Personal numerology : is it useful ?

[Adaryn]

Hi,
I wanted to ask about numerological themes, what we can learn about ourselves from them. The problem seems to be that most of interpretations we find on the various sites on the subject are not reliable. For example, the number 9 for most "numerologists" is interpreted as positive/altruistic/divine, whereas I read on the cass site that it would be more of a diabolical number, having to do with entrapment of humanity, as it means "cycle" (9 months gestation, for ex). So it would mean repeating cycles over and over. Which is NOT positive.
In a book about symbolism, I've read this number is considered by some as not a heavenly number, but an earthly/material number : the 6 is seen as heavenly, since the end of its loop is pointed to heaven, whereas the end of 9's loop is pointed, planted, in earth.

Same for 11, it's considered by "numerologists" to be a powerful number, an intense vibrational number symbolizing a portal, change of consciousness, important event, or whatever (11:11, 9/11). But some cultures consider it as evil.

When we look at the 9/11 event, and the fact that the C's said it was a warning to humanity about a possible dreadful future, a continuation of the entrapment instead of a liberation from these endless cycles, these numbers don't sound positive at first sight.
But, could they be used in a positive way ?

In the case of a recurrence of the number 9 in a personal theme (using first name, surname and date of birth), I wanted to ask if anyone would have an idea about a way of reliable interpretation. A reliable and serious book about numerology, or insights from someone here well versed on the subject.
This is my case, which is why I wonder about this damned number, as it's everywhere in my theme :
Number of expression : 9
Intimate number : 9
Realisation (lifepath?) number : 9
Evolution number : 9
(hereditary number : 5)
Does it mean entrapment ? if so, is it a risk of entrapment, or a kind of warning ? OR does it mean I have to repeat something again in this lifetime ? If so, I wonder what it could be.
Or, does it mean something else entirely ?

Same for 11, someone close to me has 11 twice in their theme : what could it mean ?

Does anyone here have a recurrence of these 9 and/or 11 in their themes ?
If yes, what's your take on it ?
And more generally, for pple interested on numerological themes, what have you learned from it ?

Thanks for your possible answers.

 

[vinny]

have you read Theodore Illion's 'Darkness Over Tibet'?

here's a bit pasted from Laura's article on the book:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/tibet.htm

Back to Illion: he doesn't like the number nine either, and probably for the same, or similar, reasons that I never cared for it. It is the number of the Ennead, the Nine Gods of Egypt, and the product of 666. He gets into a discussion about numerology with Narbu and his ideas are truly interesting in light of the C's material, so I beg the reader's indulgence once more while I share them. Illion tells Narbu:

"I think man ought not to carry numerological speculations beyond the figure five."

"Why that?" asks Narbu.

"Five is the number of man. The higher number lead to complication and perdition, the smaller ones to God."

"But surely the number nine exists!" exclaims Narbu.

"It does, because the conventional system of counting runs up to nine, and then ten quite arbitrarily becomes the higher unit. We could just as well adopt a system in which we should have only four figures, namely one, two, three, four, five being equivalent to the higher unit. Then nine would not exist, nor would six, seven and eight, which in my opinion - arithmosophically - are all numbers of complication, entanglement, and seduction."

"What an original idea!" exclaimed Narbu. "I have studied numerology for several years. Its occult bearing is enormous. Figures have an occult connection with abstract notions with which we co-relate them. In this way figures can be made a kind of medium between the Divine and man."

"Numerology is a highly double-edged affair although it looks quite harmless," observed Illion.

"Suppose we get down to concrete numerological notions, " said Narbu. "Take one: one is the number of oneness - the number of non-manifested Divinity. I think you must agree to this."

"Yes," said Illion, "I do. If we imagine a point in space, it is a mere abstraction, for a point really is immaterial. So one is the number of undivided abstract existence."

"I am surprised that you introduce geometrical notions into the field of numerology. It is a very original idea, "observed Narbu. "Now let us take the figure two. It represents the contrast between spirit and matter."

"I profoundly disagree with you here," said Illion.

"Do you deny that two is the number of contrasts?" asked Narbu, greatly surprised.

"I agree that two is the number of contrasts," Illion answered, "but not the contrast you have just mentioned. If we take two points in space, they determine the position of a straight line, which also is immaterial. But it remains to be seen what abstract contrast is reflected by the figure two. You say it is one between spirit and matter. In my opinion you are wrong. Spirit is an abstraction but matter is not. So the abstract line represented by figure two which connects two point, each of which is immaterial, really is the contrast between two different kinds of spirit and not between spirit and matter. There must be two altogether different types of spirituality which are diametrically opposed to each other. That, in my opinion, is the numerological significance of the number two."

We then discussed three and four, and agreed that three was the dynamic number par excellence and four the number of matter. Three points scattered in space determine the position of a triangle, but only four abstract points lay down the outline of a geometrical form having corporeal existence. With three, therefore, we leave the realm of the abstract, and with four we enter the domain of the concrete. Four is the number of the visible universe, the number of matter.

"If we imagine five points scattered in space and call them A, B, C, D and E, we may envisage A, B, C and D only and obtain a geometrical form. But we may also link up A, B, C and E, and obtain another geometrical form. In fact, we can obtain five different combinations, namely ABCD, ABCE, ABDE, ACDE and BCDE. Five therefore represents the interpenetration of five different spaces. With five the creature has reached the very limits of its existence. Five is the number of the creature and the number of manifested life which seems to exist simultaneously on five planes. Man live, if I may say so, in five different realms, viz., the physical one and those of sensation, feeling, intelligence, and will. These are five realms which interpenetrate each other.

"If you imagine six points scattered in space, a synthetical geometrical conception of the various connections between the six points is obviously beyond the reach of man. As I said before, the figures exceeding five - viewed numerologically - have a dissociating effect on the personality of man. They are numbers of perdition." [...]

"[C]an you give me a short definition of what matter really is?"

"Matter," Illion replied, "may be regarded as the battleground on which two different types of spirituality fight each other."

"That is where we disagree again. I always thought that there was only one type of spirituality," said Narbu.

"I think this is a question to be decided by experience rather than by argument," said Illion.

I don't really understand numerology, but I have wondered about whether the crop circles' messages are based on the fundamental structure of numbers.

 

[Laura]

The question that should be asked is whether or not the formulas that you are working with are even viable? You say it is "everywhere in my theme". And then you list:

his is my case, which is why I wonder about this damned number, as it's everywhere in my theme :
Number of expression : 9
Intimate number : 9
Realisation (lifepath?) number : 9
Evolution number : 9
(hereditary number : 5)

Where did all that come from? Who says you have a "number of expression" or an "intimate number" or a "lifepath number" etc?

Who comes up with this kind of stuff?

Another thing to consider about numbers is explained by Umberto Eco in "Foucault's Pendulum" which I quoted in the Wave ( http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave13c.htm )

Amid all the nonsense there are some unimpeachable truths... I invite you to go and measure [an arbitrarily selected, but specific] kiosk. you will see that the length of the counter is one hundred and forty-nine centimeters - in other words, one hundred-billionth of the distance between the earth and the sun. The height at the rear, one hundred and seventy-six centimeters, divided by the width of the window, fifty-six centimeters, is 3.14. The height at the front is nineteen decimeters, equal, in other words, to the number of years of the Greek lunar cycle. The sum of the heights of the two front corners is one hundred and ninety times two plus one hundred and seventy-six times two, which equals seven hundred and thirty-two, the date of the victory at Poitiers. The thickness of the counter is 3.10 centimeters, and the width of the cornice of the window is 8.8 centimeters. Replacing the numbers before the decimals by the corresponding letters of the alphabet, we obtain C for ten and H for eight, or C10H8, which is the formula for naphthalene. ...With numbers you can do anything you like. Suppose I have the sacred number 9 and I want to get the number 1314, date of the execution of Jacques de Molay - a date dear to anyone who professes devotion to the Templar tradition of knighthood.

...Multiply nine by one hundred and forty-six, the fateful day of the destruction of Carthage. How did I arrive at this? I divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by two, by three, et cetera, until I found a satisfying date. I could also have divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by 6.28, the double of 3.14, and I would have got two hundred and nine. That is the year Attalus I, king of Pergamon, ascended the throne. You see? ...The universe is a great symphony of numerical correspondences... numbers and their symbolisms provide a path to special knowledge. But if the world, below and above, is a system of correspondences where tout se tient, it's natural for the [lottery] kiosk and the pyramid, both works of man, to reproduce in their structure, unconsciously, the harmonies of the cosmos. [Foucault's Pendulum, Eco, 1988, pp.288, 289

See?

Further, the best system I have found for "finding" a useful number that actually seems to express something about the individual, is a very simple formula: use month and day only for the birth number, (don't use the year) and use the name that is the birth name. And it seems that the birth number is more important than the name number.

Now, what I have observed over time is that an individual whose "birth number" is 9 generally is very much focused on having a partner or co-worker in any endeavor, and that they most often manifest, or display, the characteristics of the relationship rather than any really strong self focus. This can be good and it can be bad. It is good when they are partnered with an individual who is benevolent towards them, but it can be bad if they are partnered with someone who is less developed.

For example, if you are a 9 and your partner is a 4, then you are effectively a mirror of 4 and the relationship is a 4. etc. 4 is a working number. On the positive side, it can mean that the two work together very well, on the negative, it can mean that a lot of work has to be done to keep the relationship intact.

If a house number is 4, it can manifest this "work" potential positively or negatively also; either you will have a business that you operate out of your house, or the house itself will constantly need repair.

In another case, a person who is a 5 and is partnered with a 1, would have the relationship number 6. This is a number that can either be a dynamic, perfectly balanced relationship, or one where emotion dominates and there is a lot of fighting followed by kissing and making up. That is, after all, a kind of "balancing act."

Again, here I am not working with name numbers, but rather with birth numbers that consist of adding the month number to the day, excluding the year. I've never found much value in name numbers.

All the other stuff is, as far as I have been able to determine, just manufactured nonsense designed to sell books or take in the credulous.

 

[Adaryn]

Thanks Laura for your answer.

question that should be asked is whether or not the formulas that you are working with are even viable? You say it is "everywhere in my theme". And then you list:
his is my case, which is why I wonder about this damned number, as it's everywhere in my theme :
Number of expression : 9
Intimate number : 9
Realisation (lifepath?) number : 9
Evolution number : 9
(hereditary number : 5)
Where did all that come from? Who says you have a "number of expression" or an "intimate number" or a "lifepath number" etc?

Who comes up with this kind of stuff?

I should have begun by the sources, sorry. I just used the basics of numerology that one can find on standard sites on the subject. I had my theme also made by a friend, who said the same things as most sites about the interpretation of numbers.
I checked with an automatic calculator where you just enter your first name, surname and full birth date, on these sites (in french):
http://www.numerologie-online.com/
http://www.numerologie.ch/

Number of expression is calculated with all the letters of the first name and surname
Intimate number with the vowels of the first name and surname
Realisation number with the consonants of first name and surname
Evolution number with the day and month of birth

I wanted not to preoccupy myself too much with this stuff, but I freaked out (I think I'm a bit of a supertitious person) to have all these 9's when I saw the nefarious aspect of this number, as explained on the page Darkness over Tibet. I wanted to know if this negative aspect of 9 was also appliable to an individual's numerology. If there was some kind of message or warning or significance conveyed by this number, or if it could reveal something about the possible destiny or orientation of an individual.

Another thing to consider about numbers is explained by Umberto Eco in "Foucault's Pendulum" which I quoted in the Wave ( http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave13c.htm )
...
See?

Quite, at least I try to :/ (maths and numbers are not really my cup of tea)

Further, the best system I have found for "finding" a useful number that actually seems to express something about the individual, is a very simple formula: use month and day only for the birth number, (don't use the year) and use the name that is the birth name. And it seems that the birth number is more important than the name number.

OK, so in my case it's 9 for the birth number and 5 for the name number.

Now, what I have observed over time is that an individual whose "birth number" is 9 generally is very much focused on having a partner or co-worker in any endeavor

I think it's the case for me, yes. That seems to be my motivation.

, and that they most often manifest, or display, the characteristics of the relationship rather than any really strong self focus.

That tends to be the case regarding myself as well, yes. But at the same time I feel a urge to self focus. Which often leads to inner conflicts, in a couple relationship : preserving the Entity of the relation (1 + 1 = not 2 persons but a third entity) or expressing personal tendencies and goals, risking to feel and to be considered selfish and individualistic ?
It has often led to embarrassing situations with my (ex)partner(s) whenever we were in an assembly with non family people, where I couldn't / can't seem to find an appropriate behaviour : shall I express my self alone, as a single individual, severing myself from the couple entity ? Or shall I stick to the consensus and stay aligned to my partner's view, or try to drag my partner to my view ? Which often caused very embarrassing situations (since I was embarrassed with my partner's behaviour and didn't know how to react).

This can be good and it can be bad. It is good when they are partnered with an individual who is benevolent towards them, but it can be bad if they are partnered with someone who is less developed.

I think, and I don't know if you could observe it on the 9 people you interacted with, that maybe "9 people" benefit the most from someone who is a bit more developed. I tend to follow and not to lead, and am very interested in a common goal rather than individual achievement. I mean, I never had a strong personal ambition, and though i like to work or do my stuff isolated, it often has to be on a project in partnership, in common, an outside goal. Otherwise I see no point in it. But I don't know if it's a trait of the 9 or if it comes from elsewhere.
And, by the way, my partner is a 1 (19 > 1 + 9 > 10 > 1 + 0 > 1) for the birth number and 2 (11 ?) for the name number (another oddity : some sites reduce 11 to 2, some keep it as 11).

So from what I understood, there's no point in focusing too much on our numerology, in giving them too much significance. It can reveal something about the personality and tendencies, but not something about the destiny ?

I read about Illion's piece and what it says about 1,2,3,4 and 9.
But what about 6, 7, 8, and 11 ? What is the true meaning of these numbers, what do they convey - especially in individuals themes ? Since you say all most sources say about them are just manufactured nonsense, I guess I can't rely on the standard numerological webistes or books. I don't recall reading something about numerology in the C's sessions... but I haven't read all the C's sessions yet.

Thanks anyway for your enlightening remarks.

 

[manitoban]

If a house number is 4, it can manifest this "work" potential positively or negatively also; either you will have a business that you operate out of your house, or the house itself will constantly need repair.

I moved house last year, into a house number which adds to 4 and I can honestly say I've never lived in a place where there is so much repair work constantly! There is always something breaking down. I've also noticed that my husband brings home work a lot more than at our old house. But, interestingly, I also find this house a place where I can do the Work with less distractions than in my old place.

 

[mikeh433]

Try and find Vedic Numerolgy book. Then you can judge.

 

[Beau]

Try and find Vedic Numerolgy book. Then you can judge.

What does this mean??

 

[Mikey]

In a book about symbolism, I've read this number is considered by some as not a heavenly number, but an earthly/material number : the 6 is seen as heavenly, since the end of its loop is pointed to heaven, whereas the end of 9's loop is pointed, planted, in earth.

I am not an expert in numerology but once heard the opposite interpreation, which is out there:
6 is the numer of earth/matter because you draw it from the top and then loop below, therefore binding it to earth/matter. 9 being the heavenly/christ number because you draw from below and loop "in heaven". 666, of course, fits this explanation. Strange to say, the sum of 666 = 18 = 9.

"I think man ought not to carry numerological speculations beyond the figure five."

I heard that in the numerical kabbala there are interpretations for numbers up to 30 or so.

Who comes up with this kind of stuff?

The issue also comes up in concurrent I Ching interpretations. I bought a "cosmological, universal" interpretation of it, as opposed to the traditional but feudalistic interpretation from Wilhelm. In this book, nearly every line and hexagram is interpreted as a out-of-control ego driven situation. The book is totally ego centered.

If the noise is not in the numbers (birth dates are most certainly valid), it is certainly and deliberately injected in interpretations.

In the I Ching noise can occur in both, the hexagrams and in the interpretations.

 

[mikeh433]

What does this mean??

Well from my standpoint, it means that at a library perhaps 7 years ago, I ran into a book which I thought was titled Vedic Numerology. I did the three calculations and found to my amazement, the shortest most accurate description of my situation I had ever encountered. I could never find that book again, trying many different ways, methods and names, anywhere.

I do numerology to probably an extreme degree. Supposedly from help/inspiration from one of the local solar system gods as well as to my own nature. But only numbers under 1 million. My conclusions are the omega point should occur Jan 27, 2007, as the start of the end. 2 weeks of furious effort by the powers and its all but over. Bush Jr's number is up (for practical purposes) on Feb 11, 2007.

Does anyone happen to have what the C's claimed as Jesus birth date? Jan 6 4 BC or something like that?

 

[Pierre]

Does anyone happen to have what the C's claimed as Jesus birth date? Jan 6 4 BC or something like that?

So here are we suppose to reply the following ?

session 940930
Q: (L) What date, counting backwards in our calendrical
system, was Jesus born on?
A: 01 06 minus 14.

 

[mikeh433]

Thanks, I think. Does that look like 8 days BC to you? I'm cleaning up loose ends here - everything stays the same like I said.

 

[christx11]

I would interpret '01 06 minus 14' as 14 BCE, and either Jan 6th, or June 01, depending on how the C's were responding. I'm not sure where you interpret 8 days in this? It seems numbers may have become a ritual for you and could be clouding your perception from seeing what is plainly expressed.

 

[mikeh433]

Thank you, I realized they may have been talking 14 years instead of 14 days. I may well be deluded as you say,but the info I got from local solar system god seems to make sense as I pointed out dates as we shall see or not see. Cloudy for 7 years and now suddenly everything makes sense.

 

[mikeh433]

OK, to put more information on my perspective and what I meant by what I had said, though it may really pertain to no one's interest outside of myself, though it will indeed affect this entire world profoundly,

First I point out another site about 4-d transformation from perhaps a more spiritual perspective? I suspect C's refer to mind/intellect more.

(http://)www(dot)operationterra.com/Messages/

I could be wrong, but there is much here I like anyway.

I did practice alot of meditation and was reclusive for a few years, but got thrust unwillingly into the midst of large problems. I don't necessarily agree with Laura point of view on this meditation and reclusiveness dismissing.

From where I got inspiration/information was from a god who said was in 144th dimension - no mention of density.

What I refer to Omega point is ECONOMICALLY related (possibly only so). Quite likely not to have to do with earth changes or density shift if such thing is valid. I noted a predictions site posted by someone called Laura (here on Psi forum) and his proofs of 7's. Well among other proofs, the main proofs of profound economic happenings is my proofs of 49^2's or 7 to the 4th power, oft multiplied by some other number. So without mentioning WHAT, we will see if afterwards you can clearly identify such economic happenings on such and such mentioned dates.

Oh well, I will say final blow off in stock markets and gold, a crash in both and then resumption of bull trend in gold with a crash in the dollar. With very unvaluable dollars, let's see how the CABAL proceeds with world conquest plans.

 

[highmystica]

I have serious problems with numerology - Generally speaking in the western systems the numbers mean approximately the same things, but the values assigned to them in english, greek, hebrew and arabic differ on several letters. I suppose one can go to the root of such systems and use the values from archaic egyptian or the katapayadhi system (for the vedic), but for any given system my numbers end up so different and the meanings as well. Likewise for dates ... who's calander do you want to use? My feeling is that if something happens on a given date that is presented as being somehow meaningfull then it has been somehow co-opted. Like 9/11 for example. I see numerology in as superstitious nonsense at the best and an aspect of a control system at the worst - I mean really - in any of these systems what does the value of a letter have to do with the actual sound? Ultimately, what do any of the numerology systems do to help one grow spiritually? My thought is that they do nothing, absolutely nothing, well being that these systems actually take energy and give nothing in return I suppose they do something, but nothing of value ...