Personal Steps to move toward STO polarization

[Cyre2067]

For me being too STS makes me feel "off". IE if i have a weekend in NYC where there's lots of drinking, smoking, sex etc. The whole following week ill have cold. Sure its fun at the time, but later its like, well what did i learn? Was the experience useful or just another repeat? Its like watching a DVD over and over, sure i enjoy the movie, but i always know what the outcome will be.

My point is that i want to change the dynamic. I'm "bored" with my current pattern, i want to try something "new". I'm also rebellious in nature, i always tend to do whatever is not being done. If something is popular ill do the opposite just to see the reaction, its in my nature. Seeing as we're in an STS environment being STO is "rebellious".

That and I realized the predator's mind existence and it pushes me, manipulates me. I want to be free of it, and gaining objectivity, and 4D seems to be the only way thus far i've found to find the "real" me and put him/me in charge.

So while STS is "valid" its not being chosen, its being forced upon me and therefore to me, its not valid at all.

 

[Beau]

For me being too STS makes me feel "off". IE if i have a weekend in NYC where there's lots of drinking, smoking, sex etc. The whole following week ill have cold. Sure its fun at the time, but later its like, well what did i learn? Was the experience useful or just another repeat? Its like watching a DVD over and over, sure i enjoy the movie, but i always know what the outcome will be.

Perhaps you get sick from being drained by the people who engage in these activities. It's not STS to have a few drinks. Does feeling off have anything to do with the amount of consumption? Your body is basically saying slow down!

My point is that i want to change the dynamic. I'm "bored" with my current pattern, i want to try something "new". I'm also rebellious in nature, i always tend to do whatever is not being done. If something is popular ill do the opposite just to see the reaction, its in my nature. Seeing as we're in an STS environment being STO is "rebellious".

Are you really sure you are seeking experiences to learn, or is it just to "have a different experience"? I mean, if you never learned anything from the previous experiences, of which you are now sick of, what makes you think you will next time? Are you really being rebellious, or is that part of you just a program?

This could be totally out in left field here, but to me, it sounds like you have an overreactive motor center. You seem like you want to be constantly moving, whether that is intellectually or physically. Not that you want to completely erase that, but sometimes the energies of the other centers(intellectual and emotional) are usurped by your motor center, which is possibly why you keep looking forward for the next experience but sometimes can't look back at others and learn from them. The other centers are just trying to catch up.

Darnit if I can't find the proper quotes from Gurdjieff, but I believe he talks about this type as Man #1... someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Cyre2067]

Are you really sure you are seeking experiences to learn, or is it just to "have a different experience"? I mean, if you never learned anything from the previous experiences, of which you are now sick of, what makes you think you will next time? Are you really being rebellious, or is that part of you just a program?

This could be totally out in left field here, but to me, it sounds like you have an overreactive motor center. You seem like you want to be constantly moving, whether that is intellectually or physically. Not that you want to completely erase that, but sometimes the energies of the other centers(intellectual and emotional) are usurped by your motor center, which is possibly why you keep looking forward for the next experience but sometimes can't look back at others and learn from them. The other centers are just trying to catch up.

Darnit if I can't find the proper quotes from Gurdjieff, but I believe he talks about this type as Man #1... someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yep it is man number 1. I'm not sure which type i am, however i kinda labelled myself 3 and perhaps that was pure ego, im not sure. Mostly because im more conversational and esoteric, or "out there" as my father likes to say.

I mean, isn't learning having a new experience and incorporating it into your mental repetoire? I always considered myself to be a sum of my genetics and my experiences, as are we all, at least until we grow will. I figured my current status quo is the way it is because I need to learn from it before it can progress and as such im attempting to enact some changes that I believe demonstrate that learning. Again it could be all ego, but other then my reading and presence here im not sure what else im supposed to learn, perhaps patience.

Thou i must say repeating the same weekly pattern for... going on 11 months now is quite "boring". however in those 11 months i've learned a great deal more about the universe then i have ever, in my entire life proceeding it, largely thanks to the links and material presented here... maybe this boredom is the predator's creation.

Learning to be patient is one of those things that comes with time, and as a young male raised in america its lacking within myself. The question becomes then how do I acquire patience and cease these feeling boredom, if it originates within the predator and not myself perhaps I should just keep gaining knowledge and quit my complainin...

 

[Ruth]

For me being too STS makes me feel "off". IE if i have a weekend in NYC where there's lots of drinking, smoking, sex etc. The whole following week ill have cold. Sure its fun at the time, but later its like, well what did i learn? Was the experience useful or just another repeat? Its like watching a DVD over and over, sure i enjoy the movie, but i always know what the outcome will be.

If you are more physical by nature than mental nature, why not try to do something that diciplines both mind and body (or at least gets them to 'work' together, particularly if they aren't inclined to do much of that). Doing something like martial arts or yoga, trains both the mind and the body to work in some form of co-operation.

Of course, you'll have to ask yourself how much of your 'rebeliousness' is reserved only for actions or things you find interesting and enjoy... Might be an interesting 'test' to find something perceived as 'un-cool' and try it. Providing it diciplines both the mind and the body. Doing that would provide you with another perspective on 'dicipline' which doesn't focus on self denial, but instead provides some form of 'training'. T

Think carefully before you do it though. It would be a pity to waste an opportunity to 'test' yourself or gain some personal insight by being too hasty or making up your mind too quickly on something (too easy too).

 

[Russ]

Well, STO seems to exist to stop the entropy from getting to a stage where it reaches the point of no return. So, it would be true in a way that STS is not actually detrimental to the universe, but in some ways, it is - its just that STO stops it from happenning. I don't mean forcefully stopping, but just by "being there".

Well, what I really mean is: will the Universe become unbalanced if WE do not progress to 4th density STO, is there a limit on how balance can be achieved considering that we are supposedly one tiny aspect of the creation? Also, true STS does not exist beyond 5th density, so could it ever lead to entropy which is to the detriment of the whole balance?

That we are a tiny aspect of the creation is just as useless as "self-importance" imo. Its basically "self-unimportance". I choose neither - neutral.

My basic understanding of detriment to the universe is very complex to explain but a very simple idea.

I see everyone else as me. But the way that I use the word "me" isn't the same as how people usually use it, it has a different definition which I will explain. I have to use some examples to get this across:

Imagine that you went back in time, and met yourself. The general idea of "me", is that this person you meet is "you". One and the same. Lets say you never go back to your time again. You live your life, as your past self also lives his life. Eventually, you won't be saying that other person is you, I can almost guarantee that. And yet, they ARE you!! You know its you, when you came back in time, you saw your past self doing exactly what you remember doing, with the same mindset, looking exactly the same, etc. Therefore, the meaning of the word "me" has a subjective and objective meaning. Everyone says they are "me" and yet, everyone is different. The differences are subjective, IMO (in my opinion).

You can't be two people at once, yet you also can. It goes deeper than this, if you think about what that means. This is not solophism... this is the idea that part of us is the same, and part of us is different. We identify with the part that is different, where it seperates - the subjective part. The objective part is not "seperateness".

I can't prove this to you - what I mean is, the proof is right under everyone's nose already, but they choose not to see it. The proof is there. But if you have chosen not to see it, there is no way I can make you (nor would I want to). However it could be that you know exactly what I am talking about.

How does this tie in with detriment to the universe, entropy, etc? It depends on how you define the word "universe" I think. IMO the universe is myself and others (others being the subjective view of "me"). The objective view of "me" cannot be hurt, it can't die, nothing can harm it at all. But, that is not where entropy exists, and it can't even touch it - entropy doesn't exist in objective reality, entropy is subjective, or so I think.

Effects on people can be detrimental, effects on planets, I mean, just look at it. Its happening now. Your house is falling down, your computer is melting and wearing out, your family and friends are turning to dust. Not only that, but the entropy spreads into people's minds. Your mind is crumbling, it is dying, like everything else (ok maybe its not... I don't know what your mind is like). I think that the representation for that is, in the mind, is stupidity.

Stupidity is detriment to the universe. It enables entropy, it watches as it all crumbles, saying "its not crumbling". What is the point in the objective "me", if there is no subjectivity? IMO, subjectivity is creation (or "created"), but some creation, like a gun, isn't designed to be creative, its designed to halt creativity, and enable entropy. It destroys itself, guns are stupid. I think that no one really would want them if they knew what they were.

The bottom line is, for me: as it stands, what we know about the universe, is that its dying. The only chance there is for it, is life, to fight against entropy. It doesn't happen on its own, you can say that it does, but in the end, you don't know.

I think its like this - SOTT could just sit back, and say, we're not important, and just forget the whole thing. If the universe (yourself and others) will be fine, then whats the point? Why not just shut it all down?

Maybe I am wrong, but I won't be convinced of that until I see hard proof that not working for self and others isn't detrimental to the universe. To me, its like that until its proven otherwise.

 

[Ben]

Perhaps this quote from Gurdjieff will help clarify the point I was trying to make.

We must remember that the ray of creation... is like a branch of a tree. ... Growth depends on organic life on earth. ...If organic life is arrested in its development, in its evolution, and fails to respond to the demands made upon it, the branch may wither. This must be remembered.

To this ray of creation, exactly the same possibility of development and growth has been given as is given to each separate branch of a big tree. But the accomplishment of this growth is not at all guaranteed. It depends upon the harmonious and right action of its own tissues.

Organic life on earth is a complex phenomenon in which the separate parts depend upon one another. General growth is possible only on the condition that the 'end of the branch' grows. Or, speaking more precisely, there are in organic life tissues which are evolving, and there are tissues which serve as food and medium for those which are evolving. Then there are evolving cells within the evolving tissues, and cells which serve as food and medium for those which are evolving. In each separate evolving cell there are evolving parts and there are parts which serve as food for those which are evolving. But always and in everything it must be remembered that evolution is never guaranteed, it is possible only and it can stop at any moment and in any place.

The evolving part of organic life on earth is humanity. If humanity does not evolve it means that the evolution of organic life will stop and this, in its turn will cause the growth of our ray of creation to stop.

At the same time if humanity ceases to evolve it becomes useless from the point of view of the aims for which it was created and as such it may be destroyed. In this way the cessation of evolution may mean the destruction of humanity.

We have no clues from which we are able to tell in what period of planetary evolution we exist. We cannot know this but we should bear in mind that the number of possibilities is never infinite.

At the same time in examining the life of humanity as we know it historically we are bound to acknowledge that humanity is moving in a circle. It one century it destroys everything it creates in another and the progress in mechanical things of the past hundred years has proceeded at the cost of losing many other things which perhaps were much more important for it.

Speaking in general there is every reason to think and to assert that humanity is at a standstill, and from a standstill there is a straight path to downfall and degeneration.

A standstill means that a process has become balanced. The appearance of any one quality immediately evokes the appearance of another quality opposed to it. The growth of knowledge in one domain evokes the growth of ignorance in another; refinement on the one hand evokes vulgarity on the other; freedom in one connection evokes slavery in another; the disappearance of some superstitions evokes the appearance and growth of others; and so on.

A balanced process proceeding in a certain way cannot be changed at any moment it is desired. It can be changed and set on a new path only at certain 'crossroads.' In between the crossroads nothing can be done.

At the same time if a process passes by a crossroad and nothing happens, nothing is done, then nothing can be done afterwards and the process will contineu and develop according to mechanical laws; and even if the people taking part in this process foresee the inevitable destruction of everything, they will be unable to do anything.

I repeat that something can be done only at certain moments which I have just called 'crossroades' and which in octaves, we have called the 'intervals.'

So yes I agree that the choice facing us, what we DO is very important to us and perhaps much much more than us - but it is not essential to the balance of the whole of creation for us to evolve, just our little branch.

 

[Russ]

Hmm, for some reason that sounds kind of optimistic to me - do we know if this is actually true?

 

[Pierre]

what we DO is very important to us and perhaps much much more than us - but it is not essential to the balance of the whole of creation for us to evolve, just our little branch.

I agree with this analogy. The universe is like a tree. Like any living entity, all its components are interrelated and interdependant.

From the smallest branch can widespread the biggest diseases in the whole tree.

On the other side, this smallest branch might be the only one in contact with sunrays and then being the one that keeps the whole tree alive.

 

[Ben]

On the other side, this smallest branch might be the only one in contact with sunrays and then being the one that keep the whole tree alive.

Very nice analogy. Many channeled sources, (however, obviously many of these are disinformation) including Marciniak's Pleiadeans talk about the massive importance of the fate of Earth to creation. Who knows for sure? All I know is that free will means freedom of choice, and knowledge of the Universe increases that free will. Like many people here I recognise something of 'high order' knowledge in the systems explicated by Gurdjieff, Ouspensky and Mouravieff, but I don't think they understood as much about certain aspects of creation as some of the people here.

 

[Justin]

Better put Mouravieff on the list. Also MAJORLY important: "Trapped in the Mirror," "The Mask of Sanity," "The Sociopath Next Door," "In Sheep's Clothing," "Unholy Hungers," and of course, Ponerology and Secret History.

This is a bit off-topic, so I apologize.

Is it a right assumption that one should have read the above works before applying to QFS?

In addition to The Wave, Adventure Series, the material from the Cass site, and "In Search of the Miraculous," would the literary works below be useful or essential as preparation for applying to QFS?

All of Gurdjieff's books
"The Active Side of Infinity" - Castaneda ( perhaps all of Castaneda's books? )
"The Dwelling of the Philosophers" - Fulcanelli
"The Sufi Path of Knowledge" - Chittick
"Commentaries" - Maurice Nicole

Perhaps one should have read all of these and more? Any comments or additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :)

 

[Russ]

Justin, I think the QFS will e-mail/contact you when they think you are ready, I don't think you need to apply, but just participate on the forum/casschat etc. and you will be noticed.

On another note, with the tree analogy - I would refer to it as more of a web. If you see our "branch" of creation as part of this web, you can see how its "attached" to all other parts (or branches) of the web. If you remove it, the parts that it connects to have nothing to connect to.

In this way, either it dies, and everything collapses around it, or it doesn't ever die.

So, from this I can say that "most" detriment, is not true detriment, but simply another part of the web that keeps it all held together, as much as anything else does.

So true detriment, imo, comes down to how you SEE. To be any other way than to work for yourself and others as they are all equally important, is detrimental to your density of perception. Like you said STS does not make it past 5D.

Its hard to explain, but, does that make sense?

 

[Cyre2067]

Heh Just an update, id post a new one but figured sticking in on the end here made more sense.

This last weekend i went to canada. It was great. Met new people, tossed into a new situation, lots of driving (toronto-philly is about 8 hours, without traffic), only one problem. When i came back and got back into my normal routine, i felt off.

How to describe this feeling... basically i felt like i didn't belong where i was. Perhaps this is further indication the matrix is successfully deriding me from my "destiny", however if it is im not "getting it" on how to stop it.

I get i need to read more, that much i've gotten used to, but no matter how i try to insert the reading into my life, i get sidetracked. Sure ill eat a book or two a month or so, but then ill go through down periods where i want to do something else, weither it be hang with friends or play video games. Both are distractions the matrix offers, but alas i cannot avoid them. Some part of me wants to, but i find the general law too compelling, to able to make justifications in my mind. Its seriously annoying, i feel that this battle inside me could be potentially damaging to my mind, then again these fears are just that, and we all know what part of us instigates the fear response.

I've cut down on my addiction, which im very proud of, but i can't cut it out completely. Its just not practical, not in my current setting, too many vectors aim me back towards it and without more solidified will im powerless.

Im continually looking forward to trippin over to europe, but im not sure what will happen. I plan to search for employment while there, but im not counting on it. My parents keep guilting me into trippin with someone, but no one i know can afford to go, and besides, bringing someone keeps you in that familiar state, i wish to be unleashed so to speak, but i could never explain that to them.

With regard to my intitial list, i've been good at keeping some, and i've moderated the others. The list was too static anyway, and if there's one thing i've learned its that sticking to "rules" why under the general law is impossible.

So that's the update, no one ever said this was gonna be easy.

 

[Art]

Justin, I think the QFS will e-mail/contact you when they think you are ready, I don't think you need to apply, but just participate on the forum/casschat etc. and you will be noticed.

Check the paragraph before the last here:
http://www.quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_apply.htm