Benjamin
The Living Force
With all the talk of the Phrygian cap recently in the Julius Caesar and Mithraism thread, it was released that the mascots for the Paris 2024 Olympic Games are two Phrygian caps. I just thought the timing of this was weird.
Paris Olympic Mascots are Phrygian Caps
- Thread starter Benjamin
- Start date
Weird indeed! Red caps are symbolic all over the world these days. IMO, MAGA is about way more than America. What will they do if everyone of a certain mind starts wearing a red cap? I'm wondering who was the decision maker, ha ha.
Benjamin
The Living Force
I'm just familiarizing myself with the French Revolution since the article clearly mentions the 'celebration of the French revolution's spirit' as being the motivation behind the creation of the mascot. I think they are trying to invoke the idea of 'freedom from tyranny' but with that came the guillotine. Why didn't they make that the mascot? They could have named it 'Gilly'.
In thinking about the run-up to the actual revolution- the heavy taxes on the poor, food shortages, the partying upper classes and hoarding food, disastrous weather destroying crops- and then thinking about the global situation now and the 'great reset', this Phrygian cap mascot for 2024 starts to take on a bad taste.
It's like a history repeating itself only this time it feels 'forced'. Idk, this got really weird all of a sudden.
From the Bernard-René Jordan de Launay (French governor of the Bastille) wiki (which made me think of the Phrygian cap on a pole):
"1789 engraving of the beheaded Mayor of Paris Flesselles and de Launay. The caption reads "This is how we get revenge on traitors"."
In thinking about the run-up to the actual revolution- the heavy taxes on the poor, food shortages, the partying upper classes and hoarding food, disastrous weather destroying crops- and then thinking about the global situation now and the 'great reset', this Phrygian cap mascot for 2024 starts to take on a bad taste.
It's like a history repeating itself only this time it feels 'forced'. Idk, this got really weird all of a sudden.
From the Bernard-René Jordan de Launay (French governor of the Bastille) wiki (which made me think of the Phrygian cap on a pole):
"1789 engraving of the beheaded Mayor of Paris Flesselles and de Launay. The caption reads "This is how we get revenge on traitors"."
Olivierlejardinier
Jedi Council Member
On this subject, one must understand how deep is the programming related to "The french revolution" into french people's minds.
As an example, just search videos on the 1989 bicentenary (YT has some).
I' ve just took a look at the two co-presidents of the "Paris 2024" comitee bio , they're both born in the Pyrénées and are high rank in french sport institutions since many years...
Benjamin
The Living Force
Julie Matikhine is the chief brand director for Paris 2024 committee.
What puzzles me is a lot of the previous mascots (and mascots in general) were/are animals. Animals are safe choices for mascots, generally portrayed as fun and inviting which is what a country would want at an international event. When it comes to France, the obvious choice would be a rooster, its unofficial emblem. But:
Dump the entire mascot if you can't convey the right message? Seems drastic. What's wrong with the rooster? On the website, 'freedom' is the message attached to the cap, even though they say the French National Archives show records of these caps being worn during the construction of the cathedral of Notre-Dame in 1163. Were they free then? Idk. I guess what I'm saying is I'm getting mixed messages from this choice.
Interesting to note about the 'Phryges' (fridgees? free-gees?) is that they are both female. They say so. So, right there, as a choice, the rooster is out.
Paris 2024 - The Mascots
Discover the Phryges, the Paris 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games official mascots!
www.paris2024.org
The etymology of 'mascot'.
A mascot sounds like a form of apotropaic magic.
From the mascot wiki:
I kinda get the impression that mascots of today is like 'familiars' (ie: the black cat) which were believed to be "supernatural entities that would assist witches and cunning folk in their practice of magic."
Benjamin
The Living Force
Well, first, there is no magic here. I just thought the etymology was interesting and then my imagination started running around.
Second, the idea of the 'Phryges' being female is linked to the 1830 painting Liberty Leads the People by Eugène Delacroix showing Liberty wearing a red (-ish brown?) Phrygian cap:
Third, the 'revolution' side is being presented as 'revolution through sport' and how sport can change everything, seemingly for the better, although we've seen how Russia and Belarus have been treated in the sports world for years now, including at the Olympics. In regards to the chief brand director of these games, Julie Matikhine is a supporter of Ukraine (FB) but that doesn't mean much specifically. Still, Russia and I'm sure Belarus are planning on attending but a lot could happen in two years.
olympics.nbcsports.com
Second, the idea of the 'Phryges' being female is linked to the 1830 painting Liberty Leads the People by Eugène Delacroix showing Liberty wearing a red (-ish brown?) Phrygian cap:
Third, the 'revolution' side is being presented as 'revolution through sport' and how sport can change everything, seemingly for the better, although we've seen how Russia and Belarus have been treated in the sports world for years now, including at the Olympics. In regards to the chief brand director of these games, Julie Matikhine is a supporter of Ukraine (FB) but that doesn't mean much specifically. Still, Russia and I'm sure Belarus are planning on attending but a lot could happen in two years.
Russia eyes 2024 Paris Olympics despite sports bans
With two years until the Paris Olympics open, Russia is making plans for its athletes to live and compete in the French capital even though many are barred.
olympics.nbcsports.com
Benjamin
The Living Force
I’ve been trying to find out more about the Phrygian cap and instead of continuing in the Mithraism thread, I moved here. I find it strange that a 2000+ year old cap that featured prominently on the head of Mithras would seemingly go dormant, make a resurgence in the 11/12 centuries apparently being worn by European commoners, and then pop up in the American and French Revolutions as the Liberty cap. Why? Where did it get its association with liberty?
The Phrygian cap wiki says:
The murder of Caesar brought chaos. Wouldn’t the pileus then be the ‘cap of chaos’? So, did the Phrygian cap have a meaning before it became ‘confused’?
The Phrygian cap has a pretty specific shape. The forward-projecting ‘point’ is of a medium-ish length and does not stand vertical nor rest on the top-front of the head which leads me to assume that it is made out of a material that is structurally strong enough (like felt) to hold its shape- lighter fabric would ‘flop’- or there is a structure under the fabric. So I started out by trying to separate what was and what was not a Phrygian cap. Limiting my search to coins, I found a huge array of headwear. For instance:
This type of headwear is generally referred to as a ‘satrapal headdress’. I’m drawing a hard line by saying none of these are related to the Phrygian cap, but that doesn’t mean there couldn’t be a general influence.
As a note, I ran into some caps misslabled as Kyrbasia or Bashlyk, when these two styles are quite distinctive from the ones pictured above and also seem to be worn mostly by kings.
The problem with these depictions is that they all look ‘solid’. There is no colour and I sometimes can’t tell if it’s a hard or soft material. But I read something that helped add possible clarity.
The turban is one piece of cloth that’s wrapped around the head. Some of the satrapal headdresses look like they might be wrapped. As well, this 8th century Tang dynasty clay figurine at the Museum of Oriental Art in Turin is of a probable Zoroastrian priest from the Sogdian people. He is also shown wearing a veil- that appears to cover his head as well with two pieces of fabric(?) resting on his forehead- apparently to prevent breath and saliva from contaminating the holy fire.
IMO, this headpiece looks like it’s wrapped and could be closer in style to the turban. If this is the case, could the knob be hair wrapped in cloth like the turban?
As a sidenote, in 1675, French revolutionaries wore a cap known as the bonnets rouges. While it did not look like the later Phrygian cap version, a knot of ribbons formed in the shape of a circle (looking like a flower or radiating star), known as a cockade, was pinned or sewn to the side of the cap. This feels very similar to the Suebian knot. To distinguish Germanic Suebi freemen from slaves, the freemen would tie their hair in an elaborate knot at the side of their head above the temple as evidenced from the Osterby Head bog body. The idea of a ‘knot of hair’ makes me think of the hair ‘bun’ and turban.
So, on coins, if the ‘satraple headdress’ was being worn by political type people, who was wearing the Phrygian cap?
My tally for the Phrygian Cap on coins. The numbers before the names are from CoinArchives. The numbers in brackets after the name are from RPC.
1- The Adoration of the Magi (0)
1- Aeneas (0)
0- Ascanius (1)
3- Athena (6) (Athena isn’t depicted wearing the cap)
4- Attis (0)
1- Artemis/Bendis (8)
3- Dido or Tanit (0)
0- Ganymede (14)
27- Mên (195)
5- Midas (6)
7- Misc. (?)
4- Mithras (16)
1- Paris (2)
11- Perseus (2)
The list is of all gods (minus the Adoration of the Magi). I could not find a single human being wearing this cap, so labeled. There are a few exceptions, but mostly they’re in a generalized way with the ‘captive’ representing a people or a country. I started to think that, maybe, who wears what headdress might be a way of distinguishing what is and is not a Phrygian cap: humans wear ‘satrapal headdresses’, gods wear Phrygian caps.
But in the list there is one deity that really stands out. Who the heck is Mên?
Mên is an Anatolian lunar god that has ties to the Zoroastrian god Mah/Mao, Sin, and Selene/Mene, who his counterpart and from whom his name is derived. He is easily recognized by the crescent moon at his back with the two tips rising like horns from behind his shoulders. He also appears to wear the Phrygian cap exclusively. The Lydian version of him was known as Meis. He was not a Roman god, the pine tree was sacred to him (usually shown holding a pinecone/egg) , and was very closely associated with Cybele, although Mên does not appear to be from Phrygia. It looks as if the original cult, whatever it was, was hellenised first then Romanised, then destroyed.
The dating of the ‘cult of Mên’ flourished between 2nd c. BC- 2nd c. AD though it is suggested that it may have started as early as the 4th c. BC (in Lydia?) and continued, generally, until 4th-5th c. AD. From the considerable and mounting number of inscriptions found from the handful of sites uncovered, he’s just a god that people would address their day-to-day human problems to though there appears to be evidence of animal sacrifice.
Now, a really nice feature from RPC is that they map the coins that are found. I decided to see what the dispersion was for Attis, Mithras and Mên, with Cybele for comparison. I found the results a bit surprising expecting more for Attis and Mithras.
It might be a bit hard to read so the number of cities where coins were found featuring Attis only number 2, Mithras- 5, Mên- 76, Cybele- 115. The vast majority of the Mên coins date from the 1st- 4th century. It was a pretty serious cult in its time.
The cult was brought to an area by individual people. The name of the founder of each individual sanctuary is added behind the name Mên. This tells you who founded it and where it’s located. Only a few are known currently.
Meis/Mên Tiamou- founded by (the Persian?) Tiamou near Maionia in Lydia (possibly c. mid-4th century BCE, which could make this the earliest attestation in Anatolia)
Meis/Mên Artemidorou Axiottenos- founded by Artemidorou (?) at Axiottenos (Axiotta), near Kollyda (Gölde), Lydia (to be specific, it’s at Mağazadamları, ~5km NW of Hamidiye just south of the Hermos river, Lydia) (c. 2nd century BCE) A total of 74 inscriptions have been found in the surrounding area.
Mên Pharnakou- founded by Pharnakes I at Ameria near Cabria, Pontus (c. 2nd century BCE).
Strabo 12.3.31: (A different translation found here.)
Strabo was born in Amaseia in Pontus around 64 BCE which is not very far to the northwest of Ameria. He would have lived during the existence of Mên Pharnakou.
Mên Askaenos- located near Antioch of Pisidia (c. 2nd century BCE). The sanctuary of Mên Askaenos, on a hill known as Kara Kuyu (Black Well), ~3.5 km SE of Antioch of Pisidia, is the most well documented to date. See this excellent site for photos, survey plans and reconstructions of both Antioch and Kara Kuyu from the Kelsey expadition.
Apple map showing the locations of Antioch of Pisidia and the site of Mên Askaenos.
Strabo 12.8.14:
From pp.6-8 of the book Pisidian Antioch, The Site and its Monuments, by Stephen Mitchell and Marc Waelkens (1998):
I’ve kept a little extra in that passage but the main point I’m focusing on here is about the sacred slaves. It’s just an idea, but I wondered if the Phrygian cap might have been worn by the priests or the 100’s/1000’s(?) of slaves and/or followers of Mên? I have no evidence for this though.
What was the fate of the Mên Askaenos sanctuary at Kara Kuyu, Antioch? While one gets the impression that Mitchell didn’t really think all that highly of Ramsay, on p.85 he writes:
Mên Kamareites- Nysa on the Maeander in Lydia.
Mên Karou- (‘the Caria Mên’) ~13 miles west of Laodicea on the Lycus, Caria. Known for its apparently renowned medical school. (2nd c. BCE (or earlier?))
Strabo 12.8.20:
This medical school at Mên Karou brought up an article which mentioned a ‘Phrygian stone’.
Here is Rev. 3:14-18 for comparison:
After looking around, this stone is apparently pumice that when ground up into a powder has an astringent quality. However, and I might be completely off here, when I read about the Phrygian stone, ‘gold refined in the fire’, ‘ointment for the eyes’, ‘strengthening the ears’ (made me think of Proverbs 20:12)… it started to sound like a ‘Philosophers’ Stone’ thing. I think I also remember reading that the Rev. passage was about choosing one’s alignment and being the best at that alignment instead of being 'lukewarm'. I'm not suggesting that this was being taught at the temples of Mên.
There is also the other ‘Phrygian stone’ that was a meteorite located at the Temple of Cybele in Pessinus, Phrygia before it was taken to Rome in 203 BCE.
One of the oldest coins depicting Mên is a c. 25-50 BCE semi-autonomous coin from Antioch, Pisidia. On the reverse side is a humped bull. The next oldest is a c. 69-79 AD semi-autonomous coin from Nysa, Lydia.
The bull is interesting because in my coin searches, I was running into the bucranium in association with Mên. So I had another look (first number WildWinds, number in brackets RPC):
28- Antioch, Pisidia (115)
1- Esbus, Arabia (22)
1- Julia/Iulia, Phrygia (3)
5- Nysa, Lydia (9)
0- Sillyum, Pamphylia (7)
There were other cities that had this combination but I didn't bother listing them since nothing compared to Antioch. When I did a search for ’Phrygian cap’ + ‘bucranium’, I could not find a single coin without Mên.
Here is the reverse side of a coin from 238-244 AD, Antioch, Pisidia.
There is an older coin dated 193-211 AD from Antioch where the reverse side depicts the same image only the ‘cippus’ (column, Kore?) has a snake wrapped around it.
On the ForumAncientCoins, a writeup of Mên on coins was made.
When it comes to ‘TYRANNOC, the god of slaves’, I have no idea where this is coming from. I can’t find any god specifically for slaves let alone a god named Tyrranoc οr Τυρρανοψ, although I’ve run into this name sporadically without any further clarification. Many, if not all, sanctuaries and temples had many slaves, servants, etc, so that might be what this is being referred to (even though I don’t know how the term ‘slave’ is being used. Could it be even more encompassing like, perhaps, everyone being ‘bound to earthly existence’?). Otherwise, the only info I have been able to find is a definition from Wiktionary:
If ‘TYRANNOC’ is being used as a name, rather than a description or title, than the only deity that I can find that might be related is Taranis, a Celtic thunder god. But I’m not sure about this.
I didn’t want to turn this into a ‘Mên’ post, so lastly, here are the oldest coins showing the Phrygian Cap:
Corinthia, Corinth- c. 375-400 BCE; Pegasos flying left on front. On reverse, Athena wearing Corinthian helmet looking left with Phrygian cap behind. (Link)
Kingdom of Macedon- c. 301-310 BCE; On front, head of Herakles wearing lion-skin headdress. On reverse, Zeus Aëtophoros seated to left, holding eagle, sceptre; AΛEΞANΔPOY to right, monogram in left field, male head facing left, wearing Phrygian cap, below throne. (Link)
Phaloria, Thessaly- c. 225-275 BCE; Apollo facing right on front. Bendis on reverse wearing short chiton, hunting boots and Phrygian cap, seated left on a rock, holding arrow in her right hand, spear in her left, and with bow and quiver over her shoulder. (Link)
Astypalaia, an Island off Caria- c. 1st-2nd centuries BCE; Perseus wearing a Phrygian cap. (Link)
Eumenia, Phrygia- c. 1-133 BCE; On the front is the bust of Mên looking right. On the reverse is an eight-pointed star with the letters ‘E-Y-M-E-N-E-Ω-N’ between the rays. (Denizli Museum 8863) The cap looks like it has bumps, almost like scales, all over it. This could be the earliest depiction of Mên on a coin. Another copy of this coin carries the same wide date of c. 1st-2nd centuries BCE. (Link)
When trying to find where Eumenia was, I ran into this curious bit of info.
Corinth was completely destroyed in 146 BCE by the Romans. ”When he entered the city, Lucius Mummius killed all the men and sold the women and children into slavery before burning the city, for which he was given the cognomen Achaicus as the conqueror of the Achaean League.” I found an example of the coin dated c. 244-249 AD dipicting Apollo-Mên riding a horse carrying a double-axe. I find it odd that this suggested connection between Eumenia and Corinth would be on a coin ~390 years after the event. A current town named Isikli appears to be where Eumeneia was.
Just my thoughts of what else the Phrygian cap looks like:
-a mushroom (eg: the psychoactive Liberty Cap)
-a bell
The Phrygian cap wiki says:
The murder of Caesar brought chaos. Wouldn’t the pileus then be the ‘cap of chaos’? So, did the Phrygian cap have a meaning before it became ‘confused’?
The Phrygian cap has a pretty specific shape. The forward-projecting ‘point’ is of a medium-ish length and does not stand vertical nor rest on the top-front of the head which leads me to assume that it is made out of a material that is structurally strong enough (like felt) to hold its shape- lighter fabric would ‘flop’- or there is a structure under the fabric. So I started out by trying to separate what was and what was not a Phrygian cap. Limiting my search to coins, I found a huge array of headwear. For instance:
This type of headwear is generally referred to as a ‘satrapal headdress’. I’m drawing a hard line by saying none of these are related to the Phrygian cap, but that doesn’t mean there couldn’t be a general influence.
As a note, I ran into some caps misslabled as Kyrbasia or Bashlyk, when these two styles are quite distinctive from the ones pictured above and also seem to be worn mostly by kings.
The problem with these depictions is that they all look ‘solid’. There is no colour and I sometimes can’t tell if it’s a hard or soft material. But I read something that helped add possible clarity.
The turban is one piece of cloth that’s wrapped around the head. Some of the satrapal headdresses look like they might be wrapped. As well, this 8th century Tang dynasty clay figurine at the Museum of Oriental Art in Turin is of a probable Zoroastrian priest from the Sogdian people. He is also shown wearing a veil- that appears to cover his head as well with two pieces of fabric(?) resting on his forehead- apparently to prevent breath and saliva from contaminating the holy fire.
IMO, this headpiece looks like it’s wrapped and could be closer in style to the turban. If this is the case, could the knob be hair wrapped in cloth like the turban?
As a sidenote, in 1675, French revolutionaries wore a cap known as the bonnets rouges. While it did not look like the later Phrygian cap version, a knot of ribbons formed in the shape of a circle (looking like a flower or radiating star), known as a cockade, was pinned or sewn to the side of the cap. This feels very similar to the Suebian knot. To distinguish Germanic Suebi freemen from slaves, the freemen would tie their hair in an elaborate knot at the side of their head above the temple as evidenced from the Osterby Head bog body. The idea of a ‘knot of hair’ makes me think of the hair ‘bun’ and turban.
So, on coins, if the ‘satraple headdress’ was being worn by political type people, who was wearing the Phrygian cap?
My tally for the Phrygian Cap on coins. The numbers before the names are from CoinArchives. The numbers in brackets after the name are from RPC.
1- The Adoration of the Magi (0)
1- Aeneas (0)
0- Ascanius (1)
3- Athena (6) (Athena isn’t depicted wearing the cap)
4- Attis (0)
1- Artemis/Bendis (8)
3- Dido or Tanit (0)
0- Ganymede (14)
27- Mên (195)
5- Midas (6)
7- Misc. (?)
4- Mithras (16)
1- Paris (2)
11- Perseus (2)
The list is of all gods (minus the Adoration of the Magi). I could not find a single human being wearing this cap, so labeled. There are a few exceptions, but mostly they’re in a generalized way with the ‘captive’ representing a people or a country. I started to think that, maybe, who wears what headdress might be a way of distinguishing what is and is not a Phrygian cap: humans wear ‘satrapal headdresses’, gods wear Phrygian caps.
But in the list there is one deity that really stands out. Who the heck is Mên?
Mên is an Anatolian lunar god that has ties to the Zoroastrian god Mah/Mao, Sin, and Selene/Mene, who his counterpart and from whom his name is derived. He is easily recognized by the crescent moon at his back with the two tips rising like horns from behind his shoulders. He also appears to wear the Phrygian cap exclusively. The Lydian version of him was known as Meis. He was not a Roman god, the pine tree was sacred to him (usually shown holding a pinecone/egg) , and was very closely associated with Cybele, although Mên does not appear to be from Phrygia. It looks as if the original cult, whatever it was, was hellenised first then Romanised, then destroyed.
The dating of the ‘cult of Mên’ flourished between 2nd c. BC- 2nd c. AD though it is suggested that it may have started as early as the 4th c. BC (in Lydia?) and continued, generally, until 4th-5th c. AD. From the considerable and mounting number of inscriptions found from the handful of sites uncovered, he’s just a god that people would address their day-to-day human problems to though there appears to be evidence of animal sacrifice.
Now, a really nice feature from RPC is that they map the coins that are found. I decided to see what the dispersion was for Attis, Mithras and Mên, with Cybele for comparison. I found the results a bit surprising expecting more for Attis and Mithras.
It might be a bit hard to read so the number of cities where coins were found featuring Attis only number 2, Mithras- 5, Mên- 76, Cybele- 115. The vast majority of the Mên coins date from the 1st- 4th century. It was a pretty serious cult in its time.
The cult was brought to an area by individual people. The name of the founder of each individual sanctuary is added behind the name Mên. This tells you who founded it and where it’s located. Only a few are known currently.
Meis/Mên Tiamou- founded by (the Persian?) Tiamou near Maionia in Lydia (possibly c. mid-4th century BCE, which could make this the earliest attestation in Anatolia)
Meis/Mên Artemidorou Axiottenos- founded by Artemidorou (?) at Axiottenos (Axiotta), near Kollyda (Gölde), Lydia (to be specific, it’s at Mağazadamları, ~5km NW of Hamidiye just south of the Hermos river, Lydia) (c. 2nd century BCE) A total of 74 inscriptions have been found in the surrounding area.
Mên Pharnakou- founded by Pharnakes I at Ameria near Cabria, Pontus (c. 2nd century BCE).
Strabo 12.3.31: (A different translation found here.)
Strabo was born in Amaseia in Pontus around 64 BCE which is not very far to the northwest of Ameria. He would have lived during the existence of Mên Pharnakou.
Mên Askaenos- located near Antioch of Pisidia (c. 2nd century BCE). The sanctuary of Mên Askaenos, on a hill known as Kara Kuyu (Black Well), ~3.5 km SE of Antioch of Pisidia, is the most well documented to date. See this excellent site for photos, survey plans and reconstructions of both Antioch and Kara Kuyu from the Kelsey expadition.
Apple map showing the locations of Antioch of Pisidia and the site of Mên Askaenos.
Strabo 12.8.14:
From pp.6-8 of the book Pisidian Antioch, The Site and its Monuments, by Stephen Mitchell and Marc Waelkens (1998):
I’ve kept a little extra in that passage but the main point I’m focusing on here is about the sacred slaves. It’s just an idea, but I wondered if the Phrygian cap might have been worn by the priests or the 100’s/1000’s(?) of slaves and/or followers of Mên? I have no evidence for this though.
What was the fate of the Mên Askaenos sanctuary at Kara Kuyu, Antioch? While one gets the impression that Mitchell didn’t really think all that highly of Ramsay, on p.85 he writes:
Mên Kamareites- Nysa on the Maeander in Lydia.
Mên Karou- (‘the Caria Mên’) ~13 miles west of Laodicea on the Lycus, Caria. Known for its apparently renowned medical school. (2nd c. BCE (or earlier?))
Strabo 12.8.20:
This medical school at Mên Karou brought up an article which mentioned a ‘Phrygian stone’.
Here is Rev. 3:14-18 for comparison:
After looking around, this stone is apparently pumice that when ground up into a powder has an astringent quality. However, and I might be completely off here, when I read about the Phrygian stone, ‘gold refined in the fire’, ‘ointment for the eyes’, ‘strengthening the ears’ (made me think of Proverbs 20:12)… it started to sound like a ‘Philosophers’ Stone’ thing. I think I also remember reading that the Rev. passage was about choosing one’s alignment and being the best at that alignment instead of being 'lukewarm'. I'm not suggesting that this was being taught at the temples of Mên.
There is also the other ‘Phrygian stone’ that was a meteorite located at the Temple of Cybele in Pessinus, Phrygia before it was taken to Rome in 203 BCE.
One of the oldest coins depicting Mên is a c. 25-50 BCE semi-autonomous coin from Antioch, Pisidia. On the reverse side is a humped bull. The next oldest is a c. 69-79 AD semi-autonomous coin from Nysa, Lydia.
The bull is interesting because in my coin searches, I was running into the bucranium in association with Mên. So I had another look (first number WildWinds, number in brackets RPC):
28- Antioch, Pisidia (115)
1- Esbus, Arabia (22)
1- Julia/Iulia, Phrygia (3)
5- Nysa, Lydia (9)
0- Sillyum, Pamphylia (7)
There were other cities that had this combination but I didn't bother listing them since nothing compared to Antioch. When I did a search for ’Phrygian cap’ + ‘bucranium’, I could not find a single coin without Mên.
Here is the reverse side of a coin from 238-244 AD, Antioch, Pisidia.
There is an older coin dated 193-211 AD from Antioch where the reverse side depicts the same image only the ‘cippus’ (column, Kore?) has a snake wrapped around it.
On the ForumAncientCoins, a writeup of Mên on coins was made.
When it comes to ‘TYRANNOC, the god of slaves’, I have no idea where this is coming from. I can’t find any god specifically for slaves let alone a god named Tyrranoc οr Τυρρανοψ, although I’ve run into this name sporadically without any further clarification. Many, if not all, sanctuaries and temples had many slaves, servants, etc, so that might be what this is being referred to (even though I don’t know how the term ‘slave’ is being used. Could it be even more encompassing like, perhaps, everyone being ‘bound to earthly existence’?). Otherwise, the only info I have been able to find is a definition from Wiktionary:
If ‘TYRANNOC’ is being used as a name, rather than a description or title, than the only deity that I can find that might be related is Taranis, a Celtic thunder god. But I’m not sure about this.
I didn’t want to turn this into a ‘Mên’ post, so lastly, here are the oldest coins showing the Phrygian Cap:
Corinthia, Corinth- c. 375-400 BCE; Pegasos flying left on front. On reverse, Athena wearing Corinthian helmet looking left with Phrygian cap behind. (Link)
Kingdom of Macedon- c. 301-310 BCE; On front, head of Herakles wearing lion-skin headdress. On reverse, Zeus Aëtophoros seated to left, holding eagle, sceptre; AΛEΞANΔPOY to right, monogram in left field, male head facing left, wearing Phrygian cap, below throne. (Link)
Phaloria, Thessaly- c. 225-275 BCE; Apollo facing right on front. Bendis on reverse wearing short chiton, hunting boots and Phrygian cap, seated left on a rock, holding arrow in her right hand, spear in her left, and with bow and quiver over her shoulder. (Link)
Astypalaia, an Island off Caria- c. 1st-2nd centuries BCE; Perseus wearing a Phrygian cap. (Link)
Eumenia, Phrygia- c. 1-133 BCE; On the front is the bust of Mên looking right. On the reverse is an eight-pointed star with the letters ‘E-Y-M-E-N-E-Ω-N’ between the rays. (Denizli Museum 8863) The cap looks like it has bumps, almost like scales, all over it. This could be the earliest depiction of Mên on a coin. Another copy of this coin carries the same wide date of c. 1st-2nd centuries BCE. (Link)
When trying to find where Eumenia was, I ran into this curious bit of info.
Corinth was completely destroyed in 146 BCE by the Romans. ”When he entered the city, Lucius Mummius killed all the men and sold the women and children into slavery before burning the city, for which he was given the cognomen Achaicus as the conqueror of the Achaean League.” I found an example of the coin dated c. 244-249 AD dipicting Apollo-Mên riding a horse carrying a double-axe. I find it odd that this suggested connection between Eumenia and Corinth would be on a coin ~390 years after the event. A current town named Isikli appears to be where Eumeneia was.
Just my thoughts of what else the Phrygian cap looks like:
-a mushroom (eg: the psychoactive Liberty Cap)
-a bell
Benjamin
The Living Force
There was a section of the previous post that I decided to make into a ‘part II’. It's about the 'Phrygian' helmet.
Here are two Augustas coins from a Spanish mint, c. 16-18 BCE, that show a Capricorn holding a globe in front of a rudder with a cornucopiae above (in place of a wing?). In other pictures of cornucopiae (‘horn of plenty’, goat’s horn) I had seen, I thought that the Phrygian helmet kinda looked like it. But what I noticed first was the bumps on its tail and how similar they looked to the cap on the one Mên coin at the end of the previous post. Now, I understand that those bumps could be a design that’s been worn down and no longer showing what they actually were. I’ve seen worn laurel wreath designs look exactly like those bumps, but on the Mên cap it’s not a wreath because the bumps are all over. Unfortunately there’s no other coin to compare.
Regardless, there was a connection with water that I noticed coming up here and there which took me to Sicily.
From top to bottom: Link, Link, Link
Three coins from c. 354-344 BCE struck for Taurmenion, Sicily depicting a Campania Mercenary helmet on the front and the monogram ‘TK’ combined with ‘KAM’ surrounded by a laurel wreath on the back. (T- Tauromenion, K- Kampanoi, A- (?), M- Mercenario (?)) The monogram looks a little bit like the 'square and compass'.
This helmet, which I can only assume they wore, looks similar to ‘glowing’ Phrygian caps (helmets?) like the one depicted on the head of Darius I on the Darius Vase, for example.
While browsing other coins from Sicily, I came across some hippocamps. There are a lot of hippocamps on coins, but the ones from cities in Sicily seem to be unique, as far as I can find. They are the only ones to depict a spiky (glowing?) tail. These come from Solus and Syracuse, c. 350-400 BCE.
It would be fairly easy to think that this next helmet is a Campania Mercenary helmet based on the ridge but, as I understand, this is a Greco-Thracian helmet of possible Chalcidian variation, but I can’t find any solid info about it other than it’s c. 4th century BCE.
If you notice the gap between the two metal ridges at the top, that gap was apparently filled with horse hair to make a fan shape which is missing on the Camp. Merc. coins. Beautiful helmet. Obviously it has wings and what appears to be coiled snakes. The cheek pieces have a female figure on them who is probably a goddess (Athena? Bendis?). There are also two crests on the front, the lower being what looks like a partial disk of a man's bearded face or perhaps a gorgon, and above that is the emblem of a bird or gryphon, which could be why this is called a The Gryphon Helmet.
I ran into a forum thread on another site that had a link to a page with a Russian url where someone had uploaded a chapter from a book about Thracian armour. I can’t load the home page but I can load the link. This chapter focused on helmets.
This is a Thracian helmet. It’s not Phrygian at all although many people refer to it as such, I think, because of the shape. The chapter shows several other helmets like this and mentions that “21 “Thracian” helmets were found inside the territory of Ancient Thrace.” Being found in burial tombs, this one is dated to the first half of the 4th century BCE.
Also in the chapter I came across one sentence that might illuminate the meaning of this unique style.
A lot of ‘Ottoman’ comes up in the web searches, but when I went to the ‘Ottomany’ wikipage, hoping for a picture of the flame symbol, I think I lucked out.
The Ottomany culture is early bronze age, c. 1400-2100 BCE, from the area of Romania. I don’t know what they’re for but these are little bronze disks, although nothing is mentioned about there being a ‘flame symbol’, show a design that sure looks similar to the style of the Thracian helmet. It’s weird that it looks like a wave, as does the Phrygian cap, but here the design looks like a sun. Could it be a spinning comet coming straight on?
Or like a swastika from (#29) Pierre’s post that, maybe, the ‘Phrygian’ helmet/cap is perhaps one ‘arm’ of the 'spiky' or ‘glowing tail’ of that swastika?
Here are two Augustas coins from a Spanish mint, c. 16-18 BCE, that show a Capricorn holding a globe in front of a rudder with a cornucopiae above (in place of a wing?). In other pictures of cornucopiae (‘horn of plenty’, goat’s horn) I had seen, I thought that the Phrygian helmet kinda looked like it. But what I noticed first was the bumps on its tail and how similar they looked to the cap on the one Mên coin at the end of the previous post. Now, I understand that those bumps could be a design that’s been worn down and no longer showing what they actually were. I’ve seen worn laurel wreath designs look exactly like those bumps, but on the Mên cap it’s not a wreath because the bumps are all over. Unfortunately there’s no other coin to compare.
Regardless, there was a connection with water that I noticed coming up here and there which took me to Sicily.
From top to bottom: Link, Link, Link
Three coins from c. 354-344 BCE struck for Taurmenion, Sicily depicting a Campania Mercenary helmet on the front and the monogram ‘TK’ combined with ‘KAM’ surrounded by a laurel wreath on the back. (T- Tauromenion, K- Kampanoi, A- (?), M- Mercenario (?)) The monogram looks a little bit like the 'square and compass'.
This helmet, which I can only assume they wore, looks similar to ‘glowing’ Phrygian caps (helmets?) like the one depicted on the head of Darius I on the Darius Vase, for example.
While browsing other coins from Sicily, I came across some hippocamps. There are a lot of hippocamps on coins, but the ones from cities in Sicily seem to be unique, as far as I can find. They are the only ones to depict a spiky (glowing?) tail. These come from Solus and Syracuse, c. 350-400 BCE.
It would be fairly easy to think that this next helmet is a Campania Mercenary helmet based on the ridge but, as I understand, this is a Greco-Thracian helmet of possible Chalcidian variation, but I can’t find any solid info about it other than it’s c. 4th century BCE.
If you notice the gap between the two metal ridges at the top, that gap was apparently filled with horse hair to make a fan shape which is missing on the Camp. Merc. coins. Beautiful helmet. Obviously it has wings and what appears to be coiled snakes. The cheek pieces have a female figure on them who is probably a goddess (Athena? Bendis?). There are also two crests on the front, the lower being what looks like a partial disk of a man's bearded face or perhaps a gorgon, and above that is the emblem of a bird or gryphon, which could be why this is called a The Gryphon Helmet.
I ran into a forum thread on another site that had a link to a page with a Russian url where someone had uploaded a chapter from a book about Thracian armour. I can’t load the home page but I can load the link. This chapter focused on helmets.
This is a Thracian helmet. It’s not Phrygian at all although many people refer to it as such, I think, because of the shape. The chapter shows several other helmets like this and mentions that “21 “Thracian” helmets were found inside the territory of Ancient Thrace.” Being found in burial tombs, this one is dated to the first half of the 4th century BCE.
Also in the chapter I came across one sentence that might illuminate the meaning of this unique style.
A lot of ‘Ottoman’ comes up in the web searches, but when I went to the ‘Ottomany’ wikipage, hoping for a picture of the flame symbol, I think I lucked out.
The Ottomany culture is early bronze age, c. 1400-2100 BCE, from the area of Romania. I don’t know what they’re for but these are little bronze disks, although nothing is mentioned about there being a ‘flame symbol’, show a design that sure looks similar to the style of the Thracian helmet. It’s weird that it looks like a wave, as does the Phrygian cap, but here the design looks like a sun. Could it be a spinning comet coming straight on?
Or like a swastika from (#29) Pierre’s post that, maybe, the ‘Phrygian’ helmet/cap is perhaps one ‘arm’ of the 'spiky' or ‘glowing tail’ of that swastika?
Benjamin
The Living Force
I mentioned earlier about running into the word TYRANNOC (‘Tyrannus’), ‘the god of slaves’, found on a coin of Mên. Thinking it was some kind of deity or title, I found something that is, potentially, a bit more concrete. There was a group of people known as the Tyrrhenians that was first spoken of by Hesiod (8th century BCE). There is no race or culture known to have this name so it’s been established that it generally refers to a group of non-Greek people and specifically to pirates!
There is a body of water known as the Tyrrhenian Sea located west of the Italian Peninsula to the islands of Corsica and Sardinia, and north of Sicily. It gets its name from the Tyrrhenian people who are identified with the Etruscans. On the coastline south of Etruria (Etruscan) was Campania (of Campanian Mercenaries fame who made their ‘base’ in Sicily).
Strabo 6.2.2:
Like TYRANNOC, I looked at the Wiktionary page for Tyrrhenians.
Tyrannoc/tyrannos
Tyrrhenian/tyrrinos
Could ‘TYRANNOC’ on the Mên coin be a reference to these pirates in the Tyrrhenian Sea?
These Campanian Mercenaries have quite a violent history. Following the Death of Agathoclese of Syracuse, the Campanian mercenaries take over the city of Messana c. 289 BCE, massacring all the male inhabitants and assuming their wives and property for themselves. At this point they gave themselves the name Mamertini, ‘the children of Mars’. Mamer is the Oscan word equivalent to the god Mars. It also sounds like they played both the Carthaginians and the Romans to start the First Punic War. See the 15-20 minute article 'The Sons of Mars' for the very convoluted story.
There is a body of water known as the Tyrrhenian Sea located west of the Italian Peninsula to the islands of Corsica and Sardinia, and north of Sicily. It gets its name from the Tyrrhenian people who are identified with the Etruscans. On the coastline south of Etruria (Etruscan) was Campania (of Campanian Mercenaries fame who made their ‘base’ in Sicily).
Strabo 6.2.2:
Like TYRANNOC, I looked at the Wiktionary page for Tyrrhenians.
Tyrannoc/tyrannos
Tyrrhenian/tyrrinos
Could ‘TYRANNOC’ on the Mên coin be a reference to these pirates in the Tyrrhenian Sea?
These Campanian Mercenaries have quite a violent history. Following the Death of Agathoclese of Syracuse, the Campanian mercenaries take over the city of Messana c. 289 BCE, massacring all the male inhabitants and assuming their wives and property for themselves. At this point they gave themselves the name Mamertini, ‘the children of Mars’. Mamer is the Oscan word equivalent to the god Mars. It also sounds like they played both the Carthaginians and the Romans to start the First Punic War. See the 15-20 minute article 'The Sons of Mars' for the very convoluted story.
Benjamin
The Living Force
On pages 116-118 of the book Eastern Cults in Moesia Inferior and Thracia (5th Century BC - 4th Century AD) (1983) by Margarita Tacheva-Hitova, there was an interesting reconstructed Latin inscription on a damaged marble slab found in Serdica, Thrace.
I ran this though a machine translator but have no idea how accurate it is. I think there are some problems because, for instance, it was mentioned that the name ‘Stratonicus’ could be the name of the emperor’s slave but in the translation it seems to be a part of Augustus Caesar’s name.
Tacheva-Hitova mentions that line 9 was reconstructed by Otto Walter to read: “fec(it) [et Atti Menoty]ranno per …”. Menotyrannus is a title or name (?), of some sort, that has been found after 'Attis' thus becoming ‘Attis Menotyrannus’. She mentions that this name appears in inscriptions on private taurobolia, with reservations, as late as the 4th century. (for many other samples in Latin inscriptions, see here). However, along with other researchers, she doubts the restoration, in this case, since there is not enough physical space on the stone slab for those words to fit. Instead:
This relic makes a second appearance later in the book under the short section on Mên from pages 277-279, where she reiterates her acceptance for ‘Tyrannos’ as the name of a person.
On the perseus site, there is a listing for Tyrannus.
As a sidenote: It then continues on with a lengthy explanation of the meaning of Tyrannus/tyrant using Aristotle’s definition. For more on this, see the Tyrant wiki and, “The Thirty Tyrants” on p. 267 of CatHoM. Also, interestingly, the first use of coins as money came from Lydia. I haven’t read it because I don’t have access, but Percy Ure believes this could be the origin of tyrants. (The Origin of the Tyrannis, 1906) But this is not the direction of this post.
Coming back to the inscription with ‘Tyrannus’ as an actual name, I’m not sure about that. The inscription could be used like that found on the Mên ‘TYRANNOC’ coin, perhaps as a shortened version of Menotyrannus. Then again, it could be referring to an individual person (a donor who didn’t want to be named?) in or of 2nd century AD Nicaea, at least in this case. Who could that be? I had a brief look but didn’t get into it deeply.
I'm not well read, but I’ve never seen a person with the name ‘Tyrannus’; that is until I ran into a little story about Paul living in Ephesus and, apparently, attending the Jewish synagogue there. (NIV- Acts 19:8-9)
In The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (1962) under ‘Tyrannus, Hall of’, it says:
I'm just going to propose this. Earlier I had reported that when a temple of Mên was founded, it took on the name of the founder. So, could this be the temple of ‘Mên Tyrannus’ at Ephesus? I still don’t think it’s some guy’s name, though. There are many inscriptions from several different places where the 'term' is used as a title/description for the deity. I’m also not aware of a Mên temple (named or unnamed) being found here. But with the word ‘Tyrannus’ being associated with Mên, did Paul study/preach at a Mên temple at Ephesus? (...before he was arrested in 49 AD and sent to Rome?)
Further conjecture, there is mention of '50,000 drachmas of scrolls' being burned as well as a (confusing) riot in the Acts chapter. Could the scrolls have belonged to this temple, if it existed, which was then sacked (by Zealots?) during the riot?
I ran this though a machine translator but have no idea how accurate it is. I think there are some problems because, for instance, it was mentioned that the name ‘Stratonicus’ could be the name of the emperor’s slave but in the translation it seems to be a part of Augustus Caesar’s name.
Tacheva-Hitova mentions that line 9 was reconstructed by Otto Walter to read: “fec(it) [et Atti Menoty]ranno per …”. Menotyrannus is a title or name (?), of some sort, that has been found after 'Attis' thus becoming ‘Attis Menotyrannus’. She mentions that this name appears in inscriptions on private taurobolia, with reservations, as late as the 4th century. (for many other samples in Latin inscriptions, see here). However, along with other researchers, she doubts the restoration, in this case, since there is not enough physical space on the stone slab for those words to fit. Instead:
This relic makes a second appearance later in the book under the short section on Mên from pages 277-279, where she reiterates her acceptance for ‘Tyrannos’ as the name of a person.
On the perseus site, there is a listing for Tyrannus.
As a sidenote: It then continues on with a lengthy explanation of the meaning of Tyrannus/tyrant using Aristotle’s definition. For more on this, see the Tyrant wiki and, “The Thirty Tyrants” on p. 267 of CatHoM. Also, interestingly, the first use of coins as money came from Lydia. I haven’t read it because I don’t have access, but Percy Ure believes this could be the origin of tyrants. (The Origin of the Tyrannis, 1906) But this is not the direction of this post.
Coming back to the inscription with ‘Tyrannus’ as an actual name, I’m not sure about that. The inscription could be used like that found on the Mên ‘TYRANNOC’ coin, perhaps as a shortened version of Menotyrannus. Then again, it could be referring to an individual person (a donor who didn’t want to be named?) in or of 2nd century AD Nicaea, at least in this case. Who could that be? I had a brief look but didn’t get into it deeply.
I'm not well read, but I’ve never seen a person with the name ‘Tyrannus’; that is until I ran into a little story about Paul living in Ephesus and, apparently, attending the Jewish synagogue there. (NIV- Acts 19:8-9)
In The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (1962) under ‘Tyrannus, Hall of’, it says:
I'm just going to propose this. Earlier I had reported that when a temple of Mên was founded, it took on the name of the founder. So, could this be the temple of ‘Mên Tyrannus’ at Ephesus? I still don’t think it’s some guy’s name, though. There are many inscriptions from several different places where the 'term' is used as a title/description for the deity. I’m also not aware of a Mên temple (named or unnamed) being found here. But with the word ‘Tyrannus’ being associated with Mên, did Paul study/preach at a Mên temple at Ephesus? (...before he was arrested in 49 AD and sent to Rome?)
Further conjecture, there is mention of '50,000 drachmas of scrolls' being burned as well as a (confusing) riot in the Acts chapter. Could the scrolls have belonged to this temple, if it existed, which was then sacked (by Zealots?) during the riot?
Gallo
Jedi
The government will deploy police, drones, cameras, artificial intelligence-assisted surveillance tested in real life to keep it going after their grandiose gladiatorial show.
At the moment, the discontent is rising in "our" France. Is this another test like the "pandemic"? To see how far they can go without the people reacting? Do you think that putting Phrygian caps on all French people in these troubled times will not make more people want to see our dear president's head fall into a basket?
Or would they use this symbol to justify another hardening, because some would precisely ask for the revolution 2.0?
In short, either they are looking for trouble on purpose, or they take us for fools. I'm leaning towards both solutions, but that the goal is the first one.
At the moment, the discontent is rising in "our" France. Is this another test like the "pandemic"? To see how far they can go without the people reacting? Do you think that putting Phrygian caps on all French people in these troubled times will not make more people want to see our dear president's head fall into a basket?
Or would they use this symbol to justify another hardening, because some would precisely ask for the revolution 2.0?
In short, either they are looking for trouble on purpose, or they take us for fools. I'm leaning towards both solutions, but that the goal is the first one.
Benjamin
The Living Force
Last week, I was thinking the Phrygian cap was perhaps a seafarers, or 'pirate' cap on the heads of some group of Sea Peoples like the Tyrrhenians. And maybe it was. But I think I'm going to have a hard time finding any evidence for that.
Shortly after I posted the previous idea above, another idea came to me (very clearly strangely) that was interesting. It deals with our current understanding of what a tyrant is. There are two definitions for 'tyrant', the first being neutral and the second being negative. There is no positive definition, even though there have been 'good' tyrants. Stripped down to its basic definition, a tyrant is a leader. The definitions that we have come from the Greek understanding of the word which, as mentioned, have not been satisfactorily explained. So could the pre-Greek meaning have been something like a shaman? And then I wonder if the Phrygian cap is a symbol of a shaman.
This cap actually brought up a story from my sister. Back in the early 90's, she lived in Ghana twice, both times for something like 6 months, I'm not quite sure, but they were extended stays. She would bring back clothes and other items from there for the family and one of the presents she gave me was a brimless cloth cap. It was only about 10-11" tall, and had a round base sewn in such a way that it had a square, flat top. This cap was wore by pretty much every man. Some wore them straight up, but most 'flopped' it to one side or the other. However, there were a very few who had them bent to the front. She told me that only certain men could wear the cap that way because it meant that they had 'special powers' (or something like that), sort of like a medicine man.
Shortly after I posted the previous idea above, another idea came to me (very clearly strangely) that was interesting. It deals with our current understanding of what a tyrant is. There are two definitions for 'tyrant', the first being neutral and the second being negative. There is no positive definition, even though there have been 'good' tyrants. Stripped down to its basic definition, a tyrant is a leader. The definitions that we have come from the Greek understanding of the word which, as mentioned, have not been satisfactorily explained. So could the pre-Greek meaning have been something like a shaman? And then I wonder if the Phrygian cap is a symbol of a shaman.
This cap actually brought up a story from my sister. Back in the early 90's, she lived in Ghana twice, both times for something like 6 months, I'm not quite sure, but they were extended stays. She would bring back clothes and other items from there for the family and one of the presents she gave me was a brimless cloth cap. It was only about 10-11" tall, and had a round base sewn in such a way that it had a square, flat top. This cap was wore by pretty much every man. Some wore them straight up, but most 'flopped' it to one side or the other. However, there were a very few who had them bent to the front. She told me that only certain men could wear the cap that way because it meant that they had 'special powers' (or something like that), sort of like a medicine man.
Benjamin
The Living Force
Or rather, a tyrant is a failed shaman.
