Planning and saving up for our retirement - is there any point?

[Kosma]

Altair raises an important point here - self-managed superannuation/ retirement fund.

In certain countries (Australia for instance), it is possible, and not that difficult or expensive to run your own ‘pension fund’ - you can invest in pretty much whatever you want (with some limitations).

So if in your country there is a possibility to get the money out of a commercial or state-run fund, that is certainly something to think about.

I also prefer to minimize the share of savings in state pension funds, especially if there is no opt out option. In Poland there is one quite easy and decent way of investing: 10year government bonds - they protect you from inflation and one can withdraw funds anytime and preserve earned interest - conditions are better then bank deposits. And so when enough funds are accumulated there perhaps it would we be good option to buy land and/or property if one doesn't have such living center.
I consider investing in physical assets to be rather a small percentage of portfoliio - storing large amount of precious metals is a security challenge, hoarding other things take space, time and logistics.

 

[adam7117]

Ant22, this comes up once in a while, and the answer remains the same. Yes, you should look after yourself and your own future. Which means study, invest, pursue new business and employment opportunities - in other words, live your life to the fullest, without fear. When you are strong, happy and financially well off, you can help others.

The future is not fixed, and neither are any specific outcomes. Anything and nothing could happen - which means you must hedge your bets, my dear.

Say, none of the discussed probable outcomes materialised today, tomorrow, or in 20 years. As you face poverty or financial strife in retirement, would you feel cheated - or bitter, about missing out in life because of your experience here? Probably, yes.

So, don't be that person and bravely do something for your own growth. Which in turn helps the Universe grow, and may even help others grow later on.

 

[Uperios]

I have the impression/feeling that in the next 20 years the pension system will be completely different or not even functional.
When I worked on commercial vessels I was paid better that in my country (not paying taxes, due to the fact that I worked for companies using flags of convenience) BUT I didn't have social security benefits.
So I was planning to invest in rental proprieties (especially in studios for rentals).

I quit over 1 ago that job and I have one close to my home (for the state: with pensions contributions; but over 45% of all salary being taxed: health contributions and others included; not able to opt out).
If the system will continue more or less in this form: the pension will be decent (if you are not in debt, have good health and grow some of your food).

Even I have the feeling as stated at the beginning, I still find myself @Ant22
thinking about retirement.
As I write this the first priority is health, a property in which to "enjoy the show" (with ability to grow food; tools for repairs and extra income, in my case for doing handyman work); and if will make sense a studio to buy for renting (as I view it: cheaper means of housing will be in demand).

 

[SOTTREADER]

It should also be said that at least in the UK, there are various laws and regulations governing how workplace pension schemes are run. In the same way you have various rules managing how other financial markets are managed is the same way you have it for pensions. Of course pensions are ultimately invested on behalf of savers and so if there's a catastrophic collapse in financial markets, this will impact pension schemes and so people can lose money but ultimately over decades investments do produce net positive returns on average. Without the growth from investments, people wouldn't have enough pension so it's all underpinned by it all growing whilst you are working. Don't also forget that when you actually retire the income is essentially guaranteed to a degree until you die.

So unless one is pinning their hopes on the global economic system collapsing and never recovering, then you are making a bet not to save for retirement on an incorrect premise. Even assuming Western countries suffer terminal economic decline, the investments in pension schemes will simply be directed to areas of the global economy producing net positive returns.

It's different though when you talk about the state pension (as opposed to workplace pensions) because that's government driven and workers now are paying for current state pensions for retirees. Then when "we" retire, the social contract is that workers then will pay for our state pension. I think this is where things become a bit uncertain because stuff like population growth starts to factor into the equation including that there is no one there governing how governments spend taxes. So yes, the government could conceivably put a squeeze on you in retirement by not paying you enough state pension.

This is why I think you shouldn't just rely on state pension for retirement. It's not going to be enough!

A great state pension betrayal is now inevitable

Britain is on course to become a much tougher place to be old

www.telegraph.co.uk

One other thing worth mentioning is I believe that the real thing that will likely catch out pensioners in future is that we simply need to save much more whilst working to have enough income in retirement, especially when you consider the uncertainty around the security guarantee of the state pension. The issue is that individually, people aren't saving enough and don't have other "side" investments to make up the shortfall. So that's why a lot of governments are making it more difficult for people to not save into their work pensions - you really have to go out of your way to not save. They are also doing things like looking to introduce tools to allow people to locate all the various pensions they have as most people change jobs every few years it's quite common for people to simply lose track of the various pots they have.

Within the private sector in the UK, there's also been a drive to innovate "pension" because it's obvious there is a problem. So my guess is that how it all looks in future will be subject to various innovations and one would hope that a viable solution will eventually be found to ensure people can retire securely.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about old age and end-of-life arrangements, like pension plans and savings, and I'm curious about how others here are approaching retirement

I wish I had contributed more than the 6% my company's pension plan matched, but back when i first started working at a clerical job at 19, I needed my entire paycheck just to live. It was only in later years was I even able to contribute anything to it at all. Since I was laid off after being on disability with a vision problem, I needed to take my pension almost 10 years early because I wasn't able to work. So, the amount I receive now is rather small. With my partner being unable to work due to cancer, that pension and social security payments constitute our monthly incomes, so if that boat is rocked, we're screwed.

Our house is almost 20 years old, and we are now in the stage where all the original appliances, carpet, and what not are needing to be replaced. I have some small savings but am loath to tap into them in case they are needed in the future. I did invest in gold coins years ago, when I was able to purchase them at around $425 each. Over the years, I cashed in most of them for the down payment on my house and a car, and I think I have about 10 left. I could kick myself for not waiting, as the spot price of gold now is about $2874! I also bought some silver but it has not increased in value more than $10 since I bought it, at the same time as the gold. Hopefully, it will go up.

This past year I did try and become smarter with my savings. They were just sitting in money market accounts making about 0.2% in interest as I was loath to play the stock market and risk losing it. I moved some money around into short-term CDs with higher rates, and the result was I made more interest last year, which now means I owe Federal income tax, where before I always got a small refund.

So, I don't know what the future will hold by the time you are at retirement age, or even if we all have that much time left. I'd say keep saving, buy what you need now, if you find some good investment opportunities, go for them, and hope for the best. That's probably not much help though.

 

[Petar]

Hi Ant 22,
This is certainly one of the questions you have to ask yourself quite often.

Having been a member of this forum for a few years now, I can't help but feel that there are not many reasons to be optimistic about the future of our civilization.

Enjoy the present and plan as much as possible for a future where money is worth zero.

I totally agree with Puma, but I have to add that we have to stay calm and not go crazy about the madness that's going on around us.
In your place I wouldn't change anything if it doesn't make a big difference to you financially in the short term, invest in the things you do, the things you are passionate about.
As for our future, we'll have to wait and see, but chances are we won't be able to live the way we used to sooner rather than later.
My two cents...

 

[Wandering Star]

A wise person was asked:

What would you do if you knew you were going to die tomorrow?

He replied, "Carry on with what I was doing!"

Here we are aware of many possibilities that most people don't consider, so even knowing that we are going to die tomorrow, we can continue with what we were doing, because...

It seems that the future is fluid and open, according to what someone wise somewhere has said.

 

[ryu]

In France, a part of your salary goes to retirement funds and to social security automatically. In decades prior it was enough, but these last years, the government have been pushing the retirement age to 62, then 64... I read that the EU plans to make it to 70. Added to that, the social security consider less and less things as essential, so people have to pay more and more by themselves, especially if they want good quality service.

I'm not able to invest in property for the moment, so I focus on maintaning myself healthy, buy good quality food etc. I don't expect society to be the same in 30 years, I don't know if there will be such a thing as retirement, so I want to be able to work as long as possible. Our monetary system is shaky and something will inevitably give in before I reach retirement age.

 

[Breo]

Joe said:

I know there have been a lot of false alarms on this, but I think this time, it really is a good time to buy gold or silver.

This is what Joe posted in the "Experience with buying gold?" thread a few days ago. Maybe this helpful, something to consider for you, @Ant22, within your overall planning approach.

I am in retirement and my state plan is not enough to cover my basic costs, so I am learning to deal with this situation in a positive and pragmatic way myself :)

Furtheron Joe mentions another option, with an example for the UK:

Joe said:
For the shorter term you can open a goldmoney acct. or similar (Bullionvault in the UK for e.g.) and not receive physical silver but instead invest in it.

 

[Jono]

Instead of a pension I prioritise overpaying our mortgage to reduce the interest we pay and to have the house as a paid off asset in the future. Any savings I get after that will go into gold and silver. My theory is that property and gold/silver will outperform cash inflation and whatever a pension will be worth when I retire.

 

[Abats]

I sometimes think about this too from time to time. Even though retirement depends on many factors, I don't plan anything in terms of savings since currency may very well have no value in a few years. Besides, I must admit that I feel quite distant from this matter because I still have at least 35 years of work ahead of me if I were to count on a full-rate pension. Economic parameters are complicated to take into account because we are constantly riding a wave of uncertainty, whether in the near or distant future. In Europe, the euro continues to depreciate, so you need more of it to get exactly the same thing when making purchases. Given what's happening, I strongly believe that this currency will no longer exist when the fall of the European Union eventually occurs, and perhaps member states will return to their original currencies (with massive devaluation as a consequence).

To add to what Ryu said, pensions in France are decreasing proportionally even if you've worked 40 years of your life. On top of that, the government is trying to take control of pension funds, which could mean that one day they might simply no longer be paid. Given this outlook and to counteract all of this, I had gradually invested in gold and silver coins, even though it's not really worth it in France due to the purchase tax and capital gains tax. However, in the end, I still believe it remains the safest option compared to fiat currency, which is nothing more than paper.

Due to my further move to Russia, I sold those coins to have liquidity to finance my move and my business project, but also because you're taxed at 30% on precious metals if you cross the border with them. As a side note, I had an unpleasant surprise at the sales office last week—a new law has been passed where, when selling, you must provide detailed proof of the origin of the metals and justify it (which seems normal and was already in place). But now, they also asked me why I was selling my coins and what I was going to do with the funds I obtained! And all of this has to be signed along with providing your personal details. The funniest part was reading a line that, if I recall correctly, said something like: "The sale of these precious metals exposes me to risks as a known political figure." Oh, and I almost forgot—they also asked for my most recent tax assessment.

All of this to say that, no matter what your options are, there is a growing effort to control all the funds you try to "save for your future," which leads me to believe that the best strategy is to diversify your portfolio. That way, if one part doesn’t work out, another portion of your savings might have grown instead.

 

[axj]

A lot will depend on how successful "they" are at implementing their total control slavery system and how much real pushback they get.

Their plan so far in the West seems to be to impoverish (and make sick) as many people as possible to then introduce a "universal basic income", which will replace retirement payments as well. The problem is that they want the UBI to be the trojan horse to get people to accept the digital total control system.

My personal solution that may not be the best one for everyone is to leave the West, have some farmland (eg. food forest) and gain farming skills, as well as being diversified in gold, silver and some other investments.

 

[LQB]

On the gold/silver market, here is a good, late update on the current status:

Joe's suggestion of a Goldmoney account in silver might be a very good one. Silver has lagged gold, but it's just a matter of time. Imo, financial powers are more concerned with suppressing silver so when they let go the reins it will slingshot upwards.

 

[Yupo]

Instead of a pension I prioritise overpaying our mortgage to reduce the interest we pay and to have the house as a paid off asset in the future. Any savings I get after that will go into gold and silver. My theory is that property and gold/silver will outperform cash inflation and whatever a pension will be worth when I retire.

I was of like mind. I looked for houses that I could afford to double the mortgage payments on, so they were paid off pretty fast. And unlike me, my kids did not begin adulthood with college debt. I think they were embarrassed by my thrifty ways, but eventually appreciated graduating without debt.

 

[Cosmos]

Besides government implemented/enforced retirement schemes (which I wouldn’t solely rely on) I think everyone should seriously consider saving/investing in as much real assets as possible. Assets you have as much control over as possible and are also as stable and lucrative over the long term as possible.

The following are in my opinion the most important investments you can make in that regard:

1= Gold (at least a large percentage, increasing the amount steadily over time and keep it for as long as possible)

2= Properties/Housing/real estate (many ways in which you can save and generate stable income and yields there)

3= Direct investments into creating and/or being a part of small to middle sized companies (as a shareholder for example) preferably into markets/products that promise good returns, not only in the short term.

Generally I try to keep as little money in the bank as possible and instead invest/save that money in some or all the ways mentioned above.