modern mantra "there's no such thing as objective truth". Probably many of those who came up with and spread that post modern mantra were a mix of OP's and pathological types, and those who have fallen under their sway and accept this notion function as the same.

Agreed, that is my take & what I constantly remind myself where psychopathology is concerned. The amount of people that follow this line of thought, that their view is "the one & only" & that their opinion is objectivity in itself, well is still astonishing quite frankly. Critical thinking is very elusive for a LOT of regular folks.

 

[marek760]

Rudolf Steiner expressed similar feelings about organic portals. His fundamental work, "The Philosophy of Freedom" dealing with this problem. Steiner said that as long as people obey the will to outside authorities, their own biological instincts, or animal parts themselves common with the rest of humanity, are not free beings. Freedom comes with a selection based on an intuitive understanding of what each option entails and what it means. This act of free will requires introspection and spiritual insight of action of true understanding. Steiner acknowledged that not everyone has this introspection sufficiently intelligent to make free choices :

"Faculty Meetings with Rudolf Steiner" 1919-1922, p. 649-650
The school doctor speaks about some medical cases.
Dr. Steiner:
That little girl L.K. in the first grade must have some-
thing really very wrong inside. There is not much we can do. Such
cases are increasing in which children are born with a human
form, but are not really human beings in relation to their highest
I; instead, they are filled with beings that do not belong to the
human class. Quite a number of people have been born since the
nineties without an I, that is, they are not reincarnated, but are
human forms filled with a sort of natural demon. There are quite
a large number of older people going around who are actually not
human beings, but are only natural; they are human beings only
in regard to their form. We cannot, however, create a school for
demons.
A teacher:
How is that possible?
Dr. Steiner:
Cosmic error is certainly not impossible. The relation-
ships of individuals coming into earthly existence have long been
determined. There are also generations in which individuals have
no desire to come into earthly existence and be connected with
physicality, or immediately leave at the very beginning. In such
cases, other beings that are not quite suited step in. This is some-
thing that is now quite common, that human beings go around
without an I; they are actually not human beings, but have only a
human form. They are beings like nature spirits, which we do not
recognize as such because they go around in a human form. They
are also quite different from human beings in regard to everything
spiritual. They can, for example, never remember such things as
sentences; they have a memory only for words, not for sentences.
The riddle of life is not so simple. When such a being dies, it
returns to nature from which it came. The corpse decays, but
there is no real dissolution of the etheric body, and the natural
being returns to nature.
It is also possible that something like an automaton could
occur. The entire human organism exists, and it might be possible
to automate the brain and develop a kind of pseudomorality.
I do not like to talk about such things since we have often been
attacked even without them. Imagine what people would say if
they heard that we say there are people who are not human
beings. Nevertheless, these are facts. Our culture would not be in
such a decline if people felt more strongly that a number of people
are going around who, because they are completely ruthless, have
become something that is not human, but instead are demons in
human form.
Nevertheless, we do not want to shout that to the world. Our
opposition is already large enough. Such things are really shocking
to people. I caused enough shock when I needed to say that a very
famous university professor, after a very short period between
death and rebirth, was reincarnated as a black scientist. We do not
want to shout such things out into the world.

 

[HiThere]

Thank you Marek760, that was interesting. I do not know much about Rudolf Steiners' work, but this seemed like a good fit to thoughts discussed on this forum, to my eyes.

 

[sigel_edwind]

Organic portals - do they really exist?

I've read The Wave up to the Chapter 29. Until that, everything was well correlated with my other knowledge and was logical and clear.

But in Chapter 29 I've found information about Organic Portals, and this disturbed me greatly.

This information is unbelievable, and it does not correlate with anything.

Since we are almost all are STS, such information is inducting paranoia and racist-like thoughts, and can be used by our vile ego-mind as a "proof" of own supremacy over disliked people, because mind would suppose "Oh i see! Those 'bad/stupid/crazy/psychopath people' are just unworthy organic portals!".

It would be much less painful if OP would be not labeled as 'soulless' but as 'low-level souls, just starting understanding what is to be a human'.
And psychopath are just sick people which have empathy organ reduced, due to certain evolution twist or some wicked DNA mutation. But they do have soul. Everyone do.

Soul undergo certain progression, raising from 1st density.
Say, when animal have developed a certain 'seed' of individuality, it's able to incarnate as human, with some restrictions.
When you inspect some people closely, they have a deep resemblance with certain animal character.

Also, could you imagine that people with which you live, which you love, are soulless robots? Of course such bio-robots *may* exist, but not 50%! I'd say they are would be a rare kind, and definitely not naturally produced.

Did anyone had similar thoughts?

 

[Gawan]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

If you haven't read it already there is a very good forum topic available, which may answer your questions:

Organic Portals: The Other Race

I've read The Wave up to the Chapter 29. Until that, everything was well correlated with my other knowledge and was logical and clear.

But in Chapter 29 I've found information about Organic Portals, and this disturbed me greatly.

This information is unbelievable, and it does not correlate with anything.

Since we are almost all are STS, such information is inducting paranoia and racist-like thoughts, and can be used by our vile ego-mind as a "proof" of own supremacy over disliked people, because mind would suppose "Oh i see! Those 'bad/stupid/crazy/psychopath people' are just unworthy organic portals!".

It would be much less painful if OP would be not labeled as 'soulless' but as 'low-level souls, just starting understanding what is to be a human'.
And psychopath are just sick people which have empathy organ reduced, due to certain evolution twist or some wicked DNA mutation. But they do have soul. Everyone do.

Soul undergo certain progression, raising from 1st density.
Say, when animal have developed a certain 'seed' of individuality, it's able to incarnate as human, with some restrictions.
When you inspect some people closely, they have a deep resemblance with certain animal character.

Also, could you imagine that people with which you live, which you love, are soulless robots? Of course such bio-robots *may* exist, but not 50%! I'd say they are would be a rare kind, and definitely not naturally produced.

Did anyone had similar thoughts?

I can understand you, that it is shocking to imagine that some people you love may have no soul. I think what is important to understand and to remember that it is a concept and we cannot proof if someone has a soul or not and the numbers may vary of course. You could also see it from the point, that all is lessons and some are at a stage where a soul needs to be developed first and the group soul that organic portals may have is a first step in this direction, which seems to me a fair lesson. Also there are other sources like Gurdjieff for example who said that one needs first to develop a soul through the work.

I think you should keep on reading the Wave and I also think that many other members struggled with this idea.

Beside and as already mentioned, it would be great if you could write an intro.

 

[Jacques]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

This information is unbelievable, and it does not correlate with anything.

Mouravieff wrote three books about Gnosis. And you can find a similar concept in these books.

Here's a link for the first one:

https://www.amazon.com/Gnosis-Exoteric-Cycle-Commentaries-Tradition/dp/1872292100/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494865923&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=mouriavieff

 

[T.C.]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

Did anyone had similar thoughts?

Yes, I think I went through just about every single thought you've written when I first read about organic portals.

The fact is, we shouldn't take anything as true; we definitely shouldn't believe anything just because one source or another tells us so.

And I think, in general, the organic portal question isn't really a massive issue. The information wasn't given in the spirit of, "Some people are souless and are therefore an inferior race to those who have soul potential." The information was given, as always, from a view of 'knowledge protects'. That we may find if we look at experiences we're having at the moment, or ones we've had in the past, that certain people can or might act as negative influences on us. Maybe when they turned up in our lives, we got off track with what we were doing up till then; maybe when we spent a lot of time with them, we started to not be able to think as efficiently; maybe they elicit certain responses from us that play on weaknesses we have that leave us spent or take up our time; etc. etc.

Maybe the whole organic portal issue was just to get us to think more carefully about the people we spend our time with? To make us more watchful and more critical of the influence different people have on us.

 

[Phill4]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

I think that it is the connotation that we are giving it, a dog is not less for being in 2D, the dog is simply in another level of experience and learning, Organic portals, are just people that have lives that correspond to their level of experience in 3D, or how difficult would be for someone who graduates from high school to start college the next day on 10th semester?

They are learning and growing at their own pace, but constitute a big chunk of humanity. I think that their experience as organic portals is to make the transition between 2D and 3D but also grow the potential for a soul and soul functions, doesn't mean they are not learning.

Thoughts of superiority are just that, thoughts that come from a person with tendency to feel superior, but it doesn't change the reality that there are different types of people and creatures on the planet which ranges with considerable difference.
Or that lessons are different for everyone. or that it is not a matter of superiority as much as level of awareness.

The problem may be in the way the term "souless" is used in casual conversation to describe a bad person or a person with no feelings, cold blooded, but that is incorrect, Organic portals have emotions and feelings and thoughts, and have and instinctive empathy for others even, caring etc. just not potential to host a soul

 

[Mikey]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

Since we are almost all are STS, such information is inducting paranoia and racist-like thoughts, and can be used by our vile ego-mind as a "proof" of own supremacy over disliked people, because mind would suppose "Oh i see! Those 'bad/stupid/crazy/psychopath people' are just unworthy organic portals!".

Our "vile ego-mind" will use anything it can get to "prove its own supremacy" (even the latest clothing fashion!). The concept of an OP is not really needed for that, and history is full of examples. It is much better to identify mentioned behaviours in ourselves, then work on ourselves to get rid of any such destructive tendencies.

OPs are not proven, there are hints in literature, there may be subtle hints about their existence based on an individual's own experience, but nobody should just believe it and play "Spot the OP!". It is up to everyone to take it as an interesting idea to work with, or leave it.

 

[Laura]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

As I've said elsewhere, the OP thing was pretty shocking to me even though I had been partly prepared for it by studying psychopathology and observing what I called "cardboard cutout people" for years. But I never thought it was something quite like that. But then, it began to make some sense. The problem is even more acute when one reads things like "The Myth of Sanity", "Strangers to Ourselves", "Thinking: Fast and Slow". Then, there is "People of the Lie" and "In Sheep's Clothing" and "Trapped in the Mirror". When you begin to add up all the findings of cognitive science, you begin to realize that human beings, as they are, in the natural state, are little more than animals with big brains. So the real wonder is that there MIGHT be anything more for some people. And there might not.

 

[Alada]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

Did anyone had similar thoughts?

Yes, I think I went through just about every single thought you've written when I first read about organic portals.

Same here, and some people have taken the theme, or Mouravieff's Adamic/pre-Adamic man idea and used it to label others. That is not the purpose of the information at all though, it seems more in line with the list of books that Laura mentioned, that its a way to better see and understand how things may work. To see things as they are, not as we may wish them to be, even if it's not 'nice'.

On the question of assumng oneself somehow better than others on the OP theme, Ark wrote something which helped with that thought along the lines of (paraphrasing here): I cannot know that I am not an OP for sure, but so what! If I am an OP, then I will be a good OP! And so what if I do not have a soul, maybe I can work to grow one! Maybe it takes many lifetimes, but I can begin the work now.

Does the notion of there being OPs mean that we cease to love others? That we stop treating others as we would wish to be treated ourelves? Those who think themselves the better of others ought to keep in mind: "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

As others have suggested, keep reading and allow some time to process the ideas, see what you think then. I remember the theme and problems of pyschopathy taking a long time to settle in me too. It seems to take a long time to buld up enough of a pattern in seeing the same themes reccuring over time out there in the world, for the reality of it to become more apparent and sink in, not just remian a theory in a book. So better to allow time for more processing and observations based on the new data I think.

 

[Esote]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

Disturbing but awaking topic !
May be the meaning of an entity having a soul could be seen as an incarnation with a creative consciousness : someone who is more or less on the path of knowing (s)he is creating its own reality and that Consciousness is One.
In this case it makes sense that around half of 3D STS humanity is not having such a soul.
Someone with this soul may loose it on the way, someone without may get it through its own efforts, I suppose.
And the soul gifted one must (it should be obvious OSIT) not feel superior but responsible, for its individual consciousness is interdependent with the collective consciousness together with the universal consciousness...
Does it make sense to you ?

 

[Laura]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

Disturbing but awaking topic !
May be the meaning of an entity having a soul could be seen as an incarnation with a creative consciousness : someone who is more or less on the path of knowing (s)he is creating its own reality and that Consciousness is One.
In this case it makes sense that around half of 3D STS humanity is not having such a soul.
Someone with this soul may loose it on the way, someone without may get it through its own efforts, I suppose.
And the soul gifted one must (it should be obvious OSIT) not feel superior but responsible, for its individual consciousness is interdependent with the collective consciousness together with the universal consciousness...
Does it make sense to you ?

That is certainly what some of the ancient systems suggested and what is suggested in Ilion's "Darkness Over Tibet". Ibn al-Arabi said it pretty clearly as well. Some are "on the way up" and some are "on the way down" so to say. Though that does not mean, as it was early interpreted, that humans reincarnate as animals, but rather something different.

This is actually sort of the "topic of topics", a great mystery, that many so-called seekers simply do not wish to deal with.

 

[Scottie]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

Yeah, I think there are also probably variations and details to consider.

A souled individual can "lose it" and become ponerized, go full Nazi, and commit unspeakable acts.

Someone else with no soul might be very good at being a "good robot", which might be how they grow a soul, so to speak.

A third person might be 50/50. I mean, who says it's OP or Not? In this case, the person would struggle just like everybody else, and they could also go either way: evil or good!

And then maybe there's 25% OP / 75% souled... And maybe it can even change over a person's lifetime.

So, I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as OP = broken, souled = human. A full OP could end up acting with more humanity than a souled person, no? We don't even have a strict definition of OP because it's basically theoretical at this point. I'll take a robo-human pretending to be good over a souled human slaughtering people any day.

In the end, we don't even really know what it means to "have a soul" or to "grow a soul", so it's all kind of theoretically interesting, but practically much more difficult to deal with effectively.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Organic portals - do they really exist?

It would be much less painful if OP would be not labeled as 'soulless' but as 'low-level souls, just starting understanding what is to be a human'.

The adjective "soul-less" is arbitrary really. What counts is the 'nameless' concept itself, but for practical reaons, one has to choose a name to communicate the concept. Would the adjective "low-level soul" have been used, I'm sure it would have created the same negative reactions in some people when they first encounter the concept.

The concept of robot-like people trying to learn to be more human has also been extensively expored in literature and movies, even though our current technological progress cannot yet produce such advanced artificial intelligence (AI). For one example, look at my avatar. The TV character Data, by all means, is a machine and can easily be considered soul-less. But that doesn't make him evil, negative, or even unlikeable. To the contrary, he is a very likeable and positive character, that's why I chose this avatar in the first place.

It all depends on the programming of a machine though. It will only do what it was designed to do. But because it's a machine, it will have trouble to go beyond its programming, and change autonomoulsy from within. It probably also will not change even in the face of great external 'shocks' which a real human can use as a fuel to self-change.

One of the latest portrayals of an android is Arthur, the perfect machine-bartender in the movie "Passengers". He is indistinguishable from a real human, but in the course of the movie one can see that he is lacking 'deeper thought' when confronted with conflicting information, thereby revealing his true nature, which is an unnerving experience for the human interacting with him. But he is extremely good as a bartender and anticipating his customer's needs. Here is an interesting interview with the actor who played Arthur, explaining his inspiration behind acting this role: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef5iVw2zil8

So in conclusion, there is really no reason to feel negatively about the general concept of OPs.