Paleo-Restaurant

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Also, an assorted selection of organic tobacco products (Yuma, American Spirit...) on the counter would round up the Paleo-Restaurant and the Dot Connector :D

Sounds definitely like a good business plan to me

Has anybody ever checked into the legality of "smoking bars" - places just FOR smoking? Is such a thing possible, like a loophole in the many anti-smoking laws?

In Austria it's possible, as long as the space is smaller than 50m2, if memory serves. In case of a bigger place, it has to be split into a smoking and a non-smoking section, where the smoking section can't exceed more than 50% of the area. Most places I've been to lately have a smoking room, which I've observed usually filling up first. Only once it's full, people will start using the non-smoking room :)

In Serbia, its posible to have all smoking bar, no space dividing. But they pay higher taxes, and drink and food is more expensive in them (which I discover by chance, when was surprised how my bill is so high :) )

In my state the relevant Law says that "The consumption of cigarettes, cigars or other smoking products derived or not from tobacco, in premises designed for collective use, private or public, is prohibited in the territory of the State of São Paulo".

Such Law sets forth that premises of collective use are those "wholly or partially closed in any of its sides by walls, partitions, ceilings or roofs, even of transitory nature, in which persons may remain or circulate" and that, for the purposes of such Law, the term "premises designed for collective use" includes, among others, "working environment, places designed for cultural and religious practices, leisure, sport or entertainment, areas integrating condominiums, concert halls, theaters, cinemas, bars, restaurants, nightclubs, restaurants, food courts, hotels, inns, malls, banks and the like, supermarkets, butcher shops, bakeries, pharmacies and government agencies, health institutions, schools, museums, libraries, exhibition spaces, public or private vehicles designed for public transportation, official vehicles of any kind and taxis".

However, it makes the following exceptions:

"This law does not apply:
I – To religious worship places in which the use of smokable products is part of the ritual;
II – To health institutions in which patients are allowed to smoke by their physicians;
III – To public streets and open spaces;
IV – To residences;
V – To establishments specifically and exclusively designed to the consumption of cigarettes, cigars or any other smokable products smoke, derived or not from tobacco, providing this condition is clearly announced at the entrance of the premises".

So, because of item V above, we can and do have "smoke bars", although there are very few of them. Usually the people just walk outside the bar to smoke. In many places there is also a separated open space just for smokers, but these are the exception, not the rule.

 

[SolarMother]

I am getting visions of a FOTCM steak house chain with franchises all over the world...no chairs just low couches covered with fake bear skins :D :D

Hey! I'm in!
"Mammoth Tusk Steak House" franchises~ "Come On In and Chew the Fat!"
Menu includes plenty of fatty everything: steaks, other beef dishes, pork dishes, lotsa bacon--all cooked in iron skillets, slow cookers, pressure cookers, and ovens by FOTCM chefs.
Hookah smoking allowed and DOT Connectors in apres dinner (caveman decor) reading/smoking room.

 

[sludgeco]

Has anybody ever checked into the legality of "smoking bars" - places just FOR smoking? Is such a thing possible, like a loophole in the many anti-smoking laws?

Out here in Ohio.
There was a big to do about smoking in member only clubs. Most of these clubs offered free member ship of course.
I don't know what is in the "now", with me being out here in CornVille...

_http://www.no-smoke.org/goingsmokefree.php?id=158

EDITORIAL: Uphold smoking ban
Toledo (OH) Blade, 2011-04-10

Five years ago, Ohio voters overwhelmingly approved a state law that bans smoking in workplaces, including bars, restaurants, and clubs. Since then, Ohioans' support for, and compliance with, the law has continued to grow.

_http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=ohio+smoking+allowed+member+clubs&gbv=2&oq=ohio+smoking+allowed+member+clubs&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=145l17330l0l17589l33l31l0l23l23l0l945l2299l1.2.4.6-1l8l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=d99518ff27012caf&biw=1280&bih=860

Frequently Asked Questions
Ohio Indoor Smoking Ban (ORC 3794)

Q17. Is smoking allowed in private clubs?
A17: Smoking is permitted in private clubs as defined by Ohio Revised Code provided
ALL of the following conditions are met:
(1) the club has no employees; (2) the club is organized as a not for profit entity;
(3) only members of the club are present in the club’s building; (4) no persons
under the age of 18 are present in the club’s building; (5) the club is located in a
freestanding structure occupied solely by the club;(6) smoke from the club does
not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the
provisions of this chapter; and, (7) if the club serves alcohol, it holds a valid D4
liquor permit.

I feel you on this, I'm from cincinnati and Ohio went from a smoke friendly state to "you can't smoke indoors anywhere" almost overnight. If you walk across the river to kentucky though, you can smoke indoors in any restaurant where the owner allows it or I guess pays for it. Here in portland you cant even smoke within 10 feet of a food serving establishment.. weird laws..

 

[Laura]

In Austria it's possible, as long as the space is smaller than 50m2, if memory serves. In case of a bigger place, it has to be split into a smoking and a non-smoking section, where the smoking section can't exceed more than 50% of the area. Most places I've been to lately have a smoking room, which I've observed usually filling up first. Only once it's full, people will start using the non-smoking room :)

I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm not talking about a bar where people drink and can smoke, but a SMOKING BAR, a PLACE EXCLUSIVELY FOR SMOKING. Refreshments might be served, but the place would be for the specific purpose of people congregating to smoke.

 

[Laura]

So, it sounds to me like "smoking bars" could be created in places for the express purpose of smoking, refreshments served, owned and operated by FOTCM, people make donations to the church, the church provides all the food service stuff, and the only thing to be figured out would be how the cooks and servers could be compensated for their time... a sharp lawyer might be the one to sort that out.

 

[dant]

I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm not talking about a bar where people drink and can smoke, but a SMOKING BAR, a PLACE EXCLUSIVELY FOR SMOKING. Refreshments might be served, but the place would be for the specific purpose of people congregating to smoke.

So, it sounds to me like "smoking bars" could be created in places for the express purpose of smoking, refreshments served, owned and operated by FOTCM, people make donations to the church, the church provides all the food service stuff, and the only thing to be figured out would be how the cooks and servers could be compensated for their time... a sharp lawyer might be the one to sort that out.

Assuming that the establishment itself could be allowed for
smoking but how would that prevent anyone of authorized
age to walk into the establishment, ignoring postings and
warnings before entering, and then turn around and sue for
smoke related health damages? Perhaps this requires FOTCM
memberships of which signatories would indemnify FOTCM from
any damages? Yes, a smart lawyer would be needed and internationally
experienced?

 

[pete02]

Fwiw I know right up the block from my job (in NYC) there is an exclusive club for the 'upper class' in the area and they gather to drink, smoke and dine there. I also believe they have rooms for those who choose to spend a night or two. So I'm sure its possible that there is some loop hole in the law that would allow this. Probably a members only type thing.

Assuming that the establishment itself could be allowed for
smoking but how would that prevent anyone of authorized
age to walk into the establishment, ignoring postings and
warnings before entering, and then turn around and sue for
smoke related health damages? Perhaps this requires FOTCM
memberships of which signatories would indemnify FOTCM from
any damages? Yes, a smart lawyer would be needed and internationally
experienced?

If someone were to be right at the door to greet people with signs posted I can see no danger of a lawsuit for something thats just common belief let alone practically unprovable. The minimum exposure to someone from just entering the place could be further reduced anyway by having just a designated smoking room enclosed with an additional set of doors. So basically a foyer or hallway to enter before your actually in the smoking area.

 

[3DStudent]

The idea of actually having a restaurant where people could eat and smoke and run by FOTCM got me a little emotional. That would be just awesome! Just think how every place nowadays has a "No Smoking" sign. You would need a catchy sign that promotes it instead.

 

[Al Today]

Boy-o-boy. I wonder what kind of excited hub-bub would be generated over a new business establishment with a "Smokers Welcome" or "Smoking Encouraged" sign.

Smokers-R-Us

 

[SolarMother]

The idea of actually having a restaurant where people could eat and smoke and run by FOTCM got me a little emotional. That would be just awesome! Just think how every place nowadays has a "No Smoking" sign. You would need a catchy sign that promotes it instead.

Me too, 3D.
Mr.A and I were thinking the only way to do this in our city, is to have Paleo lunches or dinners in our home--our home becoming a Paleo Cafe (by word of mouth only)--followed (or preceded) by smoking.

To have it be a realitly that an actual 'smoking bar' establishment, run by FOTCM members, would be a dream come true! ;D

Laura

So, it sounds to me like "smoking bars" could be created in places for the express purpose of smoking, refreshments served, owned and operated by FOTCM, people make donations to the church, the church provides all the food service stuff, and the only thing to be figured out would be how the cooks and servers could be compensated for their time... a sharp lawyer might be the one to sort that out.

 

[Nienna]

Boy-o-boy. I wonder what kind of excited hub-bub would be generated over a new business establishment with a "Smokers Welcome" or "Smoking Encouraged" sign.

Smokers-R-Us

It would really get to them if it was a "Smokers Only" restaurant.

 

[Kaigen]

Boy-o-boy. I wonder what kind of excited hub-bub would be generated over a new business establishment with a "Smokers Welcome" or "Smoking Encouraged" sign.

Smokers-R-Us

:D :D :D

 

[SolarMother]

Boy-o-boy. I wonder what kind of excited hub-bub would be generated over a new business establishment with a "Smokers Welcome" or "Smoking Encouraged" sign.

Smokers-R-Us

:D :D :D

Yes! :D

How 'bout adding "Club" instead of Bar?
Smokers-R-Us Club

or...Establishment?

 

[Muxel]

I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm not talking about a bar where people drink and can smoke, but a SMOKING BAR, a PLACE EXCLUSIVELY FOR SMOKING.

Reminds me of the Victorian-era opium dens that Sherlock frequented in the Conan Doyle stories. It's been done before, so no harm doing it again. The way tobacco has been demonized/illegalized, you'd need clandestine "tobacco dens".

"Mammoth Tusk Steak House" franchises~ "Come On In and Chew the Fat!"
Menu includes plenty of fatty everything: steaks, other beef dishes, pork dishes, lotsa bacon--all cooked in iron skillets, slow cookers, pressure cookers, and ovens by FOTCM chefs.

But... what about mutton? :D I demand for there to be mutton – or else!!!

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

One thing to think about is whether the smoke bar will be for FOTCM members only. If so, maybe it could be developed to be an integral part of the FOTCM and thus could have the usual tax benefits of a church. I suppose the smoking would have to be construed as part of the FOTCM "ritual" (I could not think of a better word).