Planning and saving up for our retirement - is there any point?

[Ant22]

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about old age and end-of-life arrangements, like pension plans and savings, and I'm curious about how others here are approaching retirement - if at all. Do you rely on workplace pensions? Invest? Count on a state pension? Or just do nothing because it’s all going down the drain? I thought I’d ask here, as our decisions are influenced by different factors than the average person.

I'm feeling a little stuck and unable to decide what to do. If it wasn't for what I know due to being on this forum I probably would be fairly comfortable. Here in the UK employers contribute a percentage of our salaries towards our pension - unless someone opts out. The minimum employee contribution is 5% and the minimum employer contribution is 3%. So by default the minimum amount of money saved towards one's pension is 8%. My employer offers up to 10% employee contribution that is matched by 12% employer contribution and had I not known where we are headed towards I would have upped my contributions to the max to benefit from that fat employer match and thought that life ahead wasn't looking entirely bad.

Currently, my contributions are at the minimum 5%, but it still amounts to a couple of hundred pounds taken from my salary each month - not a fortune, but it adds up. Recently, I’ve been wondering if I should redirect these funds (and possibly my savings too) into something smarter, but I haven’t come up with a better option.

Pension pots have underperformed for years, and with the economy’s direction, they are teetering on the edge - just like the rest of the market. So it's hard not to feel like I'm throwing that money away. But at the same time a part of me feels hesitant opt out. In my case it's only 5% of my own money, matched by my employer's 7% (they offer enhanced contributions), which kind of feels like an insurance policy in case the world doesn't go down the drain before I retire. I'm 41 so there's still a long while to go.

Investing seems like a smart move, but while I’m financially comfortable, I’m not wealthy enough to invest in anything that could reliably sustain me in old age. I've been considering buying a rental property in my home country, but that would require a hefty deposit (which would mean investing a chunk of my savings), and I'm most likely risking losing both the property and the deposit when the market crashes and I can't keep up with the mortgage payments anymore.

These are just a few thoughts that I have about this topic and I'm really curious what others think about it and how you approach it.

 

[SOTTREADER]

I'm in a similar boat - the way I see it, the smart move is to save for your retirement when you are in steady employment. Whilst I'm no where near retirement, with each passing year, the more I start to worry about it. So I decided to increase my pensions contributions each year for the foreseeable future.

Wages I don't think give one enough disposable income to really do anything meaningful e.g. invest into second or third homes. I suppose not unless you earn some serious money even after tax... if you are lucky enough to come into a lump sum some other way, e.g. inheritance or gifted, then the smart move is to make that work for you somehow e.g. by getting a property to rent out or something like that. You can probably also seek input from a financial adviser if you've got money lying around that you think worth investing somehow/somewhere.

Ultimately though, I think if you have options you should look into doing something. Whilst we know the situation in the world, we can't be making careless long-term decisions assuming the world will cease to exist in 10, 15, 20 or 30 years. If the whole system goes down, you still haven't lost, everyone's lost so who cares! If the system doesn't go down and we still have to survive in it, at least you'll have made some moves decades earlier to ensure you can retire and not necessarily have to worry about heating, food and housing.

 

[SOTTREADER]

Having written the above, I should say that there isn't one solution that is right for everyone. All I know is the smart move is to secure today, AND tomorrow.

Not only in terms of your financial wellbeing, but your general/physical wellbeing. If you do the right things today, you'll see benefits stretch themselves out deep into the future.

I think the not smart move is to only live for today. One can always argue that you may not be around tomorrow which to me is a weak argument unless you've got like some terminal illness or something like that.

 

[meadow_wind]

I can't answer directly to your question, but I am interested in this topic.
The only input I can add is that many variables are, and will always be, beyond our control, no matter how much planning we do, which is stressful and frightening. That’s why I believe we should invest not only in the financial realm but also in human resources, because in the end, strength lies in unity or "united we stand, divided we fall."

 

[Beau]

So it's hard not to feel like I'm throwing that money away. But at the same time a part of me feels hesitant opt out. In my case it's only 5% of my own money, matched by my employer's 7% (they offer enhanced contributions), which kind of feels like an insurance policy in case the world doesn't go down the drain before I retire. I'm 41 so there's still a long while to go.

I would keep doing it. It's not a huge amount for each check, but it adds up. Sure there's no guarantee it'll be there in 20+ years, but there's no guarantees in life. Better to have a little nest egg just in case, and a bit of a message to the universe that you have faith in it.

 

[Ursus Minor]

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about old age and end-of-life arrangements, like pension plans and savings, and I'm curious about how others here are approaching retirement - if at all. Do you rely on workplace pensions? Invest? Count on a state pension? Or just do nothing because it’s all going down the drain? I thought I’d ask here, as our decisions are influenced by different factors than the average person.

Thank you for bringing this up, Ant22. With the advent of The Wave, and our general understanding that 3D is drawing to a close I must admit I have been neglecting the possibility that it could be a drawn-out process.

As our 3D realm is waning and societies probably self-destructing things like pension plans have not crossed my mind lately, but I may be a pessimist.

Investing seems like a smart move, but while I’m financially comfortable, I’m not wealthy enough to invest in anything that could reliably sustain me in old age. I've been considering buying a rental property in my home country, but that would require a hefty deposit (which would mean investing a chunk of my savings), and I'm most likely risking losing both the property and the deposit when the market crashes and I can't keep up with the mortgage payments anymore.

Investing nowadays is all about opting out of the financial system, and buying property in the middle of a real estate bubble probably isn't. That leaves us with precious metals and bitcoin (which I personally have not much trust in, but I may be clueless on the subject).

It was after the 2008 banking crisis as financial advisors started advertising precious metals when I realized that I had to get "out of the system", but admittedly gold prices then where only a third of what they are now.

Navigating a way through our future (especially the financial one) will definitely be a trick and a half.

 

[Yupo]

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Invest in your health. Be sensible in spending choices. Anytime an employer will contribute to your retirement, take it!
I've heard that annuities are not a good deal.
Maybe has been dumb, but I've stayed away from speculative things like the stock market. I was unaffected by all that 2008 and similar stuff.
Precious metals: I look for and occasionally find some at yard sales and thrifts (since I go to these anyway) at a fraction of their actual value.
It is so hard to predict what/when is coming. I didn't think Social Security would still be a thing when I reached age 65, and now I'm on it. I thought the government would grab IRA funds to bail out SS, so I stopped putting so much into that a while back. :(
For me, it is a working retirement. I've got my health and a decent job, no debts, so I am extremely fortunate and very thankful.
Main thing is to avoid debt in retirement.
Try to live somewhere that won't cost too much in taxes and energy use.

 

[nicklebleu]

I think what most don’t really realise is the power of compound interest (at just 2% interest your principal doubles in less than 40 years; at 5% it doubles in about 14 years). Sure, there are many problems with that - inflation, long-term economic uncertainty, major crashes, a change in financial law and practices, CBDCs etc.

But one of the maxims I follow is the old saying of Francis of Assisi: “Even if i knew the world would end tomorrow, I would still plant tree today”. Because the future is open.

In todays world, and at your age, I would set aside 2% of every paycheck and invest it - probably one of the best investments now would be PHYSICAL silver, maybe in coins or bullion (stay away from paper silver like ETFs). Later in life you will need to generate income, so you will have to invest in the stock market to generate cash flow. But where you are now, a tangible commodity would seem to make sense the most.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Puma]

I am pessimistic. I think the plans that each person makes will depend on his or her age. If your age is around 60+ you certainly have the opportunity for a pension and it will be within your plans to get the best benefits for the rest of your life. If you are between 20 and 50 years old the best investment you can make is first in your health and then in real estate where you can even form a community or become independent or have food security because possibly everything will collapse within the next 5 years.

Enjoy the present and plan as much as possible for a future where money is worth zero.​

 

[daddycat]

I've been contributing the annual maximum to US retirement accounts such as 401k and IRA since the covid vaccine mandates. I am also forced to contribute to a government pension system as well as Social Security retirement. I've obtained credit from banks and credit unions in the form of personal lines of credit and regular credit cards. I also participate in promotions such as open a new checking account and deposit $2,000 in order to receive free $300. I was lucky to buy a home after the 2008 housing crash with only a 3% down payment, and real estate has more than doubled since the crash.

I have no single plan. I participate in opportunities that I see. For the example of buying a home, at the time rent versus mortgage payments were about the same and the down payment was tiny, so it made sense to me to buy in a good neighborhood. Home prices had been going down for years and I accepted the risk that it would continue going down because I have to live somewhere and pay rent or mortgage either way. For the example of credit card and bank promotions, the free money became thousands then tens of thousands of dollars, which anyone in the US with good credit can have if only they were interested.

Money needs to be spent on needful things. I've been spending on overdue home repairs and improvements. When my old car broke down, I got a new car. I buy high quality meat. A lot of times the problem is not having enough money to pay for everything that is needed. When there is extra money, then it is an additional responsibility to use the money to make more money and to donate.

 

[NCfugee]

For what it's worth, I don't count on retiring. I intend on working until I keel over. I've been self-employed in a number of fields for most of the last 20 years, not earning a fortune, but enough to invest in a property which I bought for almost half its market value. My investment has been in myself, training myself in skills that only require me to be mentally sharp and that provide a sense of satisfaction, skills where life experience counts (principally mental health and well-being, in case you're asking, though I do have other skills in case I need a plan B). The idea is to tap into a developed world market, while living in a place where living expenses are more manageable. I don't have faith in governments (or should I say, the deep state) not collapsing the global economy at some point and making savings and retirement plans disappear in a puff of smoke. Besides, any significant inflation could make a fixed pension plan virtually worthless.

BTW, note that there seems to be a spike in 'futurists' warning of an economic collapse with bank accounts being inaccessible in the very near future (Clif High, for one, suggests we could see a financial catastrophe striking the US at the end of this month - we'll see soon enough, I guess). Invest in physical assets (precious metals are a good start), not pieces of paper. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

The key is keeping out of debt and keeping in good health. Good diet, regular exercise and a positive attitude (!) will help you keep your options open.

 

[Temperance]

Many eggs, many baskets. I've though about this a bunch over the years, sometimes pessimistically shortsighted and sometimes unrealistically optimistic, but I think now I fall somewhere in the middle, with some oscillating. The future is open, and we don't know what it will look like. We don't know if events will be global, or localized, within our lifetime.
Investing for the future can be in the form of tools, skills, community, assets and knowledge. I think it's great that your employer gives such a good match, and should definitely take advantage of it, even if not the full amount. Even better would be if you're able to select the funds that your contribution goes into, and to try to diversify that if possible between large, mid, and small market cap companies, across different industries, and across different regional markets/areas. You can also allocate part of your portfolio to tracking commodities which can help to dampen inflation. I'm not an expert by any means, but that's how I set up one of my accounts. The other account is through my job, which they don't contribute to, but it goes into a state fund and our union recently got total control over how its invested. That's the bigger of the two, and the other more of a backup for me.

I got lucky to find a house with land to buy right after the pandemic, before interest rates went up, though the market was high. A trade off was that my commute is now about an hour, but it was much cheaper to buy far from work. I view the land as a means to develop my skills in raising livestock and gardening, acquire tools and learn to fix and build, and slowly becoming more self reliant. A major part of my income and time goes towards that. Homesteading in general is a lot of work, but I'm learning a lot in the process. Seeds, tools, animals, all have potential means of income, potential exponential growth, and will be needed anyway if currency is devalued, but only if the knowledge is there. I have to stress here that learning to can and preserve and start stockpiling is a great place to start. Food storage is an asset, as is water storage, medical supplies, ammo, etc. Just start hoarding useful stuff haha

A plot of land away from the cities may not be a bad investment, and is usually cheaper.
A community that will mutually support itself is also extremely valuable. Try to learn a skill that requires your hands and may be needed if there's significant economic shifts, if you don't have one already. But I wouldn't do that until you have some months of food and water saved up, since localized events can happen which interrupt supply chains. So I would say continue with your investment through your job, and if you're able to pick up a second job, which teaches your a skill, and let's you have additional income for further investing in all the stuff above, that could be a way to go as well.

A mindset of detachment, while having faith for the future, is what has helped me worked towards putting eggs into all the baskets, which can be overwhelming at times. The anxiety of prepping did help me but it's not sustainable or healthy long term. Just my two cents.

 

[Altair]

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about old age and end-of-life arrangements, like pension plans and savings, and I'm curious about how others here are approaching retirement - if at all. Do you rely on workplace pensions? Invest? Count on a state pension? Or just do nothing because it’s all going down the drain? I thought I’d ask here, as our decisions are influenced by different factors than the average person.

I'm feeling a little stuck and unable to decide what to do. If it wasn't for what I know due to being on this forum I probably would be fairly comfortable. Here in the UK employers contribute a percentage of our salaries towards our pension - unless someone opts out. The minimum employee contribution is 5% and the minimum employer contribution is 3%. So by default the minimum amount of money saved towards one's pension is 8%. My employer offers up to 10% employee contribution that is matched by 12% employer contribution and had I not known where we are headed towards I would have upped my contributions to the max to benefit from that fat employer match and thought that life ahead wasn't looking entirely bad.

Currently, my contributions are at the minimum 5%, but it still amounts to a couple of hundred pounds taken from my salary each month - not a fortune, but it adds up. Recently, I’ve been wondering if I should redirect these funds (and possibly my savings too) into something smarter, but I haven’t come up with a better option.

Pension pots have underperformed for years, and with the economy’s direction, they are teetering on the edge - just like the rest of the market. So it's hard not to feel like I'm throwing that money away. But at the same time a part of me feels hesitant opt out. In my case it's only 5% of my own money, matched by my employer's 7% (they offer enhanced contributions), which kind of feels like an insurance policy in case the world doesn't go down the drain before I retire. I'm 41 so there's still a long while to go.

Investing seems like a smart move, but while I’m financially comfortable, I’m not wealthy enough to invest in anything that could reliably sustain me in old age. I've been considering buying a rental property in my home country, but that would require a hefty deposit (which would mean investing a chunk of my savings), and I'm most likely risking losing both the property and the deposit when the market crashes and I can't keep up with the mortgage payments anymore.

These are just a few thoughts that I have about this topic and I'm really curious what others think about it and how you approach it.

In Germany it's not possible to opt out. Otherwise, I would have done it years ago.

 

[nicklebleu]

In Germany it's not possible to opt out. Otherwise, I would have done it years ago.

Altair raises an important point here - self-managed superannuation/ retirement fund.

In certain countries (Australia for instance), it is possible, and not that difficult or expensive to run your own ‘pension fund’ - you can invest in pretty much whatever you want (with some limitations).

So if in your country there is a possibility to get the money out of a commercial or state-run fund, that is certainly something to think about.

 

[Carl]

This is a good question.

One thing to consider is that the old social contract in the West has been fundamentally broken in recent years. By that I mean the deal whereby you work, pay your taxes, and in return the government will generally let you live, build wealth and trust in a pension and retire.

With the lockdowns everything changed. They came after everyone personally, and started the economic demolition in earnest. Then we've had infinity migration and infinity money printing, all while shutting down energy independence and food independence.

Birthrates continue to plummet, with fewer at the bottom able to sustain the pyramid scheme. Those on the younger side are riddled with chronic disease and mental health issues from all the , and from all the toxins physical, social and spiritual. Above all else, the global position of power has shifted, and the fall of the west is accelerating.

Nothing gets built anymore (apart from windmills), the people are tired, and corruption at the top is ever more blatant as the cancer destroys the host. The deep state actively blows stuff up to accelerate this whole process.

We've never had a rosy view of the future here, and maybe some of us are surprised because we expected it all to end sooner. However we may suffer from boiling frog syndrome, and not recognise just how crazy the acceleration has been in the past 5 years. Acceleration downwards, that is. Stuff happens slowly at first, and then all at once.

So I'd just say, don't expect your pension to be there in the end. Remember how quickly reality can change, stay with the program and don't hold on to the past. More than anything else, be psychologically prepared.