Paleo diet vs vegetarianism

[Laura M. C.]

I bet it did!

Vegetarians are often quite fascist!

Yup, I agree, totally!

 

[whitecoast]

mkrnhr, I agree with everything you say here:

If they ask you how do you maintain a good health, you answer that you eat meat and fat. If they ask you for information, you can give information. You give when you are asked, you don't play mind games to arrive to your aims, that are about somebody else's lifestyle and health.

But I don't understand where you're coming from with this:

That is still deciding for others, by the way of manipulation

I'm not suggesting you sugarcoat (lol) the fact that your paleolithic diet has made you healthy. Maybe a theoretical situation would clear up my confusion.

Let's say you have a wheat-eating vegetarian friend who is in relatively poor health, and you know for a fact that is (at least for now) unwilling to give up their sacred cow. If they asked you for advice on how to tackle their (let's say) weight issue, would one (A) bring up their sacred cow anyway, and in effect come across as paternalistic and unwilling to respect their choice, or would one (B) accept for now the fact that they wish to remain vegetarian, and give them information nutritional information on how to improve their health within that limitation, which they would actually be open to listening to? (B) is preferable and more externally considerate than (A); that's all my post was trying to convey.

Saying specific information about what makes us healthy isn't a "mindgame" simply because we're omitting certain facts (due to their being inapplicable to the limitations they impose on their diet). Even if you interpret "deception" in the absolute broadest of ways to include this, deception itself is not an unconditional vice, as not all deception is a violation of free will.

 

[mkrnhr]

Let's say you have a wheat-eating vegetarian friend who is in relatively poor health, and you know for a fact that is (at least for now) unwilling to give up their sacred cow. If they asked you for advice on how to tackle their (let's say) weight issue, would one (A) bring up their sacred cow anyway, and in effect come across as paternalistic and unwilling to respect their choice, or would one (B) accept for now the fact that they wish to remain vegetarian, and give them information nutritional information on how to improve their health within that limitation, which they would actually be open to listening to? (B) is preferable and more externally considerate than (A); that's all my post was trying to convey.

What about just telling the truth and let the person choose to quit her sacred cow or not. You may point to some truths to see if you pick some curiosity, but pushing something into someone is violating her freewill. You expose the possibilities, and you let the person choose. You do not restrict information in order to lead the person to a certain outcome you wish for her.

Saying specific information about what makes us healthy isn't a "mindgame" simply because we're omitting certain facts (due to their being inapplicable to the limitations they impose on their diet). Even if you interpret "deception" in the absolute broadest of ways to include this, deception itself is not an unconditional vice, as not all deception is a violation of free will.

Omitting certain facts in order to have an outcome we want, regardless of what the person would choose if she has all the information available, is manipulation. It's the way the PTB play with our reality: they reduce our choices by restricting information in a way we choose what they have chosen for us. You can give the information, and the person can make a choice according the her being and awareness.

The information you give will depend upon the received inquiries. It can be adaptive, certainly not pushy nor deceptive. It's the way that justifies the outcome, not the opposite.

 

[Samuel]

My wife is a vegan. I can't get her to budge one bit from this idiotic diet. She does eat fish, especially salmon, but will not touch any other meat, like bacon, chicken, turkey, beef or pork. :/ :(

Have you considered giving her Lierre Keith's The Vegetarian Myth? It's an excellent read from the perspective of deep ecology from a woman who was vegan for twenty years of her life. I like it because it pays the highest respects to the values that often motivate people to be vegetarian, so vegans reading it don't feel as if they are being attacked emotionally while she explains what is wrong with vegetarianism. Unless they are genuinely subjective in their value systems, in which case it'll take more than cholesterol and B-52 complex vitamins to fix

Yes, I've tried to get her to look at Vegetarian Myth, Primal Body, Primal Mind, Life Without Bread and Deep Nutrition, (all of which I have and read now and then) but she will have nothing to do with these books. I've also suggested posts on the Diet and Health forum. I have got her to stop eating soy, and recently she had stomach problems and discovered that she is severely intolerant to diary products, so she has eliminated all that garbage from her diet. Animal fat and meat is just an absolute no, no. I'll keep working on her, though in round about ways. We're both in our early, early 70's.

 

[skycsil]

The vegetarians I mentioned are actually very nice people, never seen them trying to force others into vegetarianism, and are very respectful of free will. I respect their decision as much as they respect mine of being a carnivore, but can't help to suffer in silence for their health (I bet they do the same for me).
It's like they're vegetarians "for the right reasons": they simply don't like meat.

 

[truth seeker]

Yes, I've tried to get her to look at Vegetarian Myth, Primal Body, Primal Mind, Life Without Bread and Deep Nutrition, (all of which I have and read now and then) but she will have nothing to do with these books. I've also suggested posts on the Diet and Health forum. I have got her to stop eating soy, and recently she had stomach problems and discovered that she is severely intolerant to diary products, so she has eliminated all that garbage from her diet. Animal fat and meat is just an absolute no, no. I'll keep working on her, though in round about ways. We're both in our early, early 70's.

Perhaps a good way to go about it would be to continue on the diet on your own? She may then see the benefits through your own efforts or not. If she's resistant to the books and posts, it doesn't seem as if she's ready yet. She may never be, but whatever decision she makes will have the most effect if she comes to it on her own. My thoughts.

 

[Gimpy]

Yup. It really is utterly amazing to witness it. It's like telling a fundie that Jesus is just a dead man on a stick... actually worse, I think.

Well, we can't expect them to eat meat when they have so many fruits and sacred cows... ;)

The few vegans in my old work place were appalled when going vegetarian put me in the hospital, and eventually wrecked my health bad enough I had to resign. All of them were young ladies who were shocked to hear later than I'm recovering slowly by eating mostly grass fed bacon and drinking the fat. Its as if just hearing that resets their brains?

Few people I see will accept its possible to lose weight and feel better eating this way...even when seeing proof!

 

[anart]

Few people I see will accept its possible to lose weight and feel better eating this way...even when seeing proof!

Yep - I've lost count of the number of people who have said to me, "wow, you look great, what are you doing?" - and I answer - and they say, "well, that can't be good!"

 

[mada85]

Few people I see will accept its possible to lose weight and feel better eating this way...even when seeing proof!

Yep - I've lost count of the number of people who have said to me, "wow, you look great, what are you doing?" - and I answer - and they say, "well, that can't be good!"

Yesterday I was telling a work colleague how I cleared up my post-viral fatigue with the low carb/high fat diet. This lady is quite overweight, but not obese.

'Oh, I couldn't do that,' she said. 'I'd turn into a balloon inside a week.'

'But eating the right kinds of fat doesn't make you fat,' I said. 'It's eating carbs that makes you fat.'

And that statement was deflected by this person into some comment on how many biscuits another colleague ate every day.

People have such closed minds, and don't even know it.

 

[Nienna]

Few people I see will accept its possible to lose weight and feel better eating this way...even when seeing proof!

Yep - I've lost count of the number of people who have said to me, "wow, you look great, what are you doing?" - and I answer - and they say, "well, that can't be good!"

Yesterday I was telling a work colleague how I cleared up my post-viral fatigue with the low carb/high fat diet. This lady is quite overweight, but not obese.

'Oh, I couldn't do that,' she said. 'I'd turn into a balloon inside a week.'

'But eating the right kinds of fat doesn't make you fat,' I said. 'It's eating carbs that makes you fat.'

And that statement was deflected by this person into some comment on how many biscuits another colleague ate every day.

People have such closed minds, and don't even know it.

Yes, addiction will do that (along with brainwashing that tells you it's okay to be addicted).

 

[mada85]

Thinking about vegetarians and psychopaths today, this possible connection occurred to me:

Psychopaths are always hungry. Their inner world is devoid of life and never satisfied – it is a permanently empty void – and they are always looking for something or someone to feed on to fill it. They are continually seeking new prey, so that when their latest energy 'rush' fades, they have a new source of food.

Vegetarians and vegans are always hungry. Their bodies are never satisfied, their brains can't work properly, and the physical emptiness always gnaws at them, destabilising their mood and their personality. Remember Gertrudes' example of the vegan at the office party who ate every sweet food in sight? The vegetarian is continually thinking about food, and when their latest energy 'rush' fades, they are compelled to seek their next glucose rush.

Is there a connection here? Is vegetarianism promoted by the psychopathic PTB because it is another way of trying to make normal humans like themselves – empty and always hungry?

 

[bngenoh]

Thinking about vegetarians and psychopaths today, this possible connection occurred to me:

Psychopaths are always hungry. Their inner world is devoid of life and never satisfied – it is a permanently empty void – and they are always looking for something or someone to feed on to fill it. They are continually seeking new prey, so that when their latest energy 'rush' fades, they have a new source of food.

Vegetarians and vegans are always hungry. Their bodies are never satisfied, their brains can't work properly, and the physical emptiness always gnaws at them, destabilising their mood and their personality. Remember Gertrudes' example of the vegan at the office party who ate every sweet food in sight? The vegetarian is continually thinking about food, and when their latest energy 'rush' fades, they are compelled to seek their next glucose rush.

Is there a connection here? Is vegetarianism promoted by the psychopathic PTB because it is another way of trying to make normal humans like themselves – empty and always hungry?

HOOOO, me thinks you are on to something there Endymion.

 

[Graalsword]

Thinking about vegetarians and psychopaths today, this possible connection occurred to me:

Psychopaths are always hungry. Their inner world is devoid of life and never satisfied – it is a permanently empty void – and they are always looking for something or someone to feed on to fill it. They are continually seeking new prey, so that when their latest energy 'rush' fades, they have a new source of food.

Vegetarians and vegans are always hungry. Their bodies are never satisfied, their brains can't work properly, and the physical emptiness always gnaws at them, destabilising their mood and their personality. Remember Gertrudes' example of the vegan at the office party who ate every sweet food in sight? The vegetarian is continually thinking about food, and when their latest energy 'rush' fades, they are compelled to seek their next glucose rush.

Is there a connection here? Is vegetarianism promoted by the psychopathic PTB because it is another way of trying to make normal humans like themselves – empty and always hungry?

That's what I was meaning in my last post! When I said: "The lack of proper fuel might be another reason (in the non-psychopathic ones) why many people accept what pathological types at the head of religions tell them to do and believe. Also I think of emotional manipulations, and narcissism, after all it is about feeding on others, when not having enough fuel of high quality, hunger of all kind arise, including emotional hunger." [ http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26568.msg319935.html#msg319935 ]

That could be a way to make people be hungry, not only physically but also psychically, thus absorbing them in the psychopathic feeding chain more strongly. In such a case, it might work differently for potentially souled ones and for OPs.

 

[Chu]

Is there a connection here? Is vegetarianism promoted by the psychopathic PTB because it is another way of trying to make normal humans like themselves – empty and always hungry?

I think it's got more to do with creating suffering, killing people slowly but surely, preventing them from thinking properly and having their emotions in check, and making a lot of profit by destroying the planet with agriculture (without never even being questioned about the rights and wrong of doing it!). And also, for people who would have the potential to see the pathological influence in the system, the PTB manage to convince them that, by having an "alternative"/different lifestyle, they are doing the right thing and fighting against the standard views. Little do they know that they are being manipulated even worse! It's like the "space-brothers" propaganda, in a sense.

And that's not even taking into account the possible hyperdimensional aspect, which the Cs hinted to.

As to the direct comparison you made, I'm not sure it stands, really. I think it would be more like that "hunger" (emotional and physical) in vegetarians is a byproduct of it all. And that what the psychos in power are really doing is exacerbating the weakness in Authoritarian followers, to have better sheeple, not to make them like them. That is, they make them so fanatical about the whole thing, that their minds become very closed to anything real. And therefore, the PTB have a whole new group that lives in an illusion and follows blindly even if under the illusion that they are doing something good for their health and for the planet. For the psychos it might just be another little experiment on humanity, which has unfortunately succeeded.

That's my take on it, FWIW.

 

[Chu]

That's what I was meaning in my last post! When I said: "The lack of proper fuel might be another reason (in the non-psychopathic ones) why many people accept what pathological types at the head of religions tell them to do and believe. Also I think of emotional manipulations, and narcissism, after all it is about feeding on others, when not having enough fuel of high quality, hunger of all kind arise, including emotional hunger." [ http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26568.msg319935.html#msg319935 ]

That could be a way to make people be hungry, not only physically but also psychically, thus absorbing them in the psychopathic feeding chain more strongly. In such a case, it might work differently for potentially souled ones and for OPs.

Yes, but I think that it can't be that simple. If physical hunger had such a strong effect, then why do so many people who starve to death for other reasons than being a vegetarian not become psychopathic? Millions and millions of people suffer every day from hunger, and a lot still try to help each other survive. Some of them have done really good things for the sake of humanity, even. Therefore, unless I'm missing something big, I think the hunger issue is really minor. It has more to do with what is inside each person, how easy they are to manipulate, and most of all, the fact that vegetarianism, like any of the main religions, is based on a big lie, principles, a twisted morality, and rules that make people cling to it and think they'll be saved and holy if they avoid animal products.

That's not to say that hunger can't create physical and emotional cravings, of course. It certainly does, and most of us here know it from having switched diets and knowing the huge difference it makes in our psyches and our health. But the issue goes deeper than that IMO.